Might and Magic X

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Tress
Raider
Raider
Posts: 797
Joined: 05 Dec 2007

Postby Tress » Jul 6 2013, 17:58

I think that "presumably" was either a foreshadowing or a commentary on the events of Might and Magic 8 (depending on when it was written). Let's not forget that it was the Ancients who set Escaton loose upon Enroth. Not a benevolent course of action.


Well I wouldnt say that creating weapon like Estacon would suggest that ancients are bad to some degree. Unless they have extremely naive personalities( which is only present for some comic superheroes like superman), creating such weapon is normal method of waging war. First of all , weapon is unleashed only at point when ancients believed that planet is doomed anyway due to infestation,(considering threat, there is no way they could individually try to save each and every planet) second of all, ancient programed him with sort of compassion which ultimately caused him to override his main protocols, even if not directly. If they would be sociopathic race , which wouldn't care, their AI's (ones that aren't totally went crazy like some particular Terra guardian) wouldn't be with built in compassion towards people, after all creators create personalities after themselves. If they would think compassion is not essential and human life is expendable, Estacon wouldn't try to save anything, nor Corak would be so nice to natives. Those qualities would be removed as flaws in first place.

User avatar
Xfing
Raider
Raider
Posts: 771
Joined: 04 Jul 2011

Postby Xfing » Jul 7 2013, 10:16

I didn't say they were bad. They were just practical, or simply forced to take drastic measures. Not benevolent doesn't mean malevolent, more like left without a choice in this case.

User avatar
Konfuzius
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 125
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Postby Konfuzius » Jul 7 2013, 21:24

Regarding the Sci-fi stuff I wouldn't be concerned too much, really. Sure, it was part of the experience but for the start it might be better not to do it (for the sake of introducing it to a new audience).

But I can imagine Sci-Fi elements returning eventually. Perhaps they will even introduce a fully sci-fi game like they made with Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon? ^^
So people familiar with original games will recognize the connection between the games and everybody else simply enjoys the game.

User avatar
XEL II
HoTA Crew
HoTA Crew
Posts: 945
Joined: 14 May 2008
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russian Federation

Postby XEL II » Jul 9 2013, 3:20

tress wrote:
I think that "presumably" was either a foreshadowing or a commentary on the events of Might and Magic 8 (depending on when it was written). Let's not forget that it was the Ancients who set Escaton loose upon Enroth. Not a benevolent course of action.


Well I wouldnt say that creating weapon like Estacon would suggest that ancients are bad to some degree. Unless they have extremely naive personalities( which is only present for some comic superheroes like superman), creating such weapon is normal method of waging war. First of all , weapon is unleashed only at point when ancients believed that planet is doomed anyway due to infestation,(considering threat, there is no way they could individually try to save each and every planet) second of all, ancient programed him with sort of compassion which ultimately caused him to override his main protocols, even if not directly. If they would be sociopathic race , which wouldn't care, their AI's (ones that aren't totally went crazy like some particular Terra guardian) wouldn't be with built in compassion towards people, after all creators create personalities after themselves. If they would think compassion is not essential and human life is expendable, Estacon wouldn't try to save anything, nor Corak would be so nice to natives. Those qualities would be removed as flaws in first place.

Another great point, just like GreatEmerald's.

BTW, it's "Escaton", not "Estacon". The Destroyer's name is a reference to the term "eschaton", which has quite a fitting meaning, considering what would have happened to Enroth as the natives know it if the Journeyman failed to stop the Convocation of Cataclysm.
Last edited by XEL II on Jul 12 2013, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

User avatar
Xfing
Raider
Raider
Posts: 771
Joined: 04 Jul 2011

Postby Xfing » Jul 11 2013, 12:19

Yeah, "eschatology" is called that for a reason :D

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3330
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Jul 15 2013, 13:36

Konfuzius wrote:Regarding the Sci-fi stuff I wouldn't be concerned too much, really. Sure, it was part of the experience but for the start it might be better not to do it (for the sake of introducing it to a new audience).


And then have them cry foul once you do try to introduce it? NWC had a much better chance to do so in HoMM3 than Ubisoft has now. No technology in MMH and no technology in MMX, how do you see them introducing it? No, they simply won't do that, ever.

Imryll
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 4
Joined: 22 Apr 2011

Postby Imryll » Aug 17 2013, 14:23

I'm reminded a lot of Betrayal in Antara, which utilized Betrayal at Krondor mechanics in a new setting--and was also largely the work of a single enthusiast. Many dismissed it, but I quite enjoyed it, particularly the innovations with the magic system. If MMX is fun and recaptures the "feel" of Might & Magic, I don't intend to let issues of fidelity to the orginals spoil my enjoyment.

User avatar
Marzhin
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Montreuil, France
Contact:

Postby Marzhin » Sep 4 2013, 11:40

By the way, we have a cool interview with Neal Hallford on the MMX Open Dev Blog, with many great anecdotes about his time working on Might & Magic III :)

https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/o ... l-hallford

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3330
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Sep 13 2013, 21:28

Marzhin wrote:By the way, we have a cool interview with Neal Hallford on the MMX Open Dev Blog, with many great anecdotes about his time working on Might & Magic III :)

https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/o ... l-hallford


Hah, that's pretty funny. "vibrating leather buddy rod of aids" is priceless :D And the items in MM3 are still pretty similarly wacky. Can't wait until I start its plythrough and get into making paperdolls for those crazy items :D

User avatar
Flodarien
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 55
Joined: 12 Feb 2012

Postby Flodarien » Sep 14 2013, 13:49

GreatEmerald wrote:Hah, that's pretty funny. "vibrating leather buddy rod of aids" is priceless :D And the items in MM3 are still pretty similarly wacky. Can't wait until I start its plythrough and get into making paperdolls for those crazy items :D


Just one thing. Leather Leather Armor. That is all.

User avatar
Ryder
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 298
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Ryder » Oct 15 2013, 7:58

Hey Marzhin, can I please ask why MMX doesnt have Might, Intellect, Personality, Endurance, Speed, Accuracy and Luck as skills?

You may remember from one of my previous comments that I am not a fan of H6, it is by far the worst of the series and what I've seen so far from MMX it will be the worst of it's series too.

It has got me absolutely dumbfounded that you, as a big fan, who has a say in what goes on in the game, can let go of some of the mechanics that has been in every single Might and Magic game before it. This game does not feel like a MM game to me. I have it sitting here on my pc and instead of playing it, I am playing Gates to Another World instead.

I'm hoping the final product will make me feel different about the game when it's released but I'm not holding my breath.

User avatar
tolich
Spectre
Spectre
Posts: 745
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Location: Minsk, Belarus

Postby tolich » Oct 15 2013, 8:22

Ryder wrote:Why MMX doesn't have Might, Intellect, Personality, Endurance, Speed, Accuracy and Luck as skills?
M.I.P.E.S.A.L. never were skills. They were vital statistics of characters. Don't mix up Might and Magic with the Heroes series.
Ryder wrote:the mechanics that has been in every single Might and Magic game before it.
But MMIX.

User avatar
Tress
Raider
Raider
Posts: 797
Joined: 05 Dec 2007

Postby Tress » Oct 15 2013, 9:48

Hey Marzhin, can I please ask why MMX doesnt have Might, Intellect, Personality, Endurance, Speed, Accuracy and Luck as skills?


Actually I once asked this, and main reason was that it is publishers decision to keep MM worlds mechanic more unified between various games/spinofs, same is reason for keeping various spell school to their profiles, like there various healing spell aligned to earth must be over time.

User avatar
Marzhin
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Montreuil, France
Contact:

Postby Marzhin » Oct 20 2013, 11:01

tress wrote:
Hey Marzhin, can I please ask why MMX doesnt have Might, Intellect, Personality, Endurance, Speed, Accuracy and Luck as skills?


Actually I once asked this, and main reason was that it is publishers decision to keep MM worlds mechanic more unified between various games/spinofs, same is reason for keeping various spell school to their profiles, like there various healing spell aligned to earth must be over time.


Yes, that's pretty much it.
Also there were some worries that the old system may have been a bit too close to Dungeons & Dragons, which might have been problematic (the current owners of D&D, Wizards of the Coast, are more controlling of their IP and rule set than TSR were back in the day).

User avatar
GrayFace
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1525
Joined: 29 Nov 2005

Postby GrayFace » Oct 20 2013, 20:58

Both reasons sound pretty crazy to me. :| I've yet to see how things actually work in the game though.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

User avatar
Marzhin
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Montreuil, France
Contact:

Postby Marzhin » Oct 21 2013, 9:51

GrayFace wrote:Both reasons sound pretty crazy to me. :|


Well, to give you an example we cannot call a monster a "Beholder" anymore because WotC put a copyright on it. :devious:

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3330
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Oct 21 2013, 15:31

Marzhin wrote:Well, to give you an example we cannot call a monster a "Beholder" anymore because WotC put a copyright on it. :devious:


Seriously? You can copyright things like that?..

User avatar
Marzhin
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Montreuil, France
Contact:

Postby Marzhin » Oct 22 2013, 7:37

GreatEmerald wrote:
Marzhin wrote:Well, to give you an example we cannot call a monster a "Beholder" anymore because WotC put a copyright on it. :devious:


Seriously? You can copyright things like that?..


Of course. You can be sure Lucasfilm has a trademark on Wookie, Ewok and Droid :)
There's a handful of D&D monsters that are now protected by copyright: beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, displacer beast, mind flayer, yuan-ti...

Of course some small studios will always continue to use them because they know they are too small to be on WotC's radar. Or they are Japanese, and don't care :) Ubisoft on the other hand...

User avatar
Tress
Raider
Raider
Posts: 797
Joined: 05 Dec 2007

Postby Tress » Oct 22 2013, 11:46

Of course. You can be sure Lucasfilm has a trademark on Wookie, Ewok and Droid smile
There's a handful of D&D monsters that are now protected by copyright: beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, displacer beast, mind flayer, yuan-ti...

Of course some small studios will always continue to use them because they know they are too small to be on WotC's radar. Or they are Japanese, and don't care smile Ubisoft on the other hand...


Must say IP protection laws and way they are enforced are really going over edge in modern world. Every little thing that in fact existed long ago is patented by some patent troll and soon it will be like in futuruama that we can only chose out of 2 names for our product since all other are taken. Sure IP must be protected to degree but I am sure that to extent that android derivative (droid) is claimed is pretty much nonsense. Anyway day will come when honest people will not sit by.... an no we haven't set a day yet. :(

Aside my rant regarding ip. I understand specific things like beholder or most other non generic stuff found in monster manual may cause problems with legal departments, but it really seemed odd when you clarified that for this reason stat system is changed. After all stat system in classic mm have almost no shared stat names, even if they somewhat overlap in meaning.
D&D/Classic mm
strength/might
dexterity/speed or accuracy.
constitution/endurance
intelligence/ intellect - okay this one somewhat overlaps, even though it bit different
Wisdom / personality
Charisma / Personality (somewhat , although it don't have same functionality)
* / Luck - no analogue here.

User avatar
Marzhin
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Montreuil, France
Contact:

Postby Marzhin » Oct 22 2013, 15:46

It's not just the name, it's the mechanics as a whole.
And Ubi's legal department's motto seems to be "in case of doubt, abstain from doing it".
I think they still have nightmares of the whole Heroes V/Warhammer thing.


Return to “Might and Magic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests