Alone in the universe?

[ThunderTitan]

To quote Douglas Adams: space is big. Space is big with a lot of places to go, and travelling space is really not so easy as to say "Engage" and scoot off among the stars.

Von Neumann probes dude...

And the equation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

The current estimate for the number of stars in our galaxy that have intelligent life is roughly 1000.

That's alot of civs.

One interesting thing is the huge difference between life and intelligent life. There have been advanced forms of life on this planet for hundreds of millions of years, but apparantly only one species that has even a slim chance of exploring space. The universe might be teeming with life, but earth might be one of but a few that has "intelligent" life.

This one might have something to do with 2 super-predators fighting for the same space. Remember the Neanderthals?

[Veldrynus]

I think, the appearance of high intelligence is not a neccessary and unavoidable step in the process of evolution. Therefore, intelligent life must be very rare in the universe. Even then, intelligence does not mean high technological level too.

[ThunderTitan]

I think, the appearance of high intelligence is not a neccessary and unavoidable step in the process of evolution.

The whole concept is about improvement and complexity... otherwise bacterias would have sufficed, on account of their adaptability.
I'd say iont is more likely to occur then not if evolution is all that is.

[Ethric]

The current estimate for the number of stars in our galaxy that have intelligent life is roughly 1000.

That's alot of civs.

You are of course aware that that equation is educated guesswork at best? Might be accurate, might be rubbish, impossible to say for the time being.

[Jolly Joker]

Albeit a cartoon punchline it fits:

"The surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, is that none of it has tried to contact us" - Calvin & Hobbes

[Corribus]

I agree with Ethric's first post on the subject, and I'll leave it at that. (now, how's that for brief?!)

[Kristo]

I find it incredibly arrogant to think that humans would be technologically interesting to a race capable of traveling between the stars. The farthest we've traveled is our own moon. If other races are aware of us, it's more than likely we're being ignored. We're no threat to the interstellar balance of power and have nothing worthwhile to trade.

Also, remember where we are in the galaxy - near the outer edge. Earth is a backwater planet of only 6 billion sentient beings. To use a GalCiv2 analogy, we're that class 1 planet in the corner, probably within some major civ's sphere of influence. He'll conquer it if he feels like it, and if someone else gets there first, it'll just culture-flip anyway.

[Gaidal Cain]

The whole concept is about improvement and complexity... otherwise bacterias would have sufficed, on account of their adaptability.
I'd say iont is more likely to occur then not if evolution is all that is.

No. If so, there'd probably have been some civilized race on earth before us. Intelligence on the level of wolves and dolphins seems pretty common, but humanoids are the only ones who seems to have gone far beyond that. The human brain is extremely expensive, biologically speaking- we need to spend several years growing up before being able to make it on our own, the brain take a lot of the energy we gain through eating, etc. Advanced intelligence is not at all an obvious way for evolution to take.

[Corribus]

No. If so, there'd probably have been some civilized race on earth before us. Intelligence on the level of wolves and dolphins seems pretty common, but humanoids are the only ones who seems to have gone far beyond that.

Well, to be fair, most of us haven't.

[Omega_Destroyer]

Albeit a cartoon punchline it fits:

"The surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, is that none of it has tried to contact us" - Calvin & Hobbes

Good ol' Calvin & Hobbes.

[ThunderTitan]

You are of course aware that that equation is educated guesswork at best? Might be accurate, might be rubbish, impossible to say for the time being.

Kinda like Occam's Razor.

No. If so, there'd probably have been some civilized race on earth before us.

Like Neanderthals? Plus, someone has to be first.

Advanced intelligence is not at all an obvious way for evolution to take.

You're right, the advantages are so outweighted by the energy cost.


Oh, and that thing about dolphins and wolves:

Some research shows that dolphins do exceptionally well in this aspect indicating very high intelligence, even surpassing the intelligence level of a chimpanzee, which is generally believed to be the highest amongst animals. Dolphins also seem to have mathematical skills, which is a highly abstract ability.

So that would be Dolphins and chimps.

[Gaidal Cain]

Like Neanderthals? Plus, someone has to be first.

No, like intelligent dinosaurs or something. Neanderthals is "just" another twig on the same branch as humans.

Advanced intelligence is not at all an obvious way for evolution to take.

You're right, the advantages are so outweighted by the energy cost.

Sigh. Intelligence has to start somewhere. Today, it's obvious that intelligence was a recipe for success. Back in Lucy's days, it wasn't as evident.

So that would be Dolphins and chimps.

You could add octopusses to the list as well, if you want. It wasn't meant to be exhaustive.

[Corribus]

Neanderthals is "just" another twig on the same branch as humans.

That's just a theory.

You could add octopusses to the list as well, if you want.

Yes, but is it octopusses, or octopi? That's the real question here, I think.

[ThunderTitan]

No, like intelligent dinosaurs or something. Neanderthals is "just" another twig on the same branch as humans.

So are apes... you said species, not genus.

And dinosaurs had a nasty run in with an E.L.E.

Sigh. Intelligence has to start somewhere. Today, it's obvious that intelligence was a recipe for success. Back in Lucy's days, it wasn't as evident.

Yes, ands evolution has hindsight...

Unless a Black Monolith gave us bigger brains it stands to reason that such a succesful trait would eventualy appear and stick around, given enough time.

As for why we're alone on the planet, same reason the Neanderthals are extinct, there can be only one...

Oh, and never forget that the current consensus is that all birds originate from a feathery reptile, all mammals from a rodent etc. So "high" intelligence (or in this case intelligence + tool use) starting at a single source isn't unusual at all.

[theLuckyDragon]

You could add octopusses to the list as well, if you want.

Yes, but is it octopusses, or octopi? That's the real question here, I think.

I'd say it depends on the context. In a less formal, less scientific context, the normal English plural could be safely used, as the word is a fairly common one in the language and has become naturalised. In a more scientific context, where people can be expected to know that the foreign plural of octopus is octopi, I believe one could safely use octopi.

Or you could use A. C. Clarke's octopodes instead. They're not the same thing, but still

[Gaidal Cain]

No, like intelligent dinosaurs or something. Neanderthals is "just" another twig on the same branch as humans.

So are apes... you said species, not genus.

Meh. Stamp collecting...

And dinosaurs had a nasty run in with an E.L.E.

At which point they'd been around for a couple of 100 millions of years.

Unless a Black Monolith gave us bigger brains it stands to reason that such a succesful trait would eventualy appear and stick around, given enough time.

And given the same time, there are likely to be gaint mutated whales as well...

Oh, and never forget that the current consensus is that all birds originate from a feathery reptile, all mammals from a rodent etc. So "high" intelligence (or in this case intelligence + tool use) starting at a single source isn't unusual at all.

Tool use is a good sign of intelligence, but it won't get you to the moon on its own. Use of tools has probably been around before, but the state at which humans are seems a much rarer thing.

[Pol]

Sigh. Intelligence has to start somewhere. Today, it's obvious that intelligence was a recipe for success. Back in Lucy's days, it wasn't as evident.

I would say that it was, guestion is to whom.

[ThunderTitan]

At which point they'd been around for a couple of 100 millions of years.

Yup, and it took another 60 for intel to show up. You're also forgeting that a species with intel like us might have averted disaster, or at least extinction, and we wouldn't exist.

And given the same time, there are likely to be gaint mutated whales as well...

Well whales are pretty big, and evolution is all about mutation....

Remember, evolution is about survival, intel is a positive trait for that.

The only way we're alone is if either life is a complete fluke or if it started here first for some reason and nobody catched up yet.

Tool use is a good sign of intelligence, but it won't get you to the moon on its own. Use of tools has probably been around before, but the state at which humans are seems a much rarer thing.

Intel + tool use, which is what makes us different from all the rest of the animals. And we didn't get here from the get-go.

Adn i alredy said why it's rare, we're a super-predator, there isn't room for another one (birds came from one ancestor, yet more then one species survived, why we eliminated all our almost as smart cousins).

[Metathron]

Albeit a cartoon punchline it fits:

"The surest sign that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, is that none of it has tried to contact us" - Calvin & Hobbes

Good ol' Calvin & Hobbes.

I was just skimming this thread, and at first I missed the "Calvin" part of that quote and thought: "Wow, was Thomas Hobbes ahead of his time or what?"

[Omega_Destroyer]

lol The man was a genius.