Are you really hyped?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Feb 15 2011, 18:42

I only played hotseat back then but remember well enough the possibilities, combat had less options and variety. Its only 'advantage' was possibility of more than one heroes on the battlefield.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Feb 15 2011, 21:27

More than one hero on the battlefield was a huge tactical advantage, allowing you to combine several spells in a turn, among other things. There was also the wonderful line of sight preventing shooters from attacking a hidden stack, simultaneous retaliation was also something that made a lot of sense to me, and so on and so forth.
Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Feb 15 2011, 23:58

Metathron wrote:More than one hero on the battlefield was a huge tactical advantage, allowing you to combine several spells in a turn, among other things. There was also the wonderful line of sight preventing shooters from attacking a hidden stack, simultaneous retaliation was also something that made a lot of sense to me, and so on and so forth.

QFT.

Elvin wrote:combat had less options and variety

Care to elaborate a bit more?
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Feb 16 2011, 10:31

It's simple really, let's take sylvan.

H4 one had no retaliation sprites, double attacking wolves, first striking tigers or elves, bliding unicorns or always retaliating griffins and absolutely amazing phoenixes or kinda nice faerie dragons.. Plus creature portal where the only choices seemed to be water elementals, waspwarts, mantises and maybe fire elementals. From your lineup you'd have 5 units with griffins/elves hard to build and faerie dragons pretty inferior to phoenixes - leading to less options at times. Access to nature, chaos and life magic if I'm correct.

Now H6 sylvan. More units, more specials on every single one of them. More spell/unit or synergy between units like dryads healing treants, sprites cleansing arcanes or druids using endurance on savage treants that (indirectly) boosted their attack, pristines receiving sprite/hero light spells, druid channeling allowing for high spellpower magic schools etc.
Ranger can effectively use every single magic school effectively as opposed to being forced to summoning and MAYBE something else. Sure you could pick other hero classes for that in tavern but they could hint your plans all the same, you could never know with an H5 ranger.

His units could be tough or frail, damaging or not, build focusing on army or on hero spells. You can go full frontal charge and slaughter opponent in 1-2 turns, you can play defensively, you can use a warmachine build, you can rain down imbued spells on 3 targets ar a time, curse, buff, summon, destroy. Avenger alone and its perks offer new possibilities that H4 never had.

Did H4 not have many options also? Sure. But not nearly there.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3850
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Postby Avonu » Feb 16 2011, 11:25

Elvin wrote:Now H6 sylvan. More units, more specials on every single one of them. More spell/unit or synergy between units like dryads healing treants, sprites cleansing arcanes or druids using endurance on savage treants that (indirectly) boosted their attack, pristines receiving sprite/hero light spells, druid channeling allowing for high spellpower magic schools etc.


Good to know that Sylvan will be in HVI explansion but bad that it will be the same Sylvan as in HV. :P

Elvin wrote:Ranger can effectively use every single magic school


Good luck with using destruction magic with Ranger, even with druids spell points boost.
Last edited by Avonu on Feb 16 2011, 11:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Feb 16 2011, 11:27

Lol sorry about that!
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Dalai
Equilibris Team
Equilibris Team
Posts: 1073
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Contact:

Postby Dalai » Feb 16 2011, 12:03

Elvin wrote:It's simple really, let's take sylvan.

H4 one had no retaliation sprites, double attacking wolves, first striking tigers or elves, bliding unicorns or always retaliating griffins and absolutely amazing phoenixes or kinda nice faerie dragons.. Plus creature portal where the only choices seemed to be water elementals, waspwarts, mantises and maybe fire elementals. From your lineup you'd have 5 units with griffins/elves hard to build and faerie dragons pretty inferior to phoenixes - leading to less options at times. Access to nature, chaos and life magic if I'm correct.

Now H6 sylvan. More units, more specials on every single one of them. More spell/unit or synergy between units like dryads healing treants, sprites cleansing arcanes or druids using endurance on savage treants that (indirectly) boosted their attack, pristines receiving sprite/hero light spells, druid channeling allowing for high spellpower magic schools etc.
Ranger can effectively use every single magic school effectively as opposed to being forced to summoning and MAYBE something else. Sure you could pick other hero classes for that in tavern but they could hint your plans all the same, you could never know with an H5 ranger.

His units could be tough or frail, damaging or not, build focusing on army or on hero spells. You can go full frontal charge and slaughter opponent in 1-2 turns, you can play defensively, you can use a warmachine build, you can rain down imbued spells on 3 targets ar a time, curse, buff, summon, destroy. Avenger alone and its perks offer new possibilities that H4 never had.

Did H4 not have many options also? Sure. But not nearly there.

Even if Nature in H4 had only 3 units, it would tactically be far more diverse due to large battlefield. Even if Nature had no units at all AND a tiny battlefield (yes, I mean h5 batllefield), just diversity of heroes creates a way lot more tactical choices than the whole H5 system. Sorry if you happened to miss that.
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." Brendan Gill

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Feb 16 2011, 12:11

If you say so.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Feb 16 2011, 12:57

Personally, I wouldn't put either game's (sorceress/sylvan) creatures above the other's. I think it would be fair to say that HoMM IV has the edge when it comes to heroes on the battlefield, whereas the greater diversity of HoMM V stems from its skill system.

Allow me to take a moment and engage in some reverie: A perfect HoMM game for me would be one with heroes on the battlefield + simultaneous retaliation + line of sight (HoMM IV), the polish and balance of HoMM III, the skill system and hero/skill/creature synergies of HoMM V, and the atmosphere/music of HoMM II & IV. Ah, one day, maybe. :beg:
Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

User avatar
Blocks100
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 67
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Liverpool

Postby Blocks100 » Feb 16 2011, 13:19

I'm cautiously optimistic about this new Heroes game. There's a lot to admire about Black Hole's take on the franchise. The new Harpy is the finest looking unit I've seen in any HOMM game, and the ability to convert towns shows they are listening to fans.

On the flip side, some of the other units look a little over-engineered (Enraged Cyclops, anyone?) and simplifying the build structures in towns for the sake of 'accessibility' seems a backwards step.

And while the map does look more zoomed out than HOMMV, it still doesn't quite deliver that 'I'm ruling an Empire!" buzz than was so fantastic about HOMMIII.

Overall, Black Hole deserve plaudits for breathing life back into a franchise which I thought was dead and buried. Hope they give us a demo soon!

User avatar
Infiltrator
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 1071
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Infiltrator » Feb 16 2011, 13:20

Metathron wrote:Allow me to take a moment and engage in some reverie: A perfect HoMM game for me would be one with heroes on the battlefield + simultaneous retaliation + line of sight (HoMM IV), the polish and balance of HoMM III, the skill system and hero/skill/creature synergies of HoMM V, and the atmosphere/music of HoMM II & IV. Ah, one day, maybe. :beg:


Have you played Heroes 3 against (skilled) human opponents? On a high level - where randomness is minimized via specific maps, balance was the place where heroes 3 lacked the most. For example, in a 1v1 scenario with 2 skilled humans, picking Castle and Fortress, the Castle would win most of the games. Fortress would only have a chance if Castle made some costly mistakes or had horrendous artifacts.

Several friends of mine, one who owns an internet cafe named Heroes, have fine tuned a map for absolute balance, and guess what - the fortress guy would get a free cape of velocity at the start (among other things) to stay competent with the other factions. Initial testing has proven that even then, Fortress was a masochistic choice.

A perfect HoMM game would, in my humble opinon consist of:

Combat system, polish and art style from H3, diversity and tactical choices from H4 (all that it ever had, imo), Music quality from H2, Spell and skill system similar to H5.
Infiltrator out.

User avatar
Metathron
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 2704
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
Contact:

Postby Metathron » Feb 16 2011, 13:41

Infiltrator wrote:Have you played Heroes 3 against (skilled) human opponents? On a high level - where randomness is minimized via specific maps, balance was the place where heroes 3 lacked the most. For example, in a 1v1 scenario with 2 skilled humans, picking Castle and Fortress, the Castle would win most of the games. Fortress would only have a chance if Castle made some costly mistakes or had horrendous artifacts.

Several friends of mine, one who owns an internet cafe named Heroes, have fine tuned a map for absolute balance, and guess what - the fortress guy would get a free cape of velocity at the start (among other things) to stay competent with the other factions. Initial testing has proven that even then, Fortress was a masochistic choice.


While I have played hotseat games on occasion, for me HoMM has always been a single player experience, so I have not had the chance to experience what you say; I also haven't invested myself in HoMM III quite as much as the previous and later titles, but I did always have a "hunch" that Fortress was the weakest faction, and because of that underdog status I would often pick it, because winning would be so much the sweeter. But of course, as is always the case, playing against the AI can never be as challenging as playing against a human opponent. But I don't really mind or feel like I have missed out; challenge is only one part of the appeal of HoMM for me, and not the biggest either.

A perfect HoMM game would, in my humble opinon consist of:

Combat system, polish and art style from H3, diversity and tactical choices from H4 (all that it ever had, imo), Music quality from H2, Spell and skill system similar to H5.


I like that this thread got us to thinking in this vein. I might just make a separate thread out of it & see what other folks think.
Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich.

Kranyum
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 43
Joined: 26 Jan 2011

Postby Kranyum » Feb 16 2011, 17:16

A perfect HoMM game would, in my humble opinon consist of:

Combat system, polish and art style from H3, diversity and tactical choices from H4 (all that it ever had, imo), Music quality from H2, Spell and skill system similar to H5.


This. With the exception of the spell system which I think H4 also did it better.
I agree the skill system was best in H5.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1435
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » Feb 16 2011, 20:35

Music quality from H2


Oh, how I long for this.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23260
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 17 2011, 12:19

Infiltrator wrote: art style from H3


WRONG!!!!!

H2 all they way baby.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
Infiltrator
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 1071
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Infiltrator » Feb 17 2011, 13:55

ThunderTitan wrote:
Infiltrator wrote: art style from H3


WRONG!!!!!

H2 all they way baby.


In an ideal world.

Realistically, next installments are going to be in 3D. Realistically, they could NEVER transition the H2 art style to 3D properly.
Infiltrator out.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23260
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 17 2011, 14:00

Yeah, i too didn't believe i'd ever see 3D that looks as good as well done 2D... then i saw Anno 1404... i thought it was 2D for a second even.

Hell, Heroes on that engine would totally rock.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
Infiltrator
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 1071
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Infiltrator » Feb 17 2011, 16:15

That looks a lot more like H3 than H2..
Infiltrator out.

Darkström
Scout
Scout
Posts: 198
Joined: 30 Aug 2010

Postby Darkström » Feb 17 2011, 21:41

ThunderTitan wrote:Yeah, i too didn't believe i'd ever see 3D that looks as good as well done 2D... then i saw Anno 1404... i thought it was 2D for a second even.

Hell, Heroes on that engine would totally rock.


Wow, that game looks like a painting.

User avatar
Tress
Raider
Raider
Posts: 784
Joined: 05 Dec 2007

Postby Tress » Feb 17 2011, 22:02

To answer question.
Hyped .. well enaugh to keep me interested what will game bring. I have my reservations on new features like resources or castle conversion as it is so unhomm like but I am willing to give it a chance, after all I can always play homm3 or 5 for more classic style game play anyway.


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 8 guests