Worst creeping faction

[Asheera]

I think druids are the worst opponents for just about every faction.

Not for Dungeon with its Stalkers

[wimfrits]

Not for Dungeon with its Stalkers

Hey, I said just about every faction
Though stalkers alone won't work on higher settings.

[Asheera]

Though stalkers alone won't work on higher settings.

Of course not, you need the support of the Hero's Destructive Spells

[Banedon]

Vote Inferno.

Inferno has serious troubles early-game, serious enough that I'm no longer sure how to play Inferno. The only race that can compare is Fortress, but there is a crucial difference: Fortress units are sturdy and well-suited to taking damage. For example, if you fight an early battle against ranged creatures you can as Fortress always deploy only the Shieldguards and rough it out. You lose Shieldguards - too bad, they aren't crucial and they are so tough anyway you won't find yourself short on them. You cannot do this as Inferno without suffering unacceptable losses - the Familiar stack needs to be preserved, building the Demon dwelling for the cannon fodder uses up resources and a building turn.

My opinion might be rather outdated though since I've long stopped playing both races (Inferno since the Deleb nerf, Fortress since the campaign).

[KiOwA]

Gating doesn't help me at all against druids for example. Pretty tough when they are blocking the way I need to go.

I think druids are the worst opponents for just about every faction.
Gating can still help though.

Inferno units don't usually gate in fast enough early on in the game before the druids get at least one shot off apiece - that's murder on your early army. Of course this is mitigated by Ultimate Gating, but by then you should simply have enough in your tank to simply run over the druids.

Master archers come in a close second for most annoying creep unit. They're fast and do quite abit of damage, and those initiative-killing arrows can really pin your guys down. I almost always avoid these two kinds of stacks when out creeping.

[wimfrits]

Inferno units don't usually gate in fast enough early on in the game before the druids get at least one shot off apiece - that's murder on your early army.

Agreed. Gating won't help much with a full Inferno army.
But if you can force the druids to appear in a small amount of stacks, and only deploy fodder armies capable of gating, you'll have a maximum of 12 expendable stacks. If the hero (possibly assisted by a ballista) is able to deal with the druids before these 12 armies are lost, Inferno can deal with a druid stack relatively early on without suffering too much losses.

[blizzardboy]

I'd agree that Inferno is generally the weakest. They don't get a ranged unit until tier 4, and you don't have any fast casters to compliment your army (pit lords are too slow).

Although there is a slight contradiction in this, because I actually think Inferno can be the best creeping faction if for some reason you're rushing a really hard creep. Gating does wonders in absorbing damage to prevent casualties. But this isn't going to help you in the normal creeping situation where your army is vastly superior and you're just trying to avoid taking any loses before killing them.

[PhoenixReborn]

Well just analyze it out,

Fortress with rune of charge and un-upgraded bears have no trouble with druids or hunters or succubi.

Necro is no losses anyways.

Academy could go either way depends on your build.

Sylvan might be in a tough spot like Inferno, they haven't the best early game...

Dungeon no comment

I suck at haven, not sure what they do.

[wimfrits]

By the time I normally meet druids (or other ugly stacks), my army is at most only slightly stronger than the druids. Might be the difficulty setting though.

That means Fortress can run forward and block their shots, but can no way do enough damage to avoid being blown to pieces with lightning. Week3/4

Necro doesn't have enough spellpoints to raise all units that are blown to pieces by lightning. Week2/3

Academy has a good chance to survive, if player builds obsidian gargoyles, perhaps in combination with golems. Which means the rest of his building plans is postponed. Week2

Sylvan is tough. With some luck and sufficient units, split stacks of master hunters can do the trick without suffering too much losses. Haven't tried with arcane archers yet. Week2/3/4

Dungeon and stalkers only works when the hero can deal enough spelldamage in the available time. On average that means somewhere in week3.

Haven can use imperial griffins and fodder stacks and a good sense of timing. Week2/3

Stronghold with centaurs and perhaps shamans can't really avoid damage, but suffer less damage. Week3/4

Inferno with Deleb can take on a druid stack in week2

[PhoenixReborn]

Inferno with Deleb can take on a druid stack in week2

Not in Tribes...are you playing original heroes V?

Sounds like you are playing heroic not hard?

[Elvin]

It's possible with pack. A little luck, tent and you get no losses.

[wimfrits]

Inferno with Deleb can take on a druid stack in week2

Not in Tribes...are you playing original heroes V?

Sounds like you are playing heroic not hard?

Yes.
Deleb's effectiveness is reduced somewhat in ToE but I think she still is Inferno's best shot of an early advantage on heroic

[Wolfsburg]

Inferno as a creep faction doesnt mean Deleb. She is the clear and single exception to the rule.

Take any other inferno hero, just about any. Lets assume you are playing on hard. Lets assume your most essencial mines are guarded by ranged units... now try to take your castle of the ground and minimize losses.

Remeber you are not supposed to lose familiars, specially when dueling against spell casters, not to mention hell hounds which you shouldnt lose under any circumstances anyway.

=You just can't.

Unless you are blessed with tactics on a very early stage, and enough resources for your cerberi to be popping up on week 1, you will very soon have nothing but a meager amount of familiars and a softened up pack of cerberi to fight a well armed opponent ready to turn your ranks into ashes.

Voted inferno.

[Asheera]

Inferno as a creep faction doesnt mean Deleb. She is the clear and single exception to the rule.

I agree !

[Metathron]

Good post, Wolfsburg. You remind me just how painful the early game can be with Inferno, even if I voted Fortress.

[wimfrits]

Inferno as a creep faction doesnt mean Deleb. She is the clear and single exception to the rule.

Well, a faction without heroes does not exist. If you play heroic and are free to choose the hero to play with, the choice will be Deleb. So under these circumstances; Inferno as a creep faction does mean Deleb.

I do acknowledge that other Inferno heroes have more trouble dealing with ranged units and spellcasters. But not more than other factions; except Dungeon and up to a point, Necro.

[Wolfsburg]

Good post, Wolfsburg. You remind me just how painful the early game can be with Inferno, even if I voted Fortress.

Thanks, Metathron. One of the things that prevented me from choosing fortress is the very concept of "loss". To lose 3-10 shield guards in every ranged combat on early game IMO is completely different then losing 3-10 familiars. The last will cost you dearly in the future.

And I tend to think the dwarves hold their ground very well against shooters, specially when Ingvar is in control. Opposite to infernal troops that have a stunning att. rating at cost of their HP and defense, making them even ridiculously suceptible to ranged damage. And this is fatal when it comes to creeping.

[KiOwA]

Pardon me for asking what must seem a silly question, but why is Deleb considered so overpowered?

[Elvin]

She isn't but she's still inferno's fastest hero.

[wimfrits]

The combination of gating and the ballista perk creates an exploitable situation