Heroes Family Tree

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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dxrb2108
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Heroes Family Tree

Postby dxrb2108 » Jan 16 2008, 20:14

Can anyone draw out a good Family tree for the world of the heroes saga....

like the gryphonharts, and the ironfists.....

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Postby Mirez » Jan 16 2008, 21:07

lol wtf? ;|
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby Wulfstan8182 » Jan 16 2008, 22:20

huh? wtf are you talking about? are you saying you want to know who had it with who and who came out? is that what you mean? :D
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Postby Pol » Jan 16 2008, 22:29

Yes, I expect so. After all this is what is called family tree. :tongue:

However I don't know Heroes genealogy so good.
Still span is till H5, then it will be about a different story, so moved...
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Postby dxrb2108 » Jan 17 2008, 0:32

well i'll put in what i know

morglin ironfist fought is cousin for the throne
after morglin roland ironfist fought his brother archibald
roland was married to catherine gryphonhart?
...

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Re: Heroes Family Tree

Postby HodgePodge » Jan 17 2008, 2:18

dxrb2108 wrote:Can anyone draw out a good Family tree for the world of the heroes saga....

like the gryphonharts, and the ironfists.....

Well, I don't know about the Family Tree but here's a pretty good discussion of the History of Might & Magic including how Heroes and the Might & Magic RPG games are related and how they interact with each other, with timelines throughout. Hope this helps. :)
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jan 17 2008, 9:10

From what we know it only goes like this:

M. Ironfist:
-> Roland If.
-> Archibald If.

King Gryphonheart:
-> Catherine If. (nee Gh.);

Roland + Catherine = Nicolai If.

Too many unknowns for anything more.
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Postby Avonu » Jan 17 2008, 13:39

Well, I think it's all Ironfits' family tree, but for Gryphonheart:

- Rion Gryphonheart (founder of Erathia and slayer of Tarnum - ca. 1000+/-100 years ago)
- his daughter Allyson from Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld (I don't remember detail but she has something with Tarnum)
- David Gryphonheart IV (birth in 580 A.S.)
- Aaron Gryphonheart IV (died in 817 A.S.)
- Niven Gryphonheart (he dethroned his mad father in Revolts of the Beatsmaster, after "hundreds of years of [Mudlanders] slavery" - so it can be earlier or later then I posted)
- Nicolas Gryphonheart+Gwenllian (she died in ambush in 1153 A.S. along with one of their daughter)
- their other daughter Catherine Gryphonhert married Roland Ironfist 1 August 1154 A.S. (she killed several of her relatives - but not details are known)
- Nicolai Ironfist (grandchild of Nicholas born ca. 1155 A.S.)
- Lord Lysander (unkown mother or father)
- also Sephinroth (she claimed to be illegitimate child of Nicholas but later she denied this)
Last edited by Avonu on Jan 24 2008, 7:19, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby HodgePodge » Jan 17 2008, 18:04

Avonu wrote:Well, I think it's all Ironfits' family tree, but for Gryphonheart:

- Rion Gryphonheart (founder of Erathia and slayer of Tarnum - ca. 1000+/-100 years ago)
- his daughter Allyson from Heroes Chronicles: Conquest of the Underworld (I don't remember detail but she has something with Tarnum)
- David Gryphonheart IV (birth in 580 A.S.)
- Aaron Gryphonheart IV (died in 817 A.S.)
- Nicholas Gryphonheart+Gwenllian (she died in ambush in 1153 A.S. along with one of their daughter)
- their other daughter Catherine Gryphonhert married Roland Ironfist 1 August 1154 A.S. (she killed several of her relatives - but not details are known)
- Nicolai Ironfist (grandchild of Nicholas born ca. 1155 A.S.)
- Lord Lysander (unkown mother or father)
- also Sephinroth (she claimed to be illegitimate child of Nicholas but later she denied this)

Thanks Avonu for the Gryphonheart Family Tree & Timeline. Very informative and every bit as important to the Heroes saga as the Ironfist Family Tree. :)
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Postby Avonu » Jan 18 2008, 9:27

Thanks, but credits should belong to Ribannah and Kareeah Indaga - they posted most of the info.
Also, I added prince from HC:RotB - but I not sure when he could live.

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Postby Ya5MieL » Jan 22 2008, 22:09

Queen Alison is Tarnum's niece (daughter of tarnum's sister who married a gryphonhart)

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Postby Corlagon » Jan 22 2008, 22:49

Some additional little-known tidbits:

Rion Gryphonheart I's wife was indeed one of Tarnum's two sisters, and Allison is Tarnum's niece (only Tarnum himself knew this though). Catherine's only sister was named Beatrice. Mad King Gryphonheart was also the ruler of Erathia during the Tatalian Revolt of the Beastmasters. He had two sons - one elder (unnamed) and one younger (Niven) who succeeded his father. Other members of the Ironfist family include Ragnar (Morglin's cousin from VARN) and Jerico Ironfist (possibly a misprint intended to mean Morglin himself, possibly a relative). Lysander Gryphonheart also has a number of siblings, though I can't be bothered to look that number up just now. His parentage remains a mystery - possibly some unknown Gryphonheart seperated at birth or something. At a stretch you could also include Finneas Vilmar as Nicolas' father (Lich King Nicolas, that is, not the living one) :D It's also known that Nicolas banished the Necromancers from Erathia somehow, and his presence in the storyline allows us to learn that Clash of the Dragons took place after Shadow of Death and before Restoration of Erathia.

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Postby Kareeah Indaga » Jan 23 2008, 1:03

I don’t see Terrance Gryphonheart mentioned yet. No dates that I can recall, but he was the one who lost the Gryphonheart Trumpet.

HodgePodge wrote:- David Gryphonheart IV (birth in 580 A.S.)
- Aaron Gryphonheart IV (died in 817 A.S.)


May I also be so bold as to suggest that with the IV behind each of the above names, that David and Aaron Gryphonhearts I-III lived some time before those dates?

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Postby Corlagon » Jan 23 2008, 14:27

There is no date given for Terrance's mishap, only a clue (a previous Human / Elf dispute).

Where does it say that Catherine killed several of her relatives? She joined the Talon Brigade and killed Connel Traxton in a duel, that's it as far as I recall.

Hey, why don't we do one for Bracada?

Grand Vizier Gavin Magnus (II?)
Ruled from 100-200 A.S. to 1175 A.S.

There, that was easy. :proud:

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Postby Avonu » Jan 23 2008, 23:20

Added one more missing king - Lothoe IV (not too "few" of this "Gryphonheart IV" rulers?).

Corlagon wrote:Lysander Gryphonheart also has a number of siblings, though I can't be bothered to look that number up just now. His parentage remains a mystery - possibly some unknown Gryphonheart seperated at birth or something.

Or maybe some uncle of Catherine or farer kinsmen.

It's also known that Nicolas banished the Necromancers from Erathia somehow, and his presence in the storyline allows us to learn that Clash of the Dragons took place after Shadow of Death and before Restoration of Erathia.

Where in CotD king of Erathia is mention by name? It was probably misteke of storywriter, who don't know/forgotten that Morgan Kendal was regent not king.

And if this text is true, then CotD takes place after AB (in last scenario of Mutare's campaign she has crystal dragon), just after become dragon queen:

AB Crystal Dragon wrote:Made entirely from red crystal and brought to life through magical means, this dragon is literally semi-transparent, lit from the center by its magical heart. This dragon was created for Dracon, so he would be properly challenged on his final test in becoming a Dragon Slayer. The Crystal dragon is an instinctual creature, attacking almost anything that crosses its path, using its claws, as it does not have the internal workings for a breath attack. If you meet one of these creatures then you know they need only their claws to turn you into tiny little pieces.


Corlagon wrote:Where does it say that Catherine killed several of her relatives?

Here:
MM7 wrote:However, Roland's wife, Queen Catherine of Erathia, does have a history of slaying obnoxius relatives.


Corlagon wrote:Hey, why don't we do one for Bracada?

Grand Vizier Gavin Magnus (II?)
Ruled from 100-200 A.S. to 1175 A.S.

Not so easy - I can't find it right now but there was a text saying that Bracada had rulers - not just one king/vizier.

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Postby Corlagon » Jan 23 2008, 23:42

Avonu wrote:Where in CotD king of Erathia is mention by name?


He's not. But there is absolutely nothing to prevent that king from being Nicolas Gryphonheart. And here's hard evidence that he was:

+ We know a king was ruling during CotD.
+ Gelu is mentioned in the first scenario as having trained alongside Tarnum, so this takes place after his Graduation Exercise scenario in SoD, when Nicolas was still alive.
+ Nicolas is poisoned directly before RoE.
+ Waerjak's approximate age as 23 in Heroes IV, 12-15 in CotD and Adrienne's appearance prevents CotD from happening in the distant past.

Avonu wrote:It was probably misteke of storywriter, who don't know/forgotten that Morgan Kendal was regent not king.


Sorry, but I really doubt it. I'm pretty sure the author knew what he was talking about when it comes to Gryphonhearts - he invented the story of Rion, Allison and Niven after all.

Avonu wrote:And if this text is true, then CotD takes place after AB (in last scenario of Mutare's campaign she has crystal dragon)


Yes and there are necromantic undead creatures in the Underworld long before the Deyjan Brotherhood was even invented, also Tarnum can train Enchanters when we are told in no uncertain terms that they were "invented" by Dracon. The presence of certain units in certain scenarios doesn't need to have bearing on the storyline, it's reasonable to be selective about this.

Also from Dragon Slayer mission 1:

Dragon Slayer Mission 1 - Crystal Dragons wrote:Your mother has been training Dragon Slayers for as long as she can remember. It is now time that she train her only son. Your mother knows how smart you are and therefore she can't give you any ordinary task. Approximately 30 or so years ago your mother went to the Festival of Life. The events of the festival inspired her. She took red crystal and, with the idea of a Golem in her head, created Crystal Dragons. She then set them loose in this little valley.


Thirty or so years ago. And there are some slightly different ways to make Crystal Dragons:

Clash of the Dragons Mission 5 - Distrust wrote:"Well, they aren't true Dragons, although the powerful process Wizards use to create them involves crushed Dragon bones. Hence, Mutare is still able to control them. They are strong beasts with a one-track mind. Thankfully, they neither have wings nor a breath weapon," the Elf said.


Ooh, on the subject, here's another tidbit I came across:

Deftclaw Redreaver, Might and Magic VIII wrote:"An Erathian Dragon visited my cave shortly before you arrived there. He reported to me that a new type of Dragon, one seemingly made of crystalline rock, has been seen in Erathia. I'm not sure why I tell you this. Perhaps the giant crystal in the town square reminds me of the story. "

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Postby Kareeah Indaga » Jan 24 2008, 0:53

Avonu wrote:Added one more missing king - Lothoe IV (not too "few" of this "Gryphonheart IV" rulers?).


Wasn’t he the King of AvLee?

Might and Magic VII wrote:Castle Harmondale was completed in 689 as the first line of defense against Elvish forces led by King Lothoe IV during the Timber Wars. In a sign of things to come, It fell to an Elvish assault just three years later at the infamous Battle for Harmondale.

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Postby Avonu » Jan 24 2008, 7:39

Yes, some mistakes between original (English) version and translated version of MM7.
Removed.

@Corlagon

+ Gelu is mentioned in the first scenario as having trained alongside Tarnum, so this takes place after his Graduation Exercise scenario in SoD, when Nicolas was still alive.

Tarnum was in AvLee for 20 years before Mutare attack:
CotD, Day 1 wrote:For the past twenty or so years I have lived among the Elves in these beautiful forests.

Between SoD and RoE pasted 10 years. Gelu was found by Morgan Kendal when he (Kendal, not Gelu) served under Catherine in Talon Brigade - calculate yourself when it happened:

Gelu bio wrote:Little is known about Gelu's origins. History reports he was a baby found by Morgan Kendal during his military service as a lieutenant under the command of Captain Catherine Gryphonheart during her original tour of duty with the Talon brigade.



And how about this:

Sword of Frost, Day 1 wrote:I've heard that after the death of their leader, the Dragon Queen Mutare, Nighon has fallen into chaos. Mutare's generals battle for control in an endless civil conflict. Just the sort of environment where I could slip in and gain control of the forces I'll need to stop Gelu's foolish quest.

Forces that invaded Erathia didn't seem to fall into chaos.

We can agrue forever on Chronicles. Lack of detailed info and lack of references to general stroy of planet (especially from MM) cause that most of fans theory can be right.
If we only know which facts are based on earlier games and which are not but think out by HC storywriter(s), then the task of creating detailed timeline and story will be easier.

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Postby Corlagon » Jan 24 2008, 16:11

Avonu wrote:We can agrue forever on Chronicles.


Maybe you can, but I'll need to take a short break every few days if that's alright with you :D

Avonu wrote:Lack of detailed info and lack of references to general stroy of planet (especially from MM) cause that most of fans theory can be right.


You're right, but there are still plenty of clues which we can use to determine the time of these events.

My reasoning:

Catherine was born in 1130 A.S. She became a Captain around the age of 16. We can thus assume that Gelu was born and found between 1146-7, during her original tour of duty.

If we assume SoD took place 10 years before RoE, and RoE took place in 1166, this means he was 9-10 years old in the Elixir of Life campaign... not reasonable.

Sandro undermined Gelu a lot, calling him "a boy" and "a snippet" during his campaign, so we can take it that Gelu was not older than about 18 or 19 during SoD either.

Push SoD forward to about 1164, and this places Gelu at the ages of 17-18 during his first campaign. Reasonable? :)

Avonu wrote:Between SoD and RoE pasted 10 years.


Proof please (yes, Gem said a year had passed since Archibald's defeat, but her campaign could well have taken place before Gelu's).

Avonu wrote:Tarnum was in AvLee for 20 years before Mutare attack


Yes, but that doesn't mean he became a Forest Guard Ranger immediately:

Tarnum, Clash of the Dragons wrote:While in the service of AvLee, I fought in the Forest Guard beside a young Vori Elf named Gelu. He invented an interesting bow, used only by the most experienced archers. These elite troops were called Sharpshooters.


Avonu wrote:Forces that invaded Erathia didn't seem to fall into chaos.


Because Mutare wasn't dead just yet:

CotD ending wrote:After her defeat, Mutare fled to Nighon to lick her wounds and plot Tarnum's death, but she soon met her fate at the hands of another.

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Postby Yurian Stonebow » Jan 24 2008, 16:39

"I've heard that after the death of their leader, the Dragon Queen Mutare, Nighon has fallen into chaos. Mutare's generals battle for control in an endless civil conflict." -Tarnum, Sword of Frost

If you want to know what happaned in Nighon and Erathia after Mutare was killed, I recommend you play a scenario called "Mutare's Apprentice".
It's found both here on the CH and MapHaven's map archives.

It's author seems to be some Heroes series fanboy by the name of Olavi Valimaki. :D







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