Town Development

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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Town Development

Postby Mirez » Oct 10 2014, 8:55

So in their recent blog the devs have released some information regarding town development.

It mentions a town level system similar to heroes 5. I hate that, it makes towns so linear to build up. It doesn't give the player a lot of options. For example: in heroes 3 one could rush to efreet (tier 6 inferno unit) in week 1 and use them to clear mines/rush the enemy.
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Postby Kalah » Oct 10 2014, 11:58

But surely, one tier should build upon another? Is being able to build Champion dwellings without first building Core dwellings logical?
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Postby Mirez » Oct 10 2014, 12:06

You can't build a level 2 mage guild before level 1 obviously. And you'll probably need to build the core structures to have enough points for the campion structure. But I liked the concept of building requirements (like in heroes 3) more.
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Postby Konfuzius » Oct 10 2014, 12:59

I was only skimming over the text but from what I understood that it is only similar to Heres 5 in the way that you don't strictly have 3 tiers. While I did like Heroes 6 and think was a small, yet very good addition, I think you can find a way to balance it out.


But I think the the "damage is already done" when it comes to not having town conversions... why would a sane person choose to do that? -.-'

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Postby Panda Tar » Oct 10 2014, 15:21

I was relieved with the no conversion. For me, it was one of the worst H6 additions, tagged up with the teleporting between towns and zoning.

Perhaps dwelling might not have impending lvs? While other structures and supportive buildings will.

And regarding the images, I dread we'll be having all those undead gleaming green again. It makes me so sad.
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Oct 10 2014, 16:00

After their foray into new design choices for H6 was a total failure, they are scared and resting on their laurels. That is why we are going to get Heroes 5 reboot. It makes me really sad having homm in the hands of this design team. :(

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Postby Rapier » Oct 10 2014, 20:10

Not sure how I feel.

On the one hand I feel like requiring you to have a certain level of town to attract stronger forces makes sense. On the other hand it does reduce options.

Although at the higher difficulties almost every game is best served by rapidly expanding your income except on the very smallest maps.

I'm not sure that any of the heroes games ever really had "options" in the sense that I think almost always one build route was optimal (it only became options if your resources were so limited that you had to sacrifice something).

More buildings where you have to choose between one of two (or more) might be nice - especially if they're well balanced choices. We'll see how exactly they've done it.

I'd quite like to see the return of units having two upgrade choices personally, but I don't think we shall.
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Postby Panda Tar » Oct 10 2014, 20:42

Rapier wrote:I'd quite like to see the return of units having two upgrade choices personally, but I don't think we shall.


I wouldn't mind either. Something I would find interesting in this approach was a town scheme where some upgrades would be available under certain requirements, and, depending on the buildings you built in your town, you could even end up having not a possibility to upgrade some units (by boosting economics, other unit growth etc.). I also like those accessories we had in H5 Academy, to boost some stats. I think that could be implemented in all towns, by having some of those things available as Town skills.
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Oct 11 2014, 2:21

I like the current approach because it reminds me of H4. But I hope it's implemented well and the feature is not made pointless due to balance problems or poor integration with maps/resources. Multi-upgrades had this problem and if it's not integrated well, there's not much use in having two optional upgrades.

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Postby Mirez » Oct 11 2014, 16:29

Panda Tar wrote:I wouldn't mind either. Something I would find interesting in this approach was a town scheme where some upgrades would be available under certain requirements, and, depending on the buildings you built in your town, you could even end up having not a possibility to upgrade some units (by boosting economics, other unit growth etc.). I also like those accessories we had in H5 Academy, to boost some stats. I think that could be implemented in all towns, by having some of those things available as Town skills.

Anything that gives upgrades more depth would be nice too be honest. In heroes 3/6 it was a matter of getting the good upgrades fast and the bad ones later (or not at all).

The idea of having different upgrades is nice but in practise (Tribes of the East) it turns out one upgrade is usually superior to the other or the difference is too small to matter. And I can't really blame ubi, there are many units and it would be close to impossible to balance the game if the upgrades differ too much.

I always liked the idea of being able to upgrade 2 or 3 units per castle. You'd have to choose between an advantage early on or stronger troops in lategame.
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Postby Groovy » Nov 2 2014, 20:54

I still think that town development should be designed to be more dynamic and integrated with other game facets, especially the state of the surrounding countryside.

Let’s take Haven as an example. The town blueprint could be split into a static and a dynamic portion. The static portion would contain human-specific buildings, since humans are the key inhabitants of this town. These buildings would be fairly basic, but always available for the player to build, subject to certain fixed dependency constraints.

The dynamic portion of the blueprint would define the buildings that could be built in principle, but are subject to the state of the countryside. If the player encounters a herd of horses on the map, he could use this supply of horses to build the Jousting Arena in the town and train Cavaliers. Building the Griffin Tower and training Griffins would require the player to first take control of a Griffin Nest in the countryside. Controlling an external angel dwelling would be a prerequisite for building the Altar of Light in the town. If one weren’t available but a giant dwelling was, then the player would get to build the Cloud Temple instead.

The reasoning behind this model is that Haven is a human town, inhabited and built by humans with human knowledge. Angels don’t appear there simply as a result of humans building an angel dwelling, which they shouldn’t know how to build anyway. They appear as a result of an alliance forged between the inhabitants of their respective dwellings, which paves the way for the player to use angel units and knowledge. A consequence of this approach is that, should the angel dwelling fall to an enemy player, the supply of angels to the human town would cease, and the player would no longer be able to recruit Angel units from it.

The recruitment of heroes could be designed along similar lines, so that only heroes from allied races are made available for recruitment. Since angels are much more powerful than humans, their starting heroes could also be made much more powerful than human starting heroes.

Other dynamic dependencies could also be implemented. In a barbarian town, the construction of the Mage Guild could be made dependent on the presence of a race proficient with magic. Upgrading Giants to lightning-wielding Titans could require the player to provide a source of lightning to the town – via another lightning-wielding unit being present, a lightning-based artefact, or a spell in the Mage Guild or the hero’s spellbook.

With this approach, all the towns of a given type would share certain core characteristics and develop to a certain minimum level of competence. Beyond that, their features would largely be determined by what the player finds and is able to claim on the adventure map. This would make the same town play differently on different maps, and even on different playthroughs of the same map. It would also give map makers a lot of influence over the game, the kind of influence that currently requires modding.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Mar 1 2015, 7:16

Groovy is the best. B-)

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Postby Groovy » Mar 2 2015, 16:50

mr.hackcrag wrote:Groovy is the best. B-)

I see we have similar tastes in strategy game mechanics. :hug:
It would be nice if a HoMM game implemented them, but sadly I don't see that happening any time soon. I've built them into my tabletop game, but at this stage, I don't have much of an idea as to when it will be finished.

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Postby Panda Tar » Mar 2 2015, 17:54

Well, in H7, when they updated one of the last articles they said it was still too early to talk or say anything related to heroes development - also mechanics... I mean, they're about to have alpha version. Where the heck are those mechanics? :?

And no, never something too deep, or new players might not grasp the gameplay. But tons of fancy graphics and animations. That can be done all right. :drama:

Another example of how sad the situation is:

You have a spectral dragon with an ability called: flaying breath - just an example. Then they describe: the breath is a killing thing, many foes will die under it.

And then you are left to ponder for all eternity what that really means, truly, explained, specified. All information in H7 mechanics - those few info which are available, that is - have a blanket of fog in front of it where you cannot see what they really mean, so you are always speculating, but never entirely sure of anything. It's so annoying.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Mar 3 2015, 2:45

I get the feeling heroes development will be just like it has always been Panda. It sounds like they are at the final steps of copying over everything from H3&5. Now what this game needs are some extra mechanics and features that will put it over as the defining strategy game of the modern era.

Groovy wrote:
mr.hackcrag wrote:Groovy is the best. B-)

It would be nice if a HoMM game implemented them, but sadly I don't see that happening any time soon. I've built them into my tabletop game, but at this stage, I don't have much of an idea as to when it will be finished.


Keep fighting the good fight my friend. :hail:


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