Igromir news

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Nov 5 2010, 9:38

@Matt
Creeping is dealing with neutrals for xp and goodies :)

@Zenofex
It would be ideal but H5 was built with inherently flawed balance. Do you want to take down sylvan with dungeon week 7? Not gonna happen, very rare. Dwarves? Even worse. Beyond week 5 summoning/destructive/machines are relatively weak, come week 6, 7 and later on almost worthless. After week 5 the only good options are light and dark plus the lategame factions dominate for the most part. Sure other factions can sneak a win every now and then but that's about it.

See that's the problem, to even stand a chance in lategame you HAVE to get light and dark. Btw it is irrelevant whether you know the map or not if you can play fast and prioritize your routes. Even when I played blind(nobody knows map) I could find my way to the center week 5 or 6 at the very worst.

@Pitsu
I'm all for that as long as the first turn charge has not decided the game already. Themetically it is a good idea, balance-wise it was poorly implemented.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some more news from red flag :)

Skeletons can fling a spear.

Ghosts can cast some support spell on allies.

Liches can cast a spell on allies and pass the received damage to the chosen unit as health points.

Unupgraded vampires can teleport too.

According to Ervan, necromancer's 7th level unit will be a semihuman/semispider, it being can become (not absolutely clearly � to divide into two beings or to turn into two different beings). About 6th level unit no info.

The Griffin�s Battle Dive now works a little on another � he attacks not a cell in the field, he attacks chosen unit, independently there was it on the same place or has moved.

10 big bosses (more than 2υ2 cells) already made.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

User avatar
Zenofex
Scout
Scout
Posts: 151
Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Location: Dark Balkans

Postby Zenofex » Nov 5 2010, 10:10

Elvin wrote:It would be ideal but H5 was built with inherently flawed balance. Do you want to take down sylvan with dungeon week 7? Not gonna happen, very rare. Dwarves? Even worse. Beyond week 5 summoning/destructive/machines are relatively weak, come week 6, 7 and later on almost worthless. After week 5 the only good options are light and dark plus the lategame factions dominate for the most part. Sure other factions can sneak a win every now and then but that's about it.

See that's the problem, to even stand a chance in lategame you HAVE to get light and dark. Btw it is irrelevant whether you know the map or not if you can play fast and prioritize your routes. Even when I played blind(nobody knows map) I could find my way to the center week 5 or 6 at the very worst

My whole point is that the replication of these situations in the next installment has to be avoided and the spells and their early-middle-late game balancing are very important to get the job done properly. That said, the direct damage spells simply have to be competitive to the rest if the game takes more than 2-3 months and like I said in Heroes V this was valid only for the Warlock. Which is just another marginal scenario.
Beware Kreegans bearing gifts.

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Nov 5 2010, 10:35

Amen to that.

Some more revelations,

- Ghosts are no longer incorporeal, at least in H5 way.

- There will be 10 artifact sets and battlefield tiles, which will give bonuses to troops standing on them.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Pitsu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1823
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Postby Pitsu » Nov 5 2010, 12:04

Elvin wrote:
According to Ervan, necromancer's 7th level unit will be a semihuman/semispider, it being can become (not absolutely clearly � to divide into two beings or to turn into two different beings). About 6th level unit no info.


interesting

The Griffin�s Battle Dive now works a little on another � he attacks not a cell in the field, he attacks chosen unit, independently there was it on the same place or has moved.


From H5 beta times i kind of liked dive as it was. You saw the move by enemy and you had the choice to try to save potential target stack by moving it. Looks like we have got rid of an original attack-countermove situation.

10 big bosses (more than 2υ2 cells) already made.


Again i wonder how far the game is in development. IMO boss fights should be a cherry on the cake, i.e. added when the core play is more-or less finished. Impression is that the making of bosses is ranked high in priority list.
We have 5 towns in H6 not because it is optimal for balance or limited by skill variety, but because of fertility issues of a Pelican duke. We do not have any playable dragon because they are gods and playing with them is a sin. Now the boss fights are an high priority part of game balance? Where do we end up?
Avatar image credit: N Lüdimois

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Nov 5 2010, 12:20

I should note that the champion does not actually split, it can change forms.

I kinda liked old dive myself but then griffins had 16 initiative and could have a lot of actions with morale.

And bosses aren't exactly part of balance but since they'll be frequently encountered in campaigns..
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Pitsu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1823
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Postby Pitsu » Nov 5 2010, 14:17

Elvin wrote:And bosses aren't exactly part of balance but since they'll be frequently encountered in campaigns..


That is it. The game is built around (official) campaign(s). It is the campaign that is the cornerstone of development, not gameplay in a more general sense. It would be fine for a RPG, but doubtful strategy for a game that should have great MP and custom campaign features. Of course I am not seeing into the minds and work desks of the developers, but impression is like they are trying to build a car around horn and lightbulbs.
Avatar image credit: N Lüdimois

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » Nov 5 2010, 14:21

Because they are creating bosses some 5 months before the game release..?
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.

- Metathron

User avatar
Pitsu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1823
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Postby Pitsu » Nov 5 2010, 15:14

A small piece in a greater picture. The greater picture includes VIP forum discussion at early 2006 and H5 scripting besides the bits of info we know about the H6.
Avatar image credit: N Lüdimois

User avatar
Romanov77
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 269
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Romanov77 » Nov 6 2010, 8:13

After reading this, I am smelling a Command&Conquer4 scale failure...

Hope I am wrong.
And with the passing of strange eons, even death may die.

H.P. Lovecraft - gentleman, writer and dreamer.

User avatar
Pitsu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1823
Joined: 22 Nov 2005

Postby Pitsu » Nov 6 2010, 10:44

Igromir gameplay/combat video

They put effort into making bosses, but cannot give us mixed neutrals? Oh priorities...
Avatar image credit: N Lüdimois

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3854
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2010, 12:14

Why I have feeling that hero screen looks similar to WoW (or other "standard" MMO) character screen?
Also - Vampire Knight?

User avatar
sm.art
Galactic Gargle Blaster
Galactic Gargle Blaster
Posts: 42
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

Gameplay Video - modified

Postby sm.art » Nov 6 2010, 12:50


King Imp
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 570
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby King Imp » Nov 6 2010, 15:57

Pitsu wrote:Igromir gameplay/combat video

They put effort into making bosses, but cannot give us mixed neutrals? Oh priorities...


Did Ubi already forget about H5? We fought for them to get Nival to add mixed neutrals and they finally caved. Now we're going back to square one again? :disagree:

So, what was that glowing bush in the last battle? The Vampire went in it, but you couldn't tell what it did, if anything. Oh, and the Ghoul being able to get all the way across the field in one turn is just wrong to me.


Avonu wrote:Why I have feeling that hero screen looks similar to WoW (or other "standard" MMO) character screen?
Also - Vampire Knight?


Because it seems they desperately want this game to eventually become an MMO. I'm trying to be optimistic, but this latest news has me concerned. It's as if yet another company doesn't understand the core of Heroes and wants to make it something it's not.

Oh, and the Vampire Knight throwing his sword into the air, catching it and then attacking is probably the dumbest thing I've seen in regards to an attack.


I just want to know one thing. Do hero's specializations (i.e. specializing in a specific unit, specializing in a spell, etc.) still exist or did they feel that wasn't necessary either?

User avatar
Nelgirith
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 228
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Location: France

Postby Nelgirith » Nov 6 2010, 16:54

King Imp wrote:
Pitsu wrote:Igromir gameplay/combat video

They put effort into making bosses, but cannot give us mixed neutrals? Oh priorities...


Did Ubi already forget about H5? We fought for them to get Nival to add mixed neutrals and they finally caved. Now we're going back to square one again? :disagree:


Oh my god ! There are no mixed stacks in a 10 minutes demo featuring 3 fights ! That means there will be no mixed stacks ! *screams* *screams* *screams*

I trust Marzhin to make mixed stacks a possibility rather than judging this from a 10 minutes video of an alpha version.

User avatar
BB Shockwave
Scout
Scout
Posts: 195
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Postby BB Shockwave » Nov 7 2010, 14:12

Being hungarian, I am ashamed now that my countrymen are developing this game. Heck, I have written down better ideas for a HOMM game then these.

No Dragons, Magic spells as skills, simplified economy... Add a storyline and world I no longer care about and WOW/Warhammer influenced art style... Frankly I found Heroes V simplified and boring, but for VI, my feelings are going into negative even.

I hope King's Bounty Online comes out soon, until then, back to Crossworlds for me. I guess HOMMIII shall remain the last true HOMM game for a long, long time yet.

User avatar
Zenofex
Scout
Scout
Posts: 151
Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Location: Dark Balkans

Postby Zenofex » Nov 7 2010, 15:32

In defense of your fellow countrymen, I'd say that hardly even one half of the decisions about the game are their own. Ubisoft has the final say here, so they bear the greater part of the responsibility regarding whether the game is good or bad.
Beware Kreegans bearing gifts.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23263
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Nov 7 2010, 16:36

Yeah, the devs should mostly be held responsible for the technical part... the art style is obviously done under the same idea as H5's and Ubi is the one calling the shots when it comes to what mechanics go in the game, even if maybe Blackhole came up with the ideas...
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
Campaigner
Vampire
Vampire
Posts: 917
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Campaigner

Re: Igromir news

Postby Campaigner » Nov 8 2010, 23:06

Avonu wrote:1) The system of heroes abilities is completely reprocessed. Now there are no primary and secondary skills or abilities, aren't present perks, there are no separate spells. All abilities which hero can receive, now earning by "ability points". This system is similar to system World of Warcraft.


This is really the sledgehammer to the series that one reviewer of Heroes V wanted. I think it's good changes since I think it's time for a change. (And I believe that Ubisoft and Blackhole knows what their doing.)


2) About magic I wasn't described: now magic is ability too, so magic spells are added as ability, instead of are learned in Magic guild or somewhere. (Accordingly, the Magic guild is eliminated).


I think this is a good change. This will make factions and heroes that rely more on magic more powerful and dependable since now you wont get hosed as you would in older Heroes games when you gotted Mage Guild lvl 3, 4 and 5.


4) The Beta test will be obligatory, and Ťextending circlesť, gradually covering all most part of "fans". And these "circles" will start with offices Ubisoft to France and the USA, and also from Hungary (where Heroes are developed) and Romania (where they are "plentifully tested). At present still it is considered that game is at an alpha version stage as not still placeholders are replaced with real elements.


Not interested in Betas after the Heroes V beta. They're boring

6) Dragons will disappear in Heroes VI as units of 7th level, but will appear in it as "bosses". It is made intend: too strong units dragons turn out but if absolutely to clean them from game � it turns out boringly (and doesn't match the game Universe).


I support this. No more dragon at every top tier. Wonder what we'll get instead :)

7) The Damage magic will be strongly weakened, that the Magic-hero couldn't take out the whole army of Might-hero almost alone. The magic will play "a support" role along with another traditional abilities.


I wondered if that mechanic was EVER gonna change! Balancing Might vs Magic has never worked in any Heroes game so about time they got rid of it! I like this change.

I'm surprised to see an overwhelming majority of you being so negative to the changes. It's like you look at the past with rosecolored glasses, ignoring the flaws of the previous games.

I'm very critical of the Point of Control though and slightly critical about the great cut in resoures. I would have settled for Gold, Crystal, Wood & Ore though.

Sometimes you have to tear the whole thing down and rebuild instead of adding on all the time.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23263
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Nov 9 2010, 7:55

I'm surprised to see an overwhelming majority of you being so negative to the changes. It's like you look at the past with rosecolored glasses, ignoring the flaws of the previous games.


The changes here are mostly to some stuff that most people wanted changed... it's just that they kinda went to far in the other direction...


It's just not the same dungeon faction without a Black Dragon at lvl 7. And balancing magic by making it might and magic heroes be the same is lame (you hear me WotC?). And buffs and debuffs where way more OP then dmg magic once you got past the start of the game...
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
Meandor
Blood Fury
Blood Fury
Posts: 478
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: Lithuania

Postby Meandor » Nov 9 2010, 20:13

I think everyone understands that whole purpose of this simplification is to attract mainstream consumers and make game faster so that more people would play multiplayer because multiplayer is the hot stuff these days. But looking at that gameplay video... Gameplay looks as slow as ever. Call of Duty player won`t become hardcore H6 player just because it has less types of resources than previous Heroes games. So what good all this simplification/streamlining will do?

And can`t some games just be fun? Why do we nead this balancing nonsense in all games? H2 and H3 had some serious balance flaws but they were fun and their flaws didn`t stop people with coming up with house rules for their little "leagues" to make game more balanced.

Meh.
...


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests