The Chaos Conspiracy has been released!

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Levin Malma
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Postby Levin Malma » Oct 31 2013, 22:10

Salamandre wrote:I don't recall any restriction on jump, try to reload before entering air guild. Anyway, interesting scrolls (even fly) can be found on reload in chernoburg.

Hurry to finish adept promotion, all your problems will be gone once fly is in book.


The only problem is that the air guilds' offerings do not change on reloading. I'm banned from the air guild in Port Sleigon since I'm not a master. But can't be a master without adept promotion. But can't get even the first promotion without jump. Catch 22.
I don't see why was it necessary to ban everyone under master level from the guilds, it is a very serious disappointment. Now the gameplay turned into a travelling and reloading game, hoping there will be a jump scroll somewhere. But there is none. Whats the point in that?

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Postby Salamandre » Nov 1 2013, 9:14

I played it 4 times, last time solo. First time I thought as you, why this, why that. Once finished first time, replayed and enjoyed it more than original, harder, better balance, better quests, faster experience, better weapons, all you can dream.

Guilds change spells on reload if you DID NOT enter yet during that town visit. Once you enter, you can't reload anymore. I don't see why we need jump, adept promotion is the easiest quest. But maybe I forget some details, anyway, I did not have your problems.

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 1 2013, 10:03

Salamandre wrote: I don't see why we need jump, adept promotion is the easiest quest. But maybe I forget some details, anyway, I did not have your problems.


I would be glad to be able to fulfill it without jumping, but I don't have an idea to do so. You have to go up to that north-east ramp over the room with the fire-floor. There is simply no other way but jumping in my opinion. If anyone has another clue of the solution, please help because I'm stuck without jumping.

:(

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 1 2013, 11:32

Salamandre wrote: I don't see why we need jump, adept promotion is the easiest quest.


I forgot to mention, not the adept but the enchanter quest is I'm stuck with! My characters are still mages.

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Postby Salamandre » Nov 1 2013, 18:08

Ok, I just checked, jump is available at the creation guild in Demon claw. Reload until you get it.

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 4 2013, 15:30

Salamandre wrote:Ok, I just checked, jump is available at the creation guild in Demon claw. Reload until you get it.


Ok, I've got it. Thanks for your time and effort a lot. :D

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 6 2013, 8:25

Advancing in the game, I encountered a serious issue which can be a bug or a feature - can't decide. Only thing is for sure that I1m pretty upset by this time.
I got the quest to go to the fortress of the ancients and get the dark master nomination. My adept was expert in dark, level 23. After the nomiantion he became a master of dark magic on level 11!
Please tell me that this is only a bug and not some designer's brilliant idea. After a long struggle to develop my adepts I unexpectedly lost a huge amount of skill points in a moment. This is unacceptable.
If it is a bug, it must be corrected. But if it is something by design, I guess the desidner should not bother designing role playing games.

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Postby Salamandre » Nov 6 2013, 17:44

Hey, don't be so harsh, actually you are playing the only mod available for mm6 and for free :D

I think he used same pattern as with barrels, once you have one, one of your skills go up to specific value. As there is no need to upgrade dark expert to 23 before master, he gives those points for free. Those who already upgraded more will lose them.

Anyway, this IS not an issue and he knew it. There are bunch of trainers available for free, use one to restore your points in dark, I would not call it cheat in this situation.

There is never perfect design, for everyone's taste. Look at original MM6, how flawed is, you get fly on day 1, then head to dragons, get +20 stats asap. Then you can get expert air in few days, then fly, then town portal, is this good design for you? At least this mod has not such shortcuts.

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 8 2013, 23:37

Salamandre wrote:
There is never perfect design, for everyone's taste. Look at original MM6, how flawed is, you get fly on day 1, then head to dragons, get +20 stats asap. Then you can get expert air in few days, then fly, then town portal, is this good design for you? At least this mod has not such shortcuts.


Basically I think a good RPG design is about flexibility, and lack of any unwanted, illogical elements. The great thing is about the original MM6 is that you can play the game in any style you want. Yes, you can have the fly scroll on day 1, but you don't have to use it. No one holds a gun to your head to soft-cheat. Again, you can start the game with four knights (I did it several times) and there will be no flying and beaconing neither in the early nor in the late game. It's up to you, it is your game, you can destroy it or build it for yourself.
In this mod I find that flexibility is bleeding from a lot of wounds. I had to follow the designer's path because other options are not open. It was frustrating to get skills on expert level which I never wanted, and be forced to learn an otherwise totally useless skill on master level (diplomacy). But you are right; this is a free mod, so I won't complain about this. But stealing dozens of skill points from a character all of a sudden, it is a whole different thing. In every universe I know this is called a bug, and a serious one. And if the designer was aware about this, then the bug is in him, not in the program.
To develop a character to expert dark level 23 is my call, and nothing of the designer's business. There was a concepction behind it and the game destroyed it completely, without any reason. Looking back I would say it was a waste of skill points anyway, because the best way to kill the mosters in the late phase of the game is sword and arrows. So I would not develop a character this way again. But I want to discover this through my own learnings, not as a consequence of the designer's decision.
That's my point.

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 9 2013, 15:03

In the meantime I have won part 1, saved my game and installed part 2. After loading the saved file in part 2, my party started over the sea near Sutter's Bay, died immediatelly in the water and respawned in front of the city entrance with no money, level 1, while the city is full of bone dragons. They kill me before I even have a chance to click the mouse. 8| I died about 30 times and got tired of it.
Am I doing something wrong again? But it is hard to imagine what because I do not have the time to do a single thing before dying. ;|

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Postby Salamandre » Nov 9 2013, 16:17

Click the mouse? Hit enter to pause then cast water walk, but you shouldn't see sutter bay of anything old. All the TTC2 maps are new.

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Postby Arret » Nov 9 2013, 19:28

Part 2 is a completely different playstyle. Cast water walk and if necessary jump up.

Everything will have a ton of hp (some have over 17k), and you won't be able to beat the game (as intended, we can tell you how to cheese it if necessary) if you forgot to pick up several spells in part 1 (most notably telekinesis).

The last dungeon in the game really cranks the difficulty to just about impossible.

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Postby terabyte » Nov 10 2013, 15:19

Hi guys. I would love to play TCC. I'm on a netbook so I don't play with CDs. I got a gog.com version of mm6 and i downloaded the mod and followed all directions. Now when I go to start the game, i get a "please insert disc 2" error message. What to do?? =[

edit: i just replaced the original files for mm6 and it gives me the same error regarding the disc

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Postby Salamandre » Nov 10 2013, 17:11

First you have to patch the original game with this:
https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm#TOC-GrayFace-MM6-Patch-v1.11.2

Then install TCC, then play. Grayface patch has option NO CD in *ini file, make sure it is set to 1.

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Postby terabyte » Nov 10 2013, 19:23

Thank you! I figured it out shortly after posting.

Now where the hell is this woman lol. Great game so far.

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 11 2013, 9:03

Salamandre wrote:Click the mouse? Hit enter to pause then cast water walk, but you shouldn't see sutter bay of anything old. All the TTC2 maps are new.


There is something odd going on here. After loading saved game in part 2, my characters are level 1, no spells, no money, no NPC-s. They die instantly as they hit the water after falling down from the air over the sea near Sutter's bay. So there is nothing to do with it.
I followed the instructions after finishing part 1, but I'm sure there is something wrong happened inbetween. Anybody having a similar experience after loading part 2?

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Postby Levin Malma » Nov 11 2013, 9:08

Arret wrote:Part 2 is a completely different playstyle. Cast water walk and if necessary jump up.

Everything will have a ton of hp (some have over 17k), and you won't be able to beat the game (as intended, we can tell you how to cheese it if necessary) if you forgot to pick up several spells in part 1 (most notably telekinesis).

The last dungeon in the game really cranks the difficulty to just about impossible.


Telekinesis? 8| i have never bothered to learn earth magic since it is totally useless. Same with spirit and mind magic. If part 2 is not palyable without these please let me know and i won't waste time on this then. ;|

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Postby tolich » Nov 11 2013, 10:41

Levin Malma wrote:Telekinesis? 8| i have never bothered to learn earth magic.
Telekinesis is Mind in MM VI. You seem to dislike it anyway.

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Postby Tress » Nov 11 2013, 12:10

Telekinesis is Mind in MM VI. You seem to dislike it anyway


It's sort of cool spell (no matter mind or earth school), but honestly how many times per game we actually use it. There are couple switches you can cheese in mm6, and couple corners you can cut, but all in all, I think it's use can be counted on both hands.

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Postby tolich » Nov 11 2013, 14:08

tress wrote:how many times per game we actually use it
When I found that Telekinesis scroll doesn't disappear when used, I've started picking monsters' corpses with it, esp. when they seem to fall into waters. Alas, Grayface's patch ruins all fun. :D


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