My 0.0268868 cents worth......

[Engioc]

I was reading the On the Ethical Question of Cloning article by Corribus and it inspried me to make some of my own comments about the MM series and games in general....

Initial comments on - On the Ethical Question of Cloning - article
MMIX vs the past
HOMM3 vs 4 vs 5 vs and maybe the past
Hard Core Gamers
NWC vs 3DO vs Ubi
My views on the game biz in general


Initial comments on - On the Ethical Question of Cloning - article:
No this is not a complaint so to the person who wrote that article I want to say your absolutly right with everything you said, I couldn't agree with you more. This post is to have my say about the state of the MM, HOMM series, and (no complaints) people you referred to as Hardcore gamers, which is exactly what I am. Below are my views, As a Hardcore gamer and Hardcore MM/HOMM fan:


MM9 vs the past:

I'm a might and magic fan right from the start, I purchased MM1 when it was first released in 82 and became instantly addicted. All the games from MM1 - MM5 (including WOX) were great, the game got bigger and better which each step, the graphics were ok, the sound was ok, and the stories were excellent. Then for a while I was wondering if there would ever be a MM6, it had been quite a few years since I had seen any new titles, and HOMM series was doing so well I thought maybe Jon was never going to get back to the MM series. Finally MM6 came out, and it was great, had some disappointing aspects such as not moving in turned based combat, only humans in party, but all in all it was a solid game and I was just happy to be back play MM. MM7 and 8 came out and by the time I was playing 8 the graphics, and the ideas for stories, quests, puzzles were getting rather boring and stale. I really think the series was becoming a much dumbed down game, all the quests/puzzles became just a series of switches and levers in order to solve the mystery, and not much else was done to keep things interesting. However I still enjoyed these games.

MM9 is where the real problems start. Before it was released I had mixed feelings about this game, I was hoping the much praised litech??? engine was going to really make a worthwhile difference to graphics, but at the same time I was worried this would become just another first person shooter, and to be honest it seems the latter is what happened. The graphics in this game are ok, but I cant honestly say it looks that much better than MM6-8. The story was still good, but the way the whole game played and felt just put me off and made it seem like NOT a might and magic. I would of been quite happy for the graphics of MM6-8 to be used in 9, and retain the existing feeling from those games. What really needed to be done was to spice up the stories, quests, puzzles and get away from all the switches/levers and come up with something new, or the unthinkable.... look at the past for ideas. MM8 wasn't boring because of the graphics, it was because nothing at all changed except the story, in fact I think the graphics are worse, plus when I try to play any of those games now, well I can get MM6 working in XP no probs, but with the added 3D MM7-8 dont work on XP without a lot of messing around, and luck... I think 3DO got a dud with the litech engine, personaly I think they should of just re-developed or designed a completely new engine of their own tailored to what people expect from MM games...Yes I guess this would of meant a longer gap between these games, but I dont care if it means a better game. I'm sure many people will disagree with that, but I think the worst thing in the games industry these days is the need to rush titles to market to make their money and not enough effort and thought about the games content, the only concern these days is for the latest graphics and sound. My only concern with this series now is if Ubi will ever decide to create a true MM RPG, dark messiah does not count as an RPG, its a sequel to LOMM. I believe MM9 had so much potential but for what ever reasons 3DO and NWC couldn't deliver, and to be honest I have my doubts if anyone else can, but I'll wait and see.


HOMM3 vs 4 vs 5 vs and maybe the past:

Well of course the article to which I refer concentrates specifically on HOMM series. Again I loved this series right from the start with Kings Bounty. I was at my local games shop one day and saw the NWC logo on a box called HOMM1, I picked it up, not knowing anything about it, saw the screen shots on the back and bought it immidiately. What a fantastic game it turned out to be. I'll cut this one a little shorter, I loved MM2 and expansion pack, H3 too, and what may surprise some people is, as a hardcore gamer and MM fan I loved H4 but.... I dont like armies without a hero, and I dont like armies of nothing but heroes, it is without any doubt the biggest mistake made for a game titled HEROES of might and magic. Dispite this problem I do enjoy playing it, and the editor is the best yet. So much power to create maps I could never do in previous versions, the scripting had me stuck for a while but now I got that sorted, its great. I've read comments about the graphics were not good enough, multiplayer being originally left out until the expansions/patch, and about the AI. I was a fan very upset at not having MP but once this was added I was fine. Some people went back to HOMM3, well I still play them all, because I love each of the HOMM games for different reasons, I appriciate the differences.

HOMM4 is just another game that kept the series interesting I can mess around with heroes more, I can create great maps, I had to get used to changes in creatures, spells etc. HOMM3 was so huge in numbers for MP, creatures, artifacts etc etc. HOMM2 is great because its smaller, simple, easy and quick to play. HOMM1 has cute graphics and again its just a simple easy to play game. Kings Bounty, yes I do still play it, nice single player quest simple to play and a reminder of the past. HOMM5, as a hardcore gamer I wont abandon the series, I will buy this new game just out of pure curiosity to see just what Ubi can do. I might hate it, I might love it, I'll wait and see, and any of REAL fan of this series should do the same, from what I see and read it sounds promising, for those who say its too much like HOMM3, as a hardcore fan I am glad and comforted to know they are smart enough to look at the past and go back to what made this series successful in the first place. Radical changes can come later, just get the series back on track to begin with.


Hard Core Gamers:

Well the article - On the Ethical Question of Cloning - talks about us hardcore gamers/fans. I consider myself to be a hardcore fan of MM and games in general. I bought MM1 when it was first released on Apple II, then on a C64 along with buying and copying many other games of any genre you care to name. I was even crazy enough to buy LOMM, COMM, WOMM, and hated the 3 of them. Hardcore gamers do need to get real sometimes, I do amit emotion about a game I've loved for so long gets me making comments without thinking first, but I never hated NWC or the series. It seems from that article many fans/gamers are unhappy with HOMM4 and still unhappy because Ubi are not making enough changes, but yet as this article explains it was too many changes that killed HOMM4.

When 3DO went bust I was quite happy, I never liked them anyway, my only concern was what happened to the games. Ubi bought the franchise, and like everyone else I wasn't sure what would happen to the series, how much it might change. I'm one fan who is happy to hear they have looked at the past. I would much rather have a game I know, I dont want another radical change, I want to be sure this is HOMM and not something else, a game that goes back to HOMM3 is a very sensible move and something I'm extremely happy to hear. So as a hardcore, long time, fan and gamer I loved HOMM3, HOMM4 and looking forward to the future.


NWC vs 3DO vs Ubi:

NWC - the guys that started it all and a company I will never forget, I wish in some way they were still involved now. I feel a bit sad to know that the creator of this great series is no longer involved. I credit this company with everything that is good in the Might and Magic universe and I dont blame them for any of its failures.

3DO - well a company I never liked and always made me wonder how long the series would last. I dont know exactly when they bought NWC I guess sometime just before the release of the HOMM2 expansion. I credit this company with nothing except failure. HOMM2 was not made by 3DO, they just took the credit because of buying NWC as the game was ready for release. HOMM3, well yes I guess this was a success but I give the credit to NWC not 3DO, 3DO just provided the money. MM1-5 were produced by NWC alone, and I believe MM6 was too, again 3DO just bought NWC when the game was already in development and ended up a success because of NWC not 3DO. MM7, 8 and 9, well you can see the steady decline as 3DO take control and run this series into the ground. LOMM, COMM, WOMM are all examples of failures produced by 3DO and only served to cheapen the name Might and Magic. Good ridence 3DO, I'm glad your gone, its just a shame you took NWC down with you.

Ubisoft:
When I heard they purchased the series I went and registered on their website immidiately. I was still worried about what the future would be for the franchise, but were happy to wait and see. HOMM is looking good, I have no interest in Dark Messiah, it seems like a LOMM remake. Will there be another MM RPG game??? I hope so, but please dont bring out an action first person shooter like Dark Messiah and pretend its a RPG, surely I am not the only gamer who would be interested in a quality RPG, a REAL RPG. I hope Ubi are brave enough to do it. Remember before Baldurs Gate there were people saying RPG was dead, how wrong they were. Make a quality RPG like MM, go down the same road as you are doing with HOMM and look to the past, and I think people will buy it. Hit my RPG-Spot Ubi.


My views on the game biz in general:

Some general thoughts of gaming industry. These days it seems the things that matter most are graphics, not story or content. The game shop shelves are filled with edless amounts of first person shooters and Real Time Strategy games.

First Person Shooters are ok, not a genre I care for much, I did play wolfenstein (the original), and Doom, they were ok but I was never addicted to these games. Such boaring ideas running around in endless corridors and tunnels shooting everything you see, not much brain power involved in playing these games. Later I bought Outlaws, I appriciated a game which finally provided something a bit different in the genre, the wild west theme made it great, specially in MP, but still not a game I think of as a classic. There are always more of these types of games being made, and I cant see much difference or improvement in any of them, other than graphics. They all involve the same idea, roaming endless tunnels, corridores or something else killing everything in your path with a variety of weapons, no need to reload your gun just pick up another, heal yourself in 2 seconds, and just as brainless as ever.

Real Time Strategy games are ok too, I got Total Annihilation, Age of Empires 1 and 2, and at one point had Dark Reign, Warcraft and several others. Enjoyed playing them, still do, but again it seems that most of these games just copy the same idea, no real improvements get made and nothig to make me want to buy another game that offers the same experience. My biggest problem with these games though is simply the title real time strategy???? what strategy??? none at all, no strategy, there are some tactical decisions, not many but a few, but definately no strategical decisions. Your number 1 aim in any of these games is to produce a *@%$ load of units faster than the other guy and get over there and kill him. There really isn't that much thinking to be done in these games, its all about speed.

My problem with these games is just the fact that it seems almost all games these days need to be in those genre. An example of this is I was stupid enough to buy the latest version of Settlers from Ubi, but this is NOT the Settlers at all, but a totally different game, too many of those radical changes again. It now offers me the same thing I can get from Age of Empires, sure the graphics are better, sounds are nice, but really its just the same game as so many others. Its not that I dislike these games, but just that I like a variety of games and genre to play, I dont want every game to give me the same experience. The old settlers games did that, they were different, I didn't go around telling each individual what their job was, infact my control over each unit was none in most cases, and I liked that, they had a mind of their own, my job was just laying down the foundations for buildings, guiding them, not telling them, they did the work on their own. Now like every other game I must tell each unit his/her job, get this resource, get that resource, hey dumbo that mines empty go do this one, nobody has a brain any more. Why cant anyone be brave enough to produce something that isn't a First person shooter or real time strategy game??? I guess everyone will say money, but I dont agree, and I'll tell you why...

Some companies, generally smaller ones, still produce games that don't fall into one of those two categories. Example is a game called Port Royale, an excellent game offering me an experience I cant get in many other titles and its refreshing to find a company who are brave enough to make games like this. Want a better example, what about Civilization, it hasn't really changed much over the years, but still going very strong. NO radical changes to the fundamentals of the game, its still turn based, the game just gets bigger and better each time, and sometimes the graphics go up a notch. Sid Meier hasn't fallen to the popular idea that to make money you need to follow the same road as everyone else and make real time strategy or first person shooter games.

I guess all I'm really saying is I believe any genre of game can make money, RPGs, Turn based strategy, Real time strategy, first person shooters, Sims, God games, companies just need to be brave enough and realise that there's enough gamers to purchase any genre and they can make their money. Maybe another genre of game can make just as much money as they got from the few people who decided to purchase the Settlers instead of Age of Empires. Yes games are just a business, but surely it makes business sense to be bold sometimes and be the only one to produce a game in a genre that nobody else is bothering about. Only so much money can be made from one of two genres of gaming, and still plenty of people willing to pay good money for something a little different. Example, The Sims. A bit boring once you played it, but its a big hit because its offers an experience found nowhere else. Rollercoaster Tycoon, another big hit because the guy was brave enough to produce something different. There are so many genre that seem to almost of been forgotten about these days, I cant remember the last time I saw a good quality flight sim apart from MS.

Another game which gets my praise these days is Grand Theft Auto, another game which I believe gives me an experience no other game offers, or at least not to the same level as GTASA.


Anyway I guss I should be quiet and go now, I said too much already. Maybe I typed all this rubbish and nobody will even view it. Bye people.

[Gaidal Cain]

Anyway I guss I should be quiet and go now, I said too much already. Maybe I typed all this rubbish and nobody will even view it. Bye people.

Well, rest assured that at least one person managed to read all of your piece. I agree with most of what you say, but from what I heard, NWC were the ones who made the decision to create the newer spinoff titles (LoMM etc). Not saying that it doesn't feel much better now with 3DO having gone the way of the dodo and having Ubi at the rudder, but it wasn't as simple as NWC=good Guys and 3DO=bad guys.

[Corribus]

That's probably a record for longest first post (or damn near close to a record). I read it all, too, so that's two people. Probably this topic doesn't belong in the campfire, but anyway - I agreed with most of what you said, except for the bit about DMoMM. I'm actually looking forward to what they do with it.

p.s. I'm glad you liked the original article.

[gravyluvr]

3rd read!

I give people hell too, but this series is such a big part of my life, that I am likely to buy just about anything they put if for no other reason than as a collector.

[theLuckyDragon]

4th, and I must say you're right about Civilization. Such a great game, and I've never heard anyone complain about it as I have about other games.

Reading your post made me think of a game series that I liked very much: the City Building Games. I've spent countless hours with Pharaoh, Zeus and Emperor; those games were actually very educational (the in-game help also included historical information about the respective civilizations) and in the same time relaxing. I don't remember ever being more satisfied with a game than when I had finished building Xian for the third time in Emperor, or Atlantis in Zeus/Poseidon, or Saqqara in Pharaoh. I wonder... what happened to that company that produced them? Impressions it was called, I think.

Me, I think I'm a "collector" just like gravyluvr -- I've always liked the Heroes series from the moment I first played Long Live the Queen.

[Angelspit]

4th, and I must say you're right about Civilization. Such a great game, and I've never heard anyone complain about it as I have about other games.

You were probably sleeping while Civilization III was released then!

[theLuckyDragon]

I never complained about it... What was wrong with Civ3? I admit, I've only had it for a few years, because back when it was first released, my computer wasn't good enough for it, so I didn't bother too much.

[gravyluvr]

yesterday I made some comments regarding my beliefs about 3DO, NWC and who was to blame for the failure of MM9 and HOMM4. I read this article which is an interview with JVC and his feelings about what happened and I find it quite interesting because it seems to me he also blames 3DO for the problems.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 2#continue

So while is not clear exactly what happened and maybe my views yersterday might seem like a simplistic view on things, this interview seems to suggest exactly the same things I believe.

This was in the duplicate thread...

CGW: You must have made some valiant appeals on behalf of New World with some of 3DO’s decisions—did they fall on deaf ears? Or were the execs just clueless?

JVC: Yes, you would think that the advice from probably the only game designer with two Hall of Fame series, in two different genres spanning two decades, might know something about development! Bah! Deaf ears, clueless—call it what you want. I gave up.

I have to imagine that this is the way that writer's feel about adaption of their books to the Silver Screen.

I do think that it would be great to get back some of the magic. If I were Ubisoft, I would think of some ways to go waaaaaaaay back and to develop remakes of the original games in this series. A modern adaption of the Might and Magic 1-5 titles would sell very well since the games are so old that they would have a totally new audience and the games could be "modernized" and/or "improved."

[HodgePodge]

In my humble opinion, 3do ruined NWC because they were in it just for the money … just like UbiSoft is. I believe UbiSoft is just as greedy … and the feelings & concerns of the fans falls on deaf ears.

In spite of 3do's shortcomings, at least their customer service was top notch. I received help from them (via telephone) on several occasions … they were always happy to lend assistance. No so with UbiSoft! Their customer service is horrible. When anyone writes about a problem, their best answer is "it must be the customer's fault" and give little or no help at all.

Not only that but UbiSoft is the most strongly autocratic & forces its dictatorial control on any type of freedom of expression as any forum I've ever been to. No one is allowed to even discuss the StarForce issue anymore without the threat of being banned from UbiSoft's site altogether and forever. This type of conduct & attitude toward their customers is reprehensible & repugnant!

[DaemianLucifer]

I will buy this new game just out of pure curiosity to see just what Ubi can do. I might hate it, I might love it, I'll wait and see, and any of REAL fan of this series should do the same

Its one thing to be a fan of a series,but completely another to be a mindles zombie fanatic.Im not going to be brainwashed by any product,no matter how good it is.

It seems from that article many fans/gamers are unhappy with HOMM4 and still unhappy because Ubi are not making enough changes, but yet as this article explains it was too many changes that killed HOMM4.

For a sequel to survive you need to make changes.Sure,it is nice they are reverting to a more stable game,but removing every aspect that was good on paper but with bad implementation without a second thought is lazy and stupid.The HIII should be just a foundation,nothing more.But we have HIII being a foundation,walls,roof,pluming,instalations and carpeting,and all of the inovationons are just pieces of furniture and paint.They do make the house a bit diferent,but not diferent enough to be called a sequel.And more important thing is that this furniture and paint arent unique,but just bland and clicheish(couldnt find a better word,too tired).

Some general thoughts of gaming industry. These days it seems the things that matter most are graphics, not story or content. The game shop shelves are filled with edless amounts of first person shooters and Real Time Strategy games.

Yes,this is the sad truth.But it wouldnt matter if those were original games(like thief,deus ex,EE,C&C,etc),which they unfortunatelly arent.

First Person Shooters are ok, not a genre I care for much, I did play wolfenstein (the original), and Doom, they were ok but I was never addicted to these games. Such boaring ideas running around in endless corridors and tunnels shooting everything you see, not much brain power involved in playing these games. Later I bought Outlaws, I appriciated a game which finally provided something a bit different in the genre, the wild west theme made it great, specially in MP, but still not a game I think of as a classic. There are always more of these types of games being made, and I cant see much difference or improvement in any of them, other than graphics. They all involve the same idea, roaming endless tunnels, corridores or something else killing everything in your path with a variety of weapons, no need to reload your gun just pick up another, heal yourself in 2 seconds, and just as brainless as ever.

Well you should play thief,deus ex,half life or.Those quallify as FPSs,but arent as bland as the other ones.Although their sequels(thief 3,deus ex 2,HL2 and 2 sucumbed to the unoriginality demon)

Real Time Strategy games are ok too, I got Total Annihilation, Age of Empires 1 and 2, and at one point had Dark Reign, Warcraft and several others. Enjoyed playing them, still do, but again it seems that most of these games just copy the same idea, no real improvements get made and nothig to make me want to buy another game that offers the same experience. My biggest problem with these games though is simply the title real time strategy???? what strategy??? none at all, no strategy, there are some tactical decisions, not many but a few, but definately no strategical decisions. Your number 1 aim in any of these games is to produce a *@%$ load of units faster than the other guy and get over there and kill him. There really isn't that much thinking to be done in these games, its all about speed.

Not quite true.Although speed is of the esence,there are some exceptions.Games that have pause in SP(like EE),and games that have many diferent strategies you can use as effective as any other(like starcraft),or some breaking games like homeworld are excetpions.But the rest are the same though.

And yes,civ is an excelent example of a series being true in every sequel(and the only one I can think of that still is).Each part of it becomes more complex,but still the heart of the game stays.Even in civIV which is simplified(automated actually) so that newbies can quickly get the hag of it,Yet even more complicated than the previous one(adding religion is really a big step and influences the game greatly).Why couldnt the heroes be simplified like this?Why are they being dumbed down instead of simplified?

About the rest of the article,I agree that games are being watered down,and I too mourn what the setlers became.But as the movies,games are becoming a mass product just falling from the conveyor belt straight into shops and waiting for someone who has nothing better to do to buy them.Its a rarity these days to find a quallity game

About DMMoM,I really am looking forward to it,since it doesnt seem like it will be a bland FPS,but more like morrowind,which I liked.

That's probably a record for longest first post (or damn near close to a record)

You arent holding that record?I dont believe it!And I wont believe it either!

[Orfinn]

Not only that but UbiSoft is the most strongly autocratic & forces its dictatorial control on any type of freedom of expression as any forum I've ever been to. No one is allowed to even discuss the StarForce issue anymore without the threat of being banned from UbiSoft's site altogether and forever. This type of conduct & attitude toward their customers is reprehensible & repugnant!

Bungie and Lionhead Studios should teach them a lesson or two, those companies have a great customer service!

[Corribus]

You arent holding that record?I dont believe it!And I wont believe it either!

Well, I might be holding the record for longest post ever (I am not sure) - but longest FIRST post? I don't think so... this one was longer than my first post, I'm pretty sure.

[ThunderTitan]

I will buy this new game just out of pure curiosity to see just what Ubi can do. I might hate it, I might love it, I'll wait and see, and any of REAL fan of this series should do the same

Man, i'm sure glad that i'm a TRUE fan, not a REAL one then.

[DaemianLucifer]

You arent holding that record?I dont believe it!And I wont believe it either!

Well, I might be holding the record for longest post ever (I am not sure) - but longest FIRST post? I don't think so... this one was longer than my first post, I'm pretty sure.

I think that Dragon Angel has the longest post

[Corribus]

I'm sure I could beat that if I put some effort into it.

[Vlad976]

That depends on if the new RT allows longer posts.

[gravyluvr]

In my humble opinion, 3do ruined NWC because they were in it just for the money … just like UbiSoft is. I believe UbiSoft is just as greedy … and the feelings & concerns of the fans falls on deaf ears.

... No so with UbiSoft! Their customer service is horrible. When anyone writes about a problem, their best answer is "it must be the customer's fault" and give little or no help at all.

Sometimes I feel like Ubisoft is the substitute teacher of the class. JVC and his NWC company developed a beautiful game. They tried to grow and partnered with 3d0 since the 3d0 console would allow JVC to develop his games for multiplayer online. The console fizzled and 3d0 came to depend on the NWC titles more than the other way around. It wasn't planned, but it just happened that way. Eventually the relationship ended with 3d0's bankruptcy.

Player's in general don't really realize what kind of relationship gamemaker and publisher had and they don't really care (why should they?). They just liked the game. 3d0 did a lot of things wrong (hence bankruptcy) but they also did several things very well, including customer service. And throughout that entire relationship, NWC continued to make the games we fell in love with, although toward's the end, the needed resources (time and money) were just not made available since 3d0's financial position was much different after HOMM4 (2002) than HOMM3 (1999) and HOMM2 (1996). In 1996, NWC was sold to 3d0. From 1996-2003, the games that NWC developed were all published by 3d0. In addition, since 3d0 owned NWC, they would decide the reources and what NWC would develop.

So now we have a new publisher (Ubisoft) and a new developer (Nival) who have both been thrown in front of the class (us). If they had a new class, it would be easier, but our class had been in session since the 80s with Might and Magic and since 95 with HOMM (91 with King's Bounty).

They have got to do better than just showing up with their prepared plan and trying to conduct class. They need to engage the class and develop some trust. I think Fabrice has tried very hard to engage the fanbase, but we are a fickle crowd. My hope is that the longer Ubisoft and Nival have with the fanbase and in the development, the closer our collective wants, wishes and needs are served. Until then, there will continue to be discontent on many issues.