New Heroes 4 Map for Testing: The Eyes

[Muszka]

Now I have an Equi editor, and I had taken a look on the map. Marvelous work.
About the MoE, I still don't know if it's defeatable on Champion, but it has some chance. What makes me worried is the hero and not his army. 900 Evil Eyes are a lot in the 10th week, but the hero itself is a threat mainly because of the high defense.
If is defeatable in any way than, it must be in a siege.
I'll give it a shot or two, and I think I'll do it with Order, hypnotize can be the key.

[Akul]

Played the patched version with Green player (modded Necropolis) on Intermediate difficulty and... Teal player kicked me out of the game on week 3.

Teal player is a bit overpowered on Intermediate. Big army, good heroes, no movement penalty and many portals allowed him to defeat my smaller army and grass penalty disalows me to defeat him manovering, like I did with Preserve.
IMO, Teal player can be challenging if you play with Haven or Preserve because they have no movement penalty, but can be a bit too challenging for less experienced players if they play with another faction. The fact that in this map time is important, this is a great disadvantage.
Necropolis, Stronghold and Academy should get a small boost with Asylum getting an smaller boost then former three (or none) because of their pathfinding skills in order for theme to stand in same position as Haven and Preserve.

Now, I'll take a rest, then plan a strategy and re-play with Green Haven to see hows the difficulty with it. Win or lose, I'll play with Blue Asylum after that.

[Muszka]

Now, I don't play intermediate, I only know, how could be, from looking at the scripts Humakt made for the map, but I don't think Necro should get any boost. His Vampires make it the easiest faction to play with. Later I received Vampiric Touch and my only true enemy on the map was the Dragon stack in purple's area, and the MoE if it would have been free. Stronghold can use Cyclopses with great effect + two might heroes should do it. Academy and his spells (forgetfullnes, slow, cowordice, precizion, teleport, blind, berserk, mass slow) make a piece of cake from many enemies. And when Hypnotize comes, you just have to stand there, and watch the puppet show.
Asylum has a fairly good start because of the damaging spells, until the Black Dragons.

All in all, I don't think that anyone should receive anything more. The map is playable and enjoyable. Though necro gets some advantage with Vampires and Order with Hypnotize, every faction can complete the map even on Champion diff.

[Humakt]

IMO, Teal player can be challenging if you play with Haven or Preserve because they have no movement penalty, but can be a bit too challenging for less experienced players if they play with another faction. The fact that in this map time is important, this is a great disadvantage.
Necropolis, Stronghold and Academy should get a small boost with Asylum getting an smaller boost then former three (or none) because of their pathfinding skills in order for theme to stand in same position as Haven and Preserve.

Now, I'll take a rest, then plan a strategy and re-play with Green Haven to see hows the difficulty with it. Win or lose, I'll play with Blue Asylum after that.

I'd like to know some army figures of yours and teal's had and also the hero levels. If they seem too inappropriate I consider dropping their (Teal's) bonuses.

There's no penalty on grass terrain for any faction. Maybe Life and Nature have some advantages on grass but manual at least doesn't tell how much.

Like Muszka, I don't think any specific faction should receive bonuses or penalties. Some factions may be harder to play on map than others (depending also on player's skill) but all does have a some chance. The map presents an opportunity to grow and develop as a player. It's not meant to be a map that is easy to complete and success after all.

I do have plans to post the final version of the map soon (perhaps even this weekend) as my other map, Erythia (H5 ToE map), has also been pretty much tested by now. I'm still going to put some more background story to the map and maybe some other things (perhaps I put Boots of the Crocodile somewhere) as well but those do not require testing. So I hope you two can make your final runs of the map before sunday if possible.

I'll still give a run of the map on novice to see if the MoE can be defeated.

[Muszka]

I'll still give a run of the map on novice to see if the MoE can be defeated.

Do you want it to be defeatable, or not?

P.S.:I also don't know of any advantage Heaven and Preserve has on grass.

[Humakt]

I'll still give a run of the map on novice to see if the MoE can be defeated.

Do you want it to be defeatable, or not?

On novice at least.

[Muszka]

Than I advice, that you should give that 99 defence by script, and only for intermediate and above. At least the half of it.

[Humakt]

Had a quick breeze on novice. Went straight to the gold mine (and liberated 10 lvl hero while at it). Defeated Blue at end of 2nd week and Teal soon afterwards (Teal had nice army actually). I'm on the third month and I'm still building 3 separate armies to get ready for Master of Eyes (I haven't of course captured purple town). I have 7 heroes already over level 20, and 3 GM Nobility Lords for each town to boost creature growth. I finish the map tomorrow but I have to say I like my chances.

[Humakt]

I beat Master of Eyes on novice. He attacked the easiest of my armies and beat it. But my second army already got him. Didn't even have to use my third army. That definitely makes Master of Eyes beatable.

Master of Eyes Ríng of Greater Negation backfires (I didn't remember it affects everyone), I think about removing that ring.

Found also pretty bad terrain error underground that blocked the path to tunnel. Not gamebreaking though. I upload the final map tomorrow.

[Muszka]

I completed the map again on Champion, with Order. Now with 4 days before MoE could emerge.
So it's OK without the Vamps. Even more, the Order is a ranged town, while Death is an anti-ranged town, so the map can be completed both ways.

But while with Death I could end the map with 2 & 1/2 weeks before MoE could emerge, and somewhat easily; with Order it was only 1/2 left, and it was a very edge-game, with a very edge play, neary every fight was on the limit, and there was no place for any mistake at all.

[Humakt]

The final version of the map is now uploaded to my site.

With Order it was only 1/2 left, and it was a very edge-game, with a very edge play, neary every fight was on the limit, and there was no place for any mistake at all.

That's how it is supposed to be.

Death is propably balanced for MP in Equilibris but clearing stacks with Vampires is pretty easy still in SP so it's no surprise you had easier time with Death.

[Muszka]

With Order it was only 1/2 left, and it was a very edge-game, with a very edge play, neary every fight was on the limit, and there was no place for any mistake at all.

That's how it is supposed to be.

Than you succeded by 99.9%
Congratulation for the great map.

[Muszka]

One more thing. I don't know how could I forgot. The shop disabled in the towns, it shortens you from some dwelling choices. Though it's not a major problem since I don't think anyone would like to build Dragon Golems or Champions, instead of Titan or Angels, and I don't know if there's any solution for it. But I just wanted to mention.

P.S.: I like Behemots better, but so it becomes disabled.

[Humakt]

Than you succeded by 99.9%
Congratulation for the great map.

Thanks.

One more thing. I don't know how could I forgot. The shop disabled in the tows, it shortens you from some dwelling choices.

I'm fully aware of that. I disabled the shops so no Immortality potions are available which has the unfortunate side effect of not being able to choose every creature.

I know I could have scripted the dwelling builds (not an easy script if you take couple things into consideration and the result would have been little cumbersome) but I chose to let player's live with limitations instead.

[Muszka]

I was aware of all that. But I could not think of a good alternative either.

[Akul]

You could have made a message that warns player that PI can't be used and put placed events around the map and few in towns that check if the army has a PI. If it has, a message could appear and a script would take the potion and return the gold back.

At least it could work in theory.

[Muszka]

Could also disable the potions already used, and still active on the hero?
Still it's a good idea.

[Akul]

I totally forgot that potions can be used that way. Well, at least you can't use more then one potion per hero and player would need to think if he sends the hero into a formidable battle.

What about a quest hut that builds the building for the same resources then?

[Muszka]

That's a good idea also. But I will be a teaser, and I will ask if it can be checked, if the 3rd lvl dwelling was built.

I like the other idea best, but I don't think Humakt will make any further change, and I can understand him.

P.S.:Sorry for being a teaser.

[Akul]

Is is never bad to be a teaser
I will reply with this then: disable the other building in town as well and make it possible to be built only via the hut.

Tough this is my idea, I ain't really fond of it myself because I never liked to build via quest huts. Still, it is fun to try to beat the editor.