List the Underpowered tier 7 Units!!!

[MrSteamTank]

I'm sorry if it's a bit of an offtopic but..

I just lik to say that I think you all are clinging too much to old homm games. you just want the old chritaristics of the creatures (likr arcdevils teleport or bonedragon 50% reesistence vs. ranged attacks) instead of accepting the new stuff nival did. which is a bit petty considering all the complaints about H5 being H3 3D.
at least try to think of other specials that could make those charecters better (like some of you r doing), like archdevils having a chance to teleport when attacked (as shown in the prologue movie when nicolai fights the devil) this way avoiding damage.. I don't know, some of are very original and take the time to think of gr8 ideas..

sorry for the offftopic again, just something that bothered me enough to write all of this down...

Ummm...new stuff? All the tier 7 are simply clones from h3 with different art. The only difference is they made bone/spectral dragons have less and more boring abilities. Replacing 50% ranged/physical dmg reduction and aging attack for a weak cursing attack? Black dragons are carbon copies of black dragons from the old games. Emerald dragons are just slightly faster, weaker black dragons with weaker magic immunity. Just like golds and greens in homm3. Titans are very similar to the previous incarnations save for call lightning. Angels and arch-angels? Clones. Devils and Arch-devils are also the same except they summon pitlords from bodies instead of ice demons and can't teleport the battlefield.

To be honest I'd love to see unique and powerful abilities differentiating the tier 7s. Unfortunately all I see is less interesting versions of the top units from heroes 3.

Give angels a morale aura, allow the green/emerald dragons acid breath to reduce defense with every attack(vulnerability style), give titans a lightning rod ability that forces all nearby spells to target him, let devils create portals when he teleports so the slower infernal units(pitlords & horned demons) can follow him into combat, etc.

The possibilities are endless. We just refer to h3 as that is a great place to snatch ability ideas. They could easily create their own.

[LordErtz]

NOW you are talking like I am thinking I want to see some unique awesome abilities. You say that would overpower the unit? NO WAY, not if you give the other level 7's equal footing...but right now level 7's are bland, boring, and not worth the 30-40k gold + resources you need to spend on just their dwellings...laaaaaame.

Level 7's should make you jump for joy when you get them because it's an honor and achievement. Right now when I get level 7's, I cry because all my resources are gone but I have nothing really to show for it :-/

[DaemianLucifer]

You mean they need an ability like battle dive,vorpal sword,lizard bite,etc?I agree completely.They need to be very special.I mean they are special now,too.But now they are special as in retarded

[LordErtz]

You mean they need an ability like battle dive,vorpal sword,lizard bite,etc?I agree completely.They need to be very special.I mean they are special now,too.But now they are special as in retarded

LMFAO...good call. I prefer pit lords to devils because pit lords are guaranteed 1 kill and can cast magic and have lots of HP. Devils and arch devils have HP but one can only cast a spell when one of your stacks is decimated, and the other can't even teleport and has NO special...LAAAAAAME.

[koganei83]

i think devils are bond dragons (and their respective upgrades) are all too weak... pit lords is much stronger than archdevils and a few crystal dragons can easily kill over 8 spectral dragons...

[asandir]

You mean they need an ability like battle dive,vorpal sword,lizard bite,etc?I agree completely.They need to be very special.I mean they are special now,too.But now they are special as in retarded

hehehe

it is odd that most of the really great abilities (and lizard bite is one of those) went to the lower tiered units, the tier 7's did miss out on some exciting possibilities

[Omega_Destroyer]

Level 7's should make you jump for joy when you get them because it's an honor and achievement. Right now when I get level 7's, I cry because all my resources are gone but I have nothing really to show for it :-/

I totally agree with that. It almost leaves me wanting a level 8 unit for each faction. Like WOG, but not mere upgrades of upgrades. Something more comprable to the Azure dragon, where you can only afford a few of them due to their extreme power.

[thecheese]

Level 8! Hoo, that'd be interesting. I think that either the cost of the lvl7 unit or their structure should be dramatically reduced, and by dramatically I'm talking like, maybe 200% of a lvl6 unit/structure's cost would equal the lvl7's. It makes complete sense that they kind of nerfed lvl 7's all around and buffed other units for the sake of balance, but it makes no sense that they made them cost limbs to make.

[DaemianLucifer]

Actually the cost makes sense,its the nerfing that doesnt.They are top tier,so they should be very hard to get.But once you get them you really should go "Wow!I have devils!!".I get lowering their initiative,but movement?Why can an angel go just as far as a pixie?

[thecheese]

Movement issues aside, it's just a new twist. I hear what you're saying, but you can't argue that in other heroes incarnations, the level 7th would make or break a game. Now that's all well and good, but it's apparently not what Nival wants anymore. Still, with all the buffing they've done to every other tier unit, I don't know why they don't restore a little more glory to the 7's.

[Meandor]

Actually the cost makes sense,its the nerfing that doesnt.They are top tier,so they should be very hard to get.But once you get them you really should go "Wow!I have devils!!".I get lowering their initiative,but movement?Why can an angel go just as far as a pixie?

They should have nerfed them and reduced their cost. Now they cost a lot and are nothing special. Another problem is town points. It looks nice and dandy that certain races can`t rush for 7lv, but... IIRC if you have unlimited resources you can build 7lv at the end of second weak. Since you will never have unlimited resources you`ll build them when? At the beggining of second month? Maybe even later? By that time you`ll have your 3-4 tier units in big numbers. If 7lv were as strong as in previous games it might be balanced in this way, but now your 3-4 tier units will be much more useful than few 7lv. After some time you cuold save up enough 7lv that they would become more useful thant tier 3-4, but in big battles 7lv go down like flies(compared to their cost) and enemy heroes butcher them.
So imho main problems with tier 7 is their cost(increase their stats or reduce their cost), it`s harder to rush them and they dies fast.

[MrSteamTank]

They don't even have to be stronger than regular units. Just give them abilities that complement your army well. If balance is an issue just put in a copy of the dragonslayer ability from homm2. A special anti-tier 7 spell that lets the other tiers beat them.

[LordErtz]

The problem with tier 7 units is not only that they have weak specialties at best, but that their un-upgraded parts are useless.


Angels have no ability
Shadow dragons have no real ability
Devils have no ability
Green dragons have no ability
colossus have no ability (they are buff though)
bone dragons have no ability


The very sad thing of it all, is that even when you upgrade them their abilities are weak, at best. So in order to get the most out of tier 7 units, you have to upgrade their dwelling, which costs you a total of about 30-40k gold and 30 resources. And then you only get 1-3 at max when you most likely already have 100's of other tier units. And a level 20+ hero can just do a regular attack or magic and wipe at least 1+ out.

[LordErtz]

http://elrath.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138


BAM! Some awesome heroes fan has beefed up the level 7 units!

Each now has the ability to cast mass spells or use more skills. Their hp is increased, so is the exp from them, and the COST is increased too (ok with me).

If you're looking for variety, try this on for size...I haven't tested but I'm going to do it now!




Academy - Titans: Chain Lightning - due to titans are the masters of lightning, its stupid when they dont have the spell.

Dungeon - Black Dragons: Mass Haste and Mass Slow - due to high spd atk back ground and dark magic background.

Haven - ArchAngels: 2 times to resurect allies and Mass Endurance - due to human spec of high def.

Inferno - ArchDevils: 2 times to summon pit lords (max summon for each devils is still 2 pit lords) and Mass Might - due to demon legend of crushing enemies with might.

Necropolis - Spectral Dragons: Adnimate Dead and Mass Decay - due to the souls of those dragons are from the sacrify of various necromancers hence they hold the necro power of animating the deaths plus the undead spec of decaying creatures.

Sylvan - Emerald Dragons: Summon Elementals and Mass Deflect Arrows - due to background of elements mastery of the wood elves and as the legend said, they have the finest archers thus they know how to minimize the arrows damages.

==========================================
Status added
==========================================
HP: + 1/3
Mana: use wisely, it has like 2 ways to be used up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) .
XP: x 3.5
Cost: + 1/3
All spells are casted under advance mastery.
New descriptions added.

[cornellian]

I agree that most tier seven units are lacking in might but I've also noticed that this might very well be the one in the series with the best balance between tiers. In the first three Heroes it was a race to top tier and many times the one that got before anyone else won, outnumbering enemy with a small margin like 1.5 to 1 was usually sufficient to almost guarantee victory. Not anymore, and I think I like it better this way...

However I'd love to have level 8 units, but they must really be very powerful.. They must really be scarce and/or obscenely expensive, must need a certain hero level to have, and should only be called for a large amount of money/resources..

For example, Haven town might build, say, a magnificient shrine for prophets of Elrath with a cost something like 75,000 gold and huge amount of resources, the prophets costing ~ 15-20,000 gold and many resources, and a hero of at least 20 to 'honor its followers by their presence'. You shouldn't be able to have more than 3-4 at any time, they shouldn't be transferrable, and the hero should only be able to ask for their 'blessings and aid' in battle for several thousands / or concentrating (taking the hero out of combat).. So what I'd really like to have is not actually a unit that you can carry in your army for that would really imbalance the neutral encounters, but something more like a uber-summon that can't be called out every single day or maybe even every week without really hurting your economy.

I don't really think something like this this can be added in a patch, not even in an expansion perhaps, but you never know...

[DaemianLucifer]

It is ok to have the tiers balanced so that its not a race to the level 7s.But that one has been done by making level 7s very,very hard to reach,and buffing lower levels.Nerfing level 7s was unnecessary.

As for level 8,Id like it to be a grail unit,not a regular one.

[Orfinn]

http://elrath.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138


BAM! Some awesome heroes fan has beefed up the level 7 units!

Each now has the ability to cast mass spells or use more skills. Their hp is increased, so is the exp from them, and the COST is increased too (ok with me).

If you're looking for variety, try this on for size...I haven't tested but I'm going to do it now!




Academy - Titans: Chain Lightning - due to titans are the masters of lightning, its stupid when they dont have the spell.

Dungeon - Black Dragons: Mass Haste and Mass Slow - due to high spd atk back ground and dark magic background.

Haven - ArchAngels: 2 times to resurect allies and Mass Endurance - due to human spec of high def.

Inferno - ArchDevils: 2 times to summon pit lords (max summon for each devils is still 2 pit lords) and Mass Might - due to demon legend of crushing enemies with might.

Necropolis - Spectral Dragons: Adnimate Dead and Mass Decay - due to the souls of those dragons are from the sacrify of various necromancers hence they hold the necro power of animating the deaths plus the undead spec of decaying creatures.

Sylvan - Emerald Dragons: Summon Elementals and Mass Deflect Arrows - due to background of elements mastery of the wood elves and as the legend said, they have the finest archers thus they know how to minimize the arrows damages.

==========================================
Status added
==========================================
HP: + 1/3
Mana: use wisely, it has like 2 ways to be used up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) .
XP: x 3.5
Cost: + 1/3
All spells are casted under advance mastery.
New descriptions added.

Whappa! Right, I gonna test it out as well.

BTW have you tried the new dragon mod? It looks really nice.

(the english versions are some replys down on the page)

http://elrath.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151

Drowning in mods....Haven units are ready for a party

http://elrath.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=126

I just say H5 is a heaven for modders, a great aspect of H5 to say at least

[LordErtz]

See, that's how I look at it...eventually there will be so many mods, you can create a game that is to everyone's liking haha. Balanced? Who cares! It wasn't balanced in the first place At least enjoy the game!

[Orfinn]

Yeah

[Caradoc]

Level 8? To satisfy all us "Spinal Tap" fans, you'd need Level 11.