New H5 RPG/Quest map - Mercenaries - Playtesters needed!

[Franzy]

How are you going to run around with 3-shot harpuneers until you found the quiver? No... Unless give the player the tent and the cart via mini-quests? Hmm....

[Mystic Phoenix]

How are you going to run around with 3-shot harpuneers until you found the quiver? No... Unless give the player the tent and the cart via mini-quests? Hmm....

4 shots.. but you are right, not too many. However, arcane archers can shoot 16 times and you get access to them early, THEY don't need an ammo cart at all.

Mini quest were nice too, however. Something archer related for the ammo cart, and something related to the light priests for the tent. No precise idea at the moment, but I'll think about it.

But i like the idea with the movement reducing ballista, too. In that case I don't think I would level up war machines... since there are no other heroes, you cannot transfer it and destroying it with own destructive magic would be too much of an effort unless you get circle of winter and cold death.

[wimfrits]

In that case I don't think I would level up war machines...

That is what I wanted to say. I don't like the idea of a movement reduction at all in the current setup. The effect would be the same as disabling the skill; the skill becomes a waste of skilllpoints.
In the current setup; skill choice is already very limited, with Brand having:

Destructive magic - [fixed]
Logistics - must have when map movement is above a certain threshold
Enlightment - must have with high level hero development. Also a must have when hero has DM.
Sorcery - must have when hero has DM

That leaves 2 free skillslots with only 4 skills to choose from: Luck, Leadership, Defense and Attack.

So IF the war machine skill is "disabled" instead of treating the ballista crew like mercenaries, there should be a way of getting rid of the DM skill in early game. Else the map's replay value will be sorely diminished.

[Mystic Phoenix]

In the current setup; skill choice is already very limited, with Brand having:

Destructive magic - [fixed]
Logistics - must have when map movement is above a certain threshold
Enlightment - must have with high level hero development. Also a must have when hero has DM.
Sorcery - must have when hero has DM

That leaves 2 free skillslots with only 4 skills to choose from: Luck, Leadership, Defense and Attack.

That's quite interesting, since I skilled in a different way (but maybe I'm a bad player after all... ) BTW you forgot the racial skill, so that leaves only one slot.

Log is of course a no brainer and DM is fixed. However, I never chose Enlightenment and Sorcery. I always tried to get Defense and Summoning Magic to get the Ultimate (which I could achieve last time). I used the last slot either for Dark or Light Magic (lots of dark and light shrines on the map), although Luck, Leadership and Attack are useful skills, too.
So, I think getting rid of the war machine skill still leaves a lot of combinations for Brand. Still 56 possibilities when to choose from 8 skills instead of 84 when you have 9 skills to choose from.

Edit: A word to replayability: Even I you had to choose exactly the same skills, there are different ways to play the map: being a good guy, being the evil one or play it for speed trying to solve no quests at all except the main quests. When a map favors replayability, it is this one.

[Franzy]

I myself chose luck-logisics-offence-light/dark magic You see, everyone has his or her own set of favorite skills.

However, I'm still weighing pros and cons... Huge downside of movement reduction variant is that you can not easily get rid of ballista. Once you buy it, it's like a curse

Maybe I'll go with the fees after all. Who can afford to pay like 5000 in the early game? And later the ballista is not that powerful.

Still, there is the same downside. How do you get rid of ballista you can no longer afford?

Wow! I just got another idea. It's possible to count the number of shots the ballista made. What if after battle you have to pay for each shot? Ammunition is pricy )
No, that's silly. I need to sleep

Oh my, balancing will be a lot easier on my next map. After playing the new King's Bounty I got an idea how to safely control player's army size )

[Mystic Phoenix]

Is it possible to reduce ballista shots to a certain amount?

[Franzy]

Unfortunately, no. I thought about it too.

[wimfrits]

BTW you forgot the racial skill, so that leaves only one slot.

Argh.. you're right. I thought I had the magic insight skill, but I'm probably mixing maps up..

Enlightment is a no brainer if hero can reach a high level because of the huge stat increase. Aside from that, DM is the most spellpower dependent magic skill of all and benefits even more from the stat increase.

Sorcery affects every DM casting (and every SM casting) and therefore works best with those magics. I evidently skipped Sorcery in this map in favor of Attack and Flaming arrows.

A second magic skill can be tricky in a small MP map where your hero will not fill up his skills.
In a large SP map like this where all skills are filled, it basically means that you're using 2 skills only half of the time. Which I consider a waste of valuable space since you can have double effectiveness if you take a non-magic skill instead that is effective 100% of the time.
Especially on impossible level, you should maximize your hero's effectiveness.
That's indeed a personal preference; but I'm pretty sure that most players that want or need to play efficiently will agree with me.

As for getting the ultimate; I can't say anything about that. Playing on impossible means that taking significant casualties equals losing the game. The odds you're up against prevent use of normal attack/retalitation tactics. So damage reducing skills such as the dwarven ultimate or defense are in this case useless as you should not take significant damage anyway.

Edit: A word to replayability: Even I you had to choose exactly the same skills, there are different ways to play the map

True for some. Not for me. Hero development for me is the single most fun aspect of any map. But each to his own.

I really think that a 1-time option to lose DM early game (after capturing the fortress for instance) would greatly increase variety in play. Speaking for myself; I wouldn't replay the map simply because I've already experienced a DM Brand.

Maybe I'll go with the fees after all. Who can afford to pay like 5000 in the early game? And later the ballista is not that powerful.

So it's not possible to count hero skills like I suggested earlier?

[Franzy]

So it's not possible to count hero skills like I suggested earlier?

Possible. I just wanted to say that it will not be wise to get expert early

However, I'm more and more inclined to another solution. No fees, no movement-reduction (don't want to make the ballista a curse you can't get rid off). However, there will be a chance that the ballista will break after a battle. And that chance will increase with every battle, like 3% per battle. So, 0% after 1st battle after purchase, and 27% after 10th battle. plus the chance will (maybe) slightly increase daily. This way the player who relies heavily on ballista will have to return to the City once in a while to get new ballista, thus losing time and making an effective alternative to movement reduction.

What do you think?

P.S. Wimfrits, I'm thinking about placing 1-time mentor somewhere near the city. Maybe the fortune teller will offer Brand to erase his memory (lose all levels)...

[wimfrits]

What do you think?

That would be a good solution I think. In effect a movement penalty but not a too drastic one.
But are you sure you'd rather implement a new system than let the ballista hook up with the mercenary system?

P.S. Wimfrits, I'm thinking about placing 1-time mentor somewhere near the city. Maybe the fortune teller will offer Brand to erase his memory (lose all levels)...

Sounds good! If that would be the case; I would surely replay the map

[Franzy]

But are you sure you'd rather implement a new system than let the ballista hook up with the mercenary system?

Imagine a situation. You buy a ballista and become an expert in just a month (easily). You income is like 1000 Gold per day at that moment. And ballista will take 5000!

And, unlike regular mecenary, you can not fire ballista! It's like a curse!

And second, implementing "new system" will require very little effort, like 10 lines of code.

[Mystic Phoenix]

Seems to be a good solution for me, too.

[wimfrits]

Imagine a situation. You buy a ballista and become an expert in just a month (easily). You income is like 1000 Gold per day at that moment. And ballista will take 5000!

And, unlike regular mecenary, you can not fire ballista! It's like a curse!

If the player is aware (text at war machine factory / text in mercenary fees txt file) of how the ballista's daily fee is dependent on his skills, he will think twice before choosing and leveling up his war machine skills.

So I don't think that would be a problem.

Benefit of such a system is that the player still is free to choose whatever he wants and is fully aware of the consequences.

Second, a secondary system next to the mercenary system *may* 'distract' too much from the map's core concept. If players take the war machine path and start thinking about how to plot movement between quests so that they come past the war machine factory often but still have an efficient path; or even save before battles and load when their ballista is destroyed, then (exaggerating) players are no longer playing the map Mercenaries but playing the map Cranky Ballista if you know what I mean.

[Franzy]

Well, I made up my mind. Now war machines (all of them) will require daily fee as usual mercenaries. The fee will depend on difficulty and skill mastery. When visiting the fortress hero will be asked if he is willing to leave a war machine in the fortress. If he has one left, he will be asked if he is willing to take it away. No movement reduction cost will be implemented, cause it will make war machines totally useless.

Other new features:
- In the beginning of the game player will be asked if he want to start with default set of starting skills or wants a "clean" character with no skills (but ready to level up 2 times).
- In the end player will be told his score (for tournaments). The score will be calculated depending on difficulty, hero level, hero renown, completed and failed quests, time passed, etc.

[Mystic Phoenix]

Great. That solves a lot of questions, because I want to suggest it as a tournament map for the German community and was thinking how to implement a score which is not only based on required days.

I hope, the fee for war machines isn't too cheap, but I trust in you on this point.
German translation is going on, hope I will be finished with that work end of next week.

[wimfrits]

Sounds very good!

[Franzy]

Well, I think about the following fees for easy/normal:
Ballista Tent Cart
No skill: 250 50 100
Each level of WM: +250 +50 +50
Runic Machines: +500 +100 +0
Ballista skill: +750 +0 +0
First aid skill: +0 +150 +0
Fire arrows: +750 +0 +0

So, with all skills on normal ballista will cost 3000 gold per day.
On hard and heroic difficulties all prices are doubled (so, 6000 Gold per day). Price for the cart also rises 'cause it adds to shooters' damage.

[wimfrits]

Ballista fee seems fair enough.
Cart fees also.

Not sure about the tent fees per WM skill level. Could be a bit lower I guess. WM skill has limited effect on first aid effectiveness as player has limited access to high hp units. Something like +25 for each level.

[Franzy]

But it can ressurect, remember? (if you have first aid skill). But maybe you're right... I will increase pay for first aid skill, but decrease for WM skill...

[wimfrits]

Yes! That's a good idea.