so who is still making XL maps?

[myythryyn]

so in the most recent news item here on celestial heavens main page, here is quote from angelspit -

"Extra-large maps were the trend shortly after the map editor came out, but recently the new maps have been much smaller. "

so, who still out there is still making XL maps? is it true and map makers are starting to make smaller maps?
is it because map makers are fed up with map editor and are giving up on XL maps? if so, what are you reasons?

for myself, im very dissapointed in the map editor and i may make one more XL map, but im not sure. I recently made a map called playground of the gods, and i intended it be the biggest map ever made.
and i instead learnt a lesson that the HOMMV game engine cant handle a map of that size. the map i made ended up having slow performance and lag when players did their turns, and the map crashed sometimes.
so now, i dont know if i want to risk making another XL map again.
just how many objects is too many before the game performance is affected? i dont want to spend the time making an XL map again only to end up making a map the game engine cant handle.
and ive also read that anyone with an older computer cant even play XL maps.

the other reason i am fed up is the laggy map editor. Ive given up on Nival ever improving the map editor performance. in the last patch, they instead removed a whole list of objects, placed a dumb armored tank object, put a useless P2P button, and some ambient light settings i doubt ill ever use and added some not needed campaign hero objects in the map filter. and they considered that "improvements".
it completely aggravates me that something so simple as putting an "animations off/on" button that would make map making so much more better for us map makers hanst been made by nival. and like i said, ive given up on it happening.

so for now, i have to agree with angelspits comment, the latest map im making is not XL. there is just too much lag making XL maps, and it just takes too much patience waiting for things like waiting two minutes to just load your map.
so i have to wonder if there is going to be alot less XL maps.
what do you guys think? are you still making XL maps?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I anticipate only making XL maps.

Using a lot of terrain morphing can cut down on the number of objects you need to beautify a map and to create barriers. That helps keep the lag down.

I just got the expansion a day ago so I'm playing through that before I start on another map.

GOW

[alavris]

Probably I will never make any XL map. Two reasons:

- I don't like playing such big maps, so I will not make a map which I would not play with full enjoyment
- When I try to load XL map... my game crashes

Another reason may be that size of the map I've been making for 2 month is TINY (72x72). So I don't know how much time it would take me to make a BIG map
.

[rpr692000]

I got expansion and TRIED to make an XL map.

It crashed!! My machine lags out on just large maps for me.

And I thought I had a good system X2-4200+ with 2gb of RAM.
(Ubival only likes intel?)

so no XL creations here.

[Angelspit]

I don't particularly like XL maps for two reasons:

1) as a player they require a lot of time to complete;
2) as a publisher, it takes a lot of patience to take a screeshot suitable for a minimap on an older computer.

But, by all means, don't let my comments interfere with your creativity.

[myythryyn]

I anticipate only making XL maps.

Using a lot of terrain morphing can cut down on the number of objects you need to beautify a map and to create barriers. That helps keep the lag down.
GOW

yes, used to be the same way, for HOMM III, i only played XL maps, there were a whole bunch of smaller maps i never played.
and i expected to be the same for HOMMV. i only wanted to make XL maps.
but the editor is just to hard to work with on XL.
ill have to try your idea next time GOW and use alot of terrain instead of objects. but even terrain might involve trees and mountains, which are technically objects.
i dunno, im sure ill have to make one again, cuz i like XL maps the best, maybe im just frustrated right now from my last experience making an XL map, and Nivals lack of effort in improving the editor's performance.

but well have to see if less XL maps are made. if people do start making less and less XL maps, i completely understand why.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I anticipate only making XL maps.

Using a lot of terrain morphing can cut down on the number of objects you need to beautify a map and to create barriers. That helps keep the lag down.
GOW

ill have to try your idea next time GOW and use alot of terrain instead of objects. but even terrain might involve trees and mountains, which are technically objects.

By terrain morphing I mean raising and lowering terrain to make mountains and canyons, ect. You can use masking to make them impassable.

I did this in my map "Seize The Throne" to help keep the object count down and I think it worked out pretty well. Open it up and have a look at the homebrewed mountains and such to see what I mean.

In addition, try not to lay down huge thick forests. I think the animation from trees is the main problem with that some folks have on XL maps.

GOW

[Mace the Councillor]

I am not going to make a XL. I agree with several comments here. They take too long to complete. I didn't like them much even in earlier games in the series, when they didn't lag my computer.

The only use I can see for them I when you want truly epic games and a feeling of huge amounts of space, such as on sea maps.

Large maps are my favorite size. Always have been. Just right. Not claustrophobic, but not so large that they take forever to complete either.

[DeejMaster]

I have always made XL maps because a little bit of everything can be thrown in, however; I don't see me making any maps that require scripting knowledge. Not only does it does take me forever to create a Map, but I can't image how long it would take if I had to script everything.

[myythryyn]

yes, scripting can take along time. i dont think id ever want to script an entire XL map, it takes long enough just to lay the terrain down.
im making a scripted Large map, and the script part is taking three times longer than making the terrain. ive been stuck troubleshooting the script for weeks now.

on the Large map ive been making, im happy with the performance of the editor. it has none of the lag and other long waittimes for things like making an XL map.
and i think most people will be able to play the map without problems. it runs smoothly on my average system. AI turns do not take minutes, map saves and loads quickly.
which i like better since i want to make maps the majority of players can play, not just people with 2gb of ram.

so i think for now ill be sticking with Large maps instead of XL.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I have reconsidered my previous statement that I will only make XL maps. I think that until Nival finds a way to improve performance I'll drop down to large maps since so many people have trouble with XL maps.

GOW

[okrane]

Honestly I prefer medium and large maps to XL ones.

In singleplayer, after a certain time things will just get repetitive and boring... I mean... if you get stronger than all other oponents it will still take you a lot of time to eliminate them all... this is wasted time imo...

In multiplayer an XL map is the most effective time killing machine after world of warcraft... I mean... a game that will last 12hours + is not something I have the time to do...

[finkellll]

im working on an xl right now, but i actually think a large is plenty big enough after this expierience

[Caradoc]

When I get my new PC, I'll be able to make (and play) large maps. With my current machine even 'very big' maps have too much lag to work with.

I really love the 'very big' and 'too big' maps, provided that they are well laid out and are more than player-in-each-corner-meet-in-the-middle. I like maps that are asymmetric but nonlinear. Multiple starting positions are good, but on a larger map there has to be more than fighting players from the other positions.

I have a couple of projects in mind. I've worked out a sequence of maps for 'Journey to the Center of the Earth' where each map takes the player deeper and deeper before the final escape. On entering a new level there will be no turning back and the player will have to find the way 'down' to the next.

But that's going to take some time, so I'm planning to start with a warm-up to get more familiar with the editor and scripting language. This will be an XL map in the style of M&M, where the players must find and visit several dungeons. The surface world will be fairly benign with only some scattered quests to complete, but the underworld will be much tougher. I plan for players to have to visit each dungeon multiple times to finish it.

[Vlaad II]

Any updates after TotE...?

[RobB]

What I really hate is small maps. I quite like medium, but when creating my own maps, I usually find them too cramped: I really don't want to place towns so that you can see one from just outside another.

I found playing Bytebandit's recent XL maps a lot of fun, but on the whole, I wouldn't want to play (let alone make) too many maps that big. I prefer campaigns so that you get the length of play, but a change of scenery.

[BAD23ro]

I got expansion and TRIED to make an XL map.

It crashed!! My machine lags out on just large maps for me.

And I thought I had a good system X2-4200+ with 2gb of RAM.
(Ubival only likes intel?)

so no XL creations here.

Even on Quad processors there is lag, game isn't optimized at all.

[Merx]

Another problem when playing XL maps in HOMM V is that it takes too long for a hero to walk across it.
I remember in HOMM III and II with expert town portal or dimension door you could go from one corner of the map to another instantly.
The new Town Portal spell and the new Dimension Door are only usefull in small maps where there's 1 castle for each player and where probably your hero won't even get to level 20.
Also it takes weeks to go from one place to another in a HOMM V XL map and that means your enemy will have more units than you when you arrive to his castle (Probably two or three weeks production).
That makes standing and wait the most reliable strategy in most XL maps (at least when you are playing against human players) and that is undesirable...

[Vlaad II]

Dimension Door and Town Portal were game breakers in Heroes 3. Besides, there's Summon Creature, right...?

Back on topic, I must admit the performance of the editor has improved with Tribes (or perhaps it's my new computer ).

[King Imp]

I'm currently in the process of making an Impossible map in TotE. I just hope when it's all done, the size isn't so great that it won't play properly.