Question about some hidden objects

[Siegfried]

Hi,

within the hidden objects there are some items, i think they are called "victory flags". They look like artifacts. The question now is: Can they be used like artifacts? Can a hero pick them up? Can i give them to a hero by script? Can i take them from a hero by script? Is it possible to check if a hero has one of them? If yes, how?

The question is not if these "artifacts" are doing something, it's just i'd like to check if the hero carries them.

[Pol]

I never tried but I'm afraid that is not possible. Victory flag looks to me like standard terrain objects. They are not banners or native standarts to be beared I think.

Sure more will be knowing people working with h4 daily

[Siegfried]

Thanks so far. As far as i do recall there is no option in scripts to do anything with that. But there is, i think, an option to check f.ex. for the Gryphonhearts sword, which is iamong these hidden objects, too, so may be some way...

If not, it would be nice if Equilibris mods them to be pickable Artifacts, even when doing nothing special. I'd like them to flag some events the hero had passed in a way so that they carry over to a next scenario in a campaign like boolean variables. The method with the dummy hero to be sacrificed on day 1 is at least strange.

[Siegfried]

O.k., i just made a test. The object is not pickable. Hovering with the cursor shows the interactivity curser, but no interactivity is possible. Right-clicking on it gives a help message saying something like "This flag raises your morale as long at it is standing".

Now there are as many flags as players, each one coloured in one of the player colours. So i think it was meant that a standing flag raises the morale for the player of the same colour.

In fact the flag does not do this (@Equilibris team: Could be interesting to implement exactly that). The flag cannot be interacted with whatsoever. Enemy flags f.ex. can not be removed ("attacked"), so this makes it currently really a pure decorative object.

REM: Could anyone move this thread to the Equilibris forum?

Now suggestions for Equilibris: These flags should indeed raise the morale by 1 for all players of that colour, as long as it is standing on the adventure map. It should be pickable regardless of colour, and if a hero wins a battle and has a flag of his own colour equipped then this flag should be placed, preferably at the location where the beaten hero was, or in case of siege near the town. This would enable the mapmaker to place some of them near the home towns of the players, and let the players go for opponents flags to lower their morale.

[Robenhagen]

As for the hidden objects - you can download this map, which has most of the hidden objects in H4 - you can also find a load of underground walls.

[Vlaad II]

Siegfried:

You could use scripts though. Put a placed event next to a flag and script whatever you want: display a message, give a morale or movement bonus, or do something more complicated - set a variable etc. In addition, you could scatter several different flags across your map and adjust one script to different colors...

[Siegfried]

@Robenhagen: Thanks, I'll try.

@Vlaad: That is not a real alternative. O.k., you could possibly remove those flags by script, placing a bomb on it. That removing could be scripted. But it seems not to be possible to check per script if there is any of those flags on the map. At least i don't know how to reference them.

I'm still not really sure if they do anything or not. I tried it with the campaign i'm currently working on (http://www.rorkvell.de/Zombies_Revenge.h4c). I had a necromancer who then hat +1 morale. In the first fight with the opponent beeing a death knight this one had a morale of -1. I don't know why. Although i think on undead morale has no effect. Just wanted to see if these flags do have any effect, since they got a help text saying so.

[Vlaad II]

@Vlaad: That is not a real alternative. O.k., you could possibly remove those flags by script, placing a bomb on it. That removing could be scripted. But it seems not to be possible to check per script if there is any of those flags on the map. At least i don't know how to reference them.

Well, I don't know what exactly you wanted, but... You could set variables when flags are "visited" (i.e. when the scripts are triggered).

[Siegfried]

Ah, i see. Like this the flag would just be a visible marker for the invisible event. Hmmm, not ideal, but in some cases may be useful.

BTW, i just tested all those objects. Some of them do indeed have a function. The tome is converted randomly to some tome of whatever, the staff is converted to some staff. The two treasure heaps are nice: When you right-click on them it says there is a treasure. When you visit them they vanish saying it was just an illusion. Could come in extremely handy as trap for all-to-greedy players placing a large stack of bandits behind it

The false and true gryffonheart swords have some function as artifacts, although the description of the true blade says that only a gryffonheart could use them in battle. How is that determined? Who is a real gryffonheart?

[Kareeah Indaga]

IIRC that’s just flavor text for the campaign “The True Blade”. Anyone can use it.

[Siegfried]

Good to know

[Robenhagen]

Ah, i see. Like this the flag would just be a visible marker for the invisible event. Hmmm, not ideal, but in some cases may be useful.

If you use individual variables for every flag you've placed on your map, you can have total control over what happens when a player 'picks up' a flag.

BTW, i just tested all those objects. Some of them do indeed have a function. The tome is converted randomly to some tome of whatever, the staff is converted to some staff. The two treasure heaps are nice: When you right-click on them it says there is a treasure. When you visit them they vanish saying it was just an illusion. Could come in extremely handy as trap for all-to-greedy players placing a large stack of bandits behind it

You can also create the treasure heaps another way, to make them contain artifact treasures if you desire: Place a stack of peasants and use the properties to give the stack the artifacts you want the treasure heap to contain. Next make either a timed event on the peasant stack or a triggerable event (that you trigger through a 'normal' timed event. The event should only contain the Combat script - let the stack fight 500 black dragons to have the stack eliminated. The stack is then removed and the treasure heap is left behind.

[Siegfried]

If you use individual variables for every flag you've placed on your map, you can have total control over what happens when a player 'picks up' a flag.

Exactly that is not possible. These flags can't be picked up. You could blow them by script, but still then they would not appear in the heroes backpack.

You can also create the treasure heaps another way, to make them contain artifact treasures if you desire: Place a stack of peasants and use the properties to give the stack the artifacts you want the treasure heap to contain. Next make either a timed event on the peasant stack or a triggerable event (that you trigger through a 'normal' timed event. The event should only contain the Combat script - let the stack fight 500 black dragons to have the stack eliminated. The stack is then removed and the treasure heap is left behind.

Good idea. Just a single peasant and a single venom spawn should be enough. I've never tried that. So these heaps look exactly like those from the hidden objects? Nice! Then the "fake" heaps could not be distinguished from heaps actually containing something. That makes traps for greedy players even more useful

[Robenhagen]

Exactly that is not possible. These flags can't be picked up. You could blow them by script, but still then they would not appear in the heroes backpack.

No, you can't pick them up, but if you want to use them as luck or morale modifiers you can script that. You can also increase a hero's attributes or whatever you like.

Good idea. Just a single peasant and a single venom spawn should be enough. I've never tried that. So these heaps look exactly like those from the hidden objects? Nice! Then the "fake" heaps could not be distinguished from heaps actually containing something. That makes traps for greedy players even more useful

Glad you liked the idea. The reason they look alike is because it's the same object, the game uses these objects, but they just weren't showing in the editor.

[Siegfried]

No, you can't pick them up, but if you want to use them as luck or morale modifiers you can script that. You can also increase a hero's attributes or whatever you like.

Yes, i know. But that is not very useful. Using these flags as morale boosters (as stated in the help text of those flags) would be useful if they could be removed or destroyed. Just to giva a player a simple static morale boost throughout the game is boring and the flag is not needed for that. It only becomes interesting if they could be removed.

Glad you liked the idea. The reason they look alike is because it's the same object, the game uses these objects, but they just weren't showing in the editor.

I thought so. And probably they did not think of a "fake" object beeing of any use. But i think from time to time this idea might come in handy and may be quite funny.

[Robenhagen]

It only becomes interesting if they could be removed.

Bomb? But I suppose you want a way to bring it with you in your hero's inventory?

[Siegfried]

Exactly. Could be extremely useful in campaigns where the caryyover hero gets rewarded with such a flag for passing optional sidequests and carry those flags to the next scenario. So in the next scenario you would have a chance to check which of the optional sidequests the hero passed in the previous scenario.

O.k., i found the files in the data file. They are indeed under "Artifacts". So they where initially meant as artifacts. I also managed to extract it. But it is a binary file. Is there any tool to edit these?

[Robenhagen]

Exactly. Could be extremely useful in campaigns where the caryyover hero gets rewarded with such a flag for passing optional sidequests and carry those flags to the next scenario. So in the next scenario you would have a chance to check which of the optional sidequests the hero passed in the previous scenario.

You should check out Rife's 'Carryover Variables and Bank on this page, that can help you keep track of which quest has been completed in previous scenarios. Basically you use a neutral hero, and when a specific quest (quest1) is completed you give him a specific skill (not all skills are equally good for this). Put a Carryover Hero placeholder somewhere out of sight on the next scenario and carry over the neutral hero. Now check his skills through scripting - if 'x_skill'='y' then set 'quest1_variable' to TRUE. Now you can use the 'quest1_variable' at any time to check if a specific quest was completed in a previous scenario. For mulitple quests, use multiple neutral carryover heroes.


No clue about the binary file - sorry.

[Pol]

I see your line, but still I'm afraid that here is no object editor to revert the flags back to usual artifact state in the map. At least no officialy. Equilibris team can be reasonably suspected from having such tool ... or knowing if that is possible and how (direct hex edit)

[Siegfried]

@Robenhagen: I know. The method is at least strange, although it probably works.

@Pol: At least they should know how to do this, since they did it in Equilibris If they managed to create completely new objects then it should be fairly easy to modify an existing object. These flags where originally meant to do something, but either they where forgotten then, or they had no clue how to implement it exactly. The description sais that these flags increase morale by 1 as long as they are standing. So in other words, as long as the hero does not carry them. This is extremely different to all other artifacts. But it would indeed add a nice new facet to the gameplay: Chasing those flags. If they where referencable in scripts you could even include them in victory conditions (Victory condition: Capture the blue flag). You would have to search for it on the ap, or, if you can't find it, search for the hero who carries it and beat him.

Carrying over those artifacts would then add a useful additional information.