H3: Are certain heroes too good?

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Nucleon
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Unread postby Nucleon » 27 Jan 2006, 02:07

csarmi wrote: but you don't expect me to reply to this post, do you?
you are either serious (that would imply your hopeless) or playing fun on us (that would mean no good in replying)
To be frank, no, I don't expect you to e-mail me anything.

You seem like a person prone to exaggeration; There are no "thousand ways" to get rid of a Ballista once you have it, there is one; give it to another hero.

Yes it can be destroyed in combat, but to go in combat in the hopes of having one's ballista destroyed is a desperate measure.

And because you seem prone to exaggeration, Nucleon highly doubt that you can stand up to what you affirm about finishing most of your map in a month's time.

No offenses.

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Unread postby Derek » 27 Jan 2006, 03:06

What has happened to this topic?! Nucleon, how can you seriously claim that it is hard to destroy a ballista. The thing has 250 health for crying out loud! Can you kill 6 Greater Basilisks? If you answered yes then you can beat a ballista. I mean really...this doesn't even warrant discussing any further.

On an actual discussion note, are heroes with specialties such as haste/bloodlust too good? What is the maximum benefit that can be derived from them?
Hell has frozen over...

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Unread postby Nucleon » 27 Jan 2006, 04:50

Derek wrote:What has happened to this topic?! Nucleon, how can you seriously claim that it is hard to destroy a ballista. The thing has 250 health for crying out loud! Can you kill 6 Greater Basilisks? If you answered yes then you can beat a ballista.
It is the about the fifth ricochet twice removed from a secondary aspect of a subject remotely associated with the thread.

It isn't about destroying a ballista, it's about destroying yours.
I mean really...this doesn't even warrant discussing any further.
So much, in fact, that Nucleon wonders why you've brought it up yourself.
On an actual discussion note, are heroes with specialties such as haste/bloodlust too good? What is the maximum benefit that can be derived from them?
Good. Nucleon know little about the mechanics of a specialist spell, apart that it works better on lower level troops. The obvious advantage He sees with spell specialist is that they provide the said spell.

Do you know the mechanics yourself?

Nucleon figures these heroes are okay, in a non-disruptive way.

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Unread postby Banedon » 27 Jan 2006, 05:13

In the early stages? Maybe, maybe not.
I challenge you to name a situation where "maybe not" is the more likely proposition. Earlier, castle defenses are far more vicious, inflicting serious casualties.
Once again, that's simplistc. If you pretend to slay 50 elves, you've got a more than respectable force, maybe more needed than these Elves you just slew.
Of course I have a "respectable force". Do you think I'd build a Castle if I know I cannot defend it? If you only have 50 Grand Elves, guess how many Pikemen I need to defend the castle.
You say ressources are scarce yet in your exemple you do not hesistate to postpone the building of your Capital to favor Efreet Sultan production. Nucleon thinks that an advanced skill and an extra point of attribute on your main hero can help a lot in the early stages. As a rule of thumb, if said chest contains 500 xp, Nucleon takes the cash, and if its 1500 xp, He take the experience. The rest depends.
Postponing the Capitol is a calculated risk. Think it this way. I spend a lot of my starting resources to power build Efreet Sultans, who allow me the driving power in the middle-game. This initiative can well translate into even more resources - I may capture a town, a Gold Mine, or whatnot. It is quite possible that (paradoxically) by building the Efreet Sultans first, I reach the Capitol before you do.

Regardless of whether the chest gives 1500 experience or 500, I always pick Gold on Expert difficulty - the money is too important. After all, my level 1 hero with 6 Efreet Sultans is far stronger than your level 10 hero with 50 Skeleton Warriors (say).
Nucleon doubts that.
I challenge that. I may have 30 Archangels against your 32 Black Dragons, but thanks to my higher stats (courtesy of my power expansion - if you took Experience from treasure chests you may have equal stats, but chances then are you will only have 30 Black Dragons), my better artifacts (again, my faster expanding) and more spells (having more castles = more spells), I believe I can extract a victory.
Maybe. Once again, it depends. Pyre may also cast a nasty like "Resurrection", or "Earthquake". Arrow towers do between 22-33 damage (with attack 10), doubled for the main one, so Nucleon highly doubt that you can take 2 Efreets with the first volley, even if maximum damage is attained.
I thank Nucleon for casting Earthquake, since that means the battle ends on turn 2. Resurrection too is not to be feared, since it will cost heavy mana and you'd still take many turns to win (3+). Besides, the chances of Pyre learning Resurrection is rather low, especially since she's a courrier hero.

Based on experience the towers can destroy both Efreet Sultan stacks in a volley (the main stack does approximately 90; the other two 45 each). I have no numbers to calculate, and I don't have the will to test right now. If anyone else knows, please post?
Nucleon will however concede that it will not be an easy task. Only a skilled, lvl 10+ hero could do that if he is equipped. Here.
I wonder how on EARTH a level 10+ hero became a courrier. That is so improbable it is impossible; the experience can and should be channeled to the main hero.
Banedon, that horse is dead. Stop beating on the poor thing. If it bugs you that much, well, suppose Solmyr just produced instead 1 Titan, 2 Naga Queens and 4 Archmages, while Cyra has 6 Naga Queens.
THAT battle results in a wipeout, and I don't mind performing it. Shall we? I can use my original hero Solmyr, and I will bring the Ballista.

Otherwise, Banedon will supply what Nucleon failed to do.

Using a single stack is not a counter to Solmyr. It is, in fact, suicide.
To be frank, no, I don't expect you to e-mail me anything.
I will not e-mail you anything, but I will provide you the maps.

Consider the map GOOD TO GO. This map can and should be finished by at most week 3. Maybe the game won't be concluded, but one side will have established so powerful an advantage finishing the game is pointless.

Next consider the map CRIMSON AND CLOVER. The same applies to this map. By the end of month 1, the game will be predictable enough to stop then.

Next up there is the map WARLORDS. This is a large map, mind you, but by month 1 (or at most month 2 week 1) a confrontation will occur that ends the game.
Yes it can be destroyed in combat, but to go in combat in the hopes of having one's ballista destroyed is a desperate measure.
Really? I don't think so - it can be killed by neutrals. Try it yourself. I have a stack of Archangels and the Ballista I want destroyed. I attack neutral Crusaders. I cast Slow on the Crusaders. The Crusaders approach my Archangels. I wait. I wait some more. When the Crusaders are near enough, I fly my Archangels over to the other side. Too far from my Archangels, the Crusaders will naturally attack the Ballista, destroying it.

Another way is to get the Crusaders there - and then cast Meteor Shower. This AoE spell hurts your own troops, so the same occurs; the Ballista is destroyed.

But I honestly feel you are picking on a slight mistake I made. Change my army to one which will not use a Ballista. What are you going to do now?

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Unread postby Nucleon » 27 Jan 2006, 13:20

Banedon wrote: I challenge you to name a situation where "maybe not" is the more likely proposition. Earlier, castle defenses are far more vicious, inflicting serious casualties.
Okay, you win; a castle with seven pikemen is an impregnable thing.
Postponing the Capitol is a calculated risk. Think it this way. I spend a lot of my starting resources to power build Efreet Sultans, who allow me the driving power in the middle-game. This initiative can well translate into even more resources - I may capture a town, a Gold Mine, or whatnot. It is quite possible that (paradoxically) by building the Efreet Sultans first, I reach the Capitol before you do.

Regardless of whether the chest gives 1500 experience or 500, I always pick Gold on Expert difficulty - the money is too important. After all, my level 1 hero with 6 Efreet Sultans is far stronger than your level 10 hero with 50 Skeleton Warriors (say).
Once again, you assume many things. In the end, that's a risky strategy. Surely, the Stronghold should developp the Roc as soon as it can, but Inferno is not doing so bad with Hell Hounds at the start of a game. Unless the map screams for it, an Inferno played by Nucleon should have its Efreet Sultan one week after you do, along with many other forces and stronger heroes.

(As a sidenote; Nucleon favors Pit Lords development over Efreet Sultans, because Pit Lords plus Imps equals more Demons, the backbone of the Inferno.)
I challenge that. I may have 30 Archangels against your 32 Black Dragons, but thanks to my higher stats (courtesy of my power expansion - if you took Experience from treasure chests you may have equal stats, but chances then are you will only have 30 Black Dragons), my better artifacts (again, my faster expanding) and more spells (having more castles = more spells), I believe I can extract a victory.
You do not hesitate to advance that a faster scouting re-inforce your army, yet all you see in my decision to make my courrier effective is that it lacks 2 Efreet Sultans, causing Nucleon's assured defeat. Come on.
I thank Nucleon for casting Earthquake, since that means the battle ends on turn 2. Resurrection too is not to be feared, since it will cost heavy mana and you'd still take many turns to win (3+). Besides, the chances of Pyre learning Resurrection is rather low, especially since she's a courrier hero.
"Earthquake" is a risky thing, because the game might well decide that all walls are down before a single arrow tower is eliminated but "Ressurection" will assure victory with no loss, no matter how long it will take.

And nucleon usually equips his courrier with Earth Magic, Air Magic and Wisdom in the hopes that He will get one of the transport spells like "Town Portal", "Fly" or "Dimension Door".
Based on experience the towers can destroy both Efreet Sultan stacks in a volley (the main stack does approximately 90; the other two 45 each). I have no numbers to calculate, and I don't have the will to test right now. If anyone else knows, please post?
Sure, here it is; Arrow towers do 22-33 pts of damage, doubled for the main one, with an attack skill of ten -you just have to right-click them in a combat to see. The higher damage you constated may be due to creatures with lower defenses.
I wonder how on EARTH a level 10+ hero became a courrier. That is so improbable it is impossible; the experience can and should be channeled to the main hero.
Comes a time when sharing experience is a better choice than stacking it onto your main hero (It takes at least 2 good heroes anyway, one general and one defender, everybody knows that). 2000 pts of experience is trifle for a hero at level 20, but it means much more to the 3rd lvl guy.

Consider the map GOOD TO GO. This map can and should be finished by at most week 3. Maybe the game won't be concluded, but one side will have established so powerful an advantage finishing the game is pointless.
Good to Go is a small map, with no or few undergrounds, where all factions comes equipped to the max, including grail for crying out loud. The others are also smallish maps typically divided by four or eight in the middle with an "X" or a "+" of simplistic obstacles, whose goal is a brawl by the end of week one.

Is that typical of HOMM3? Some will assuredly say yes. For His part, Nucleon thinks that the game has much more to offer than that. The best games are those with development, quests and events.
Really? I don't think so - it can be killed by neutrals. Try it yourself. I have a stack of Archangels and the Ballista I want destroyed. I attack neutral Crusaders. I cast Slow on the Crusaders. The Crusaders approach my Archangels. I wait. I wait some more. When the Crusaders are near enough, I fly my Archangels over to the other side. Too far from my Archangels, the Crusaders will naturally attack the Ballista, destroying it.

Another way is to get the Crusaders there - and then cast Meteor Shower. This AoE spell hurts your own troops, so the same occurs; the Ballista is destroyed.
It's kinda like a guy who cuts his finger off because his nails were too long. If you think that a ballista would be nefarious, Nucleon suggest you don't take one in the first place, as crazy as it sounds.
But I honestly feel you are picking on a slight mistake I made. Change my army to one which will not use a Ballista. What are you going to do now?
HOMM3 is a game where you should capitalise on your ennemy's small mistakes.

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topic

Unread postby csarmi » 27 Jan 2006, 14:49

:sighs:

www.toheroes.com
https://www.celestialheavens.com

go find a map that's NOT decided after 3-5 weeks
(maybe add one week for champion difficulty)

I also recommend you to go to www.heroescommunity.com and try posting that XP should be taken from chests; and capitol should be built first.

You'll get called names. So I won't have to do that myself :-)

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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 27 Jan 2006, 15:10

Csarmi- he'll come back having found some long XL SP map on celestialheavens ;)
You don't want to make enemies in Nuclear Engineering. -- T. Pratchett

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Unread postby csarmi » 27 Jan 2006, 16:43

Still, even long XL (multi) maps can't be to long. Both players do their job and a week 3-4 army is pretty much unstopable by neutrals; unless you are playing Unleashing the Bloodthirsty :-)

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Re: topic

Unread postby Nucleon » 28 Jan 2006, 03:00

csarmi wrote:go find a map that's NOT decided after 3-5 weeks
(maybe add one week for champion difficulty)
Okay; here is what Nucleon got:

HOMM3 Map listing

What you are saying is that *almost all* (if not all indeed) of these maps are done in 3-5 weeks?

Nucleon's first impression is that you exagerate.

His second impression is that many players stop playing once they got a setback, thus aborting the game.

That being said, it is a fact that many players crowded on a smallish map (hence with no exploration nor quests) must be a whole lot faster, of course. But Nucleon does not relish these kind of map. He likes the more RPG aspect of the game, He guesses.
You'll get called names. So I won't have to do that myself
Oh, and you're bordering on offense here, buddy; check that up. Not only it is rude, but also infantile. If your bunch call names someone who doesn't follow their credos, well I won't make it my bunch.

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Unread postby Banedon » 28 Jan 2006, 07:36

Okay, you win; a castle with seven pikemen is an impregnable thing.
Thank you. I realize you are being sarcastic, but your statement is true - to a point.
Once again, you assume many things. In the end, that's a risky strategy. Surely, the Stronghold should developp the Roc as soon as it can, but Inferno is not doing so bad with Hell Hounds at the start of a game. Unless the map screams for it, an Inferno played by Nucleon should have its Efreet Sultan one week after you do, along with many other forces and stronger heroes.

(As a sidenote; Nucleon favors Pit Lords development over Efreet Sultans, because Pit Lords plus Imps equals more Demons, the backbone of the Inferno.)
Tell me what I have assumed. Tell me also how it's risky. Stronghold will devlop Thunderbirds because they're fast and powerful. Hell Hounds are neither. You go ahead and build Hell Hounds - I will run circles around you like you do with Korbac and Dragonflies on Swamp terrain. I cannot understand how you claim to use only fast units yet prefer Hell Hounds to early Efreet Sultans.

In reply to your sidenote, I agree that that is a valid and effective strategy. Proves nothing - the early Efreet Sultan strategy is just as effective. I think Demon-raising comes into play only in very long maps.
You do not hesitate to advance that a faster scouting re-inforce your army, yet all you see in my decision to make my courrier effective is that it lacks 2 Efreet Sultans, causing Nucleon's assured defeat. Come on.
I do not understand what you are talking about.

Faster scouting (and thus faster expanding) will make my army stronger than yours.
Your courier is not lacking two Efreet Sultans, it has them.
Your courier is not ineffective - in fact, it is slightly more effective than mine. This comes at a cost; your main army becomes significantly weaker than mine.
You lose because of a combination of two things. One, your main army is weaker because you spend level 6 units on courier duty; two because your army moves slower than mine.
"Earthquake" is a risky thing, because the game might well decide that all walls are down before a single arrow tower is eliminated but "Ressurection" will assure victory with no loss, no matter how long it will take.

And nucleon usually equips his courrier with Earth Magic, Air Magic and Wisdom in the hopes that He will get one of the transport spells like "Town Portal", "Fly" or "Dimension Door".
Resurrection will allow you a victory without loss if and only if you meet certain criteria, which simply will not happen on a transport hero:

1. Pyre must learn Advanced Earth Magic.
2. Pyre must have as many spell points as is necessary to keep casting Resurrection.
3. Pyre must (because of the above two prequisites) be at a high level.

If your point is that all your courier heroes can be level 10 and above, I will say only that you play in fantasy land and nothing more.

As for Town Portal, Fly and Dimension Door, I should note that all three spells are extremely powerful. If you have them I will too. But - again, this is to be stressed - your courier hero should not be able to cast them more than once.
Sure, here it is; Arrow towers do 22-33 pts of damage, doubled for the main one, with an attack skill of ten -you just have to right-click them in a combat to see. The higher damage you constated may be due to creatures with lower defenses.
Allow me to rephrase my sentence.

Can anyone aside from Nucleon back up his / her statements?
Comes a time when sharing experience is a better choice than stacking it onto your main hero (It takes at least 2 good heroes anyway, one general and one defender, everybody knows that). 2000 pts of experience is trifle for a hero at level 20, but it means much more to the 3rd lvl guy.
If you're using one general and one defender, I assume you're splitting your main force?

2000 experience is a trifle for a level 20 hero - congratulations, you've just proved that Gold >>> Experience when it comes to treasure chests. And, I do not think your courier hero will have much time to pick up treasure chests. A level 3 courier is reasonable, but level 10 is extremely improbable.
Is that typical of HOMM3? Some will assuredly say yes. For His part, Nucleon thinks that the game has much more to offer than that. The best games are those with development, quests and events.
No, it is not. Good To Go is the map I play when I look for a quick battle (like I said, it is decided within two weeks). But you've conveniently ducked the other two maps I mentioned.
It's kinda like a guy who cuts his finger off because his nails were too long. If you think that a ballista would be nefarious, Nucleon suggest you don't take one in the first place, as crazy as it sounds.
OK, I don't take one. Would Cyra like do duel now?

HOMM3 is a game where you should capitalise on your ennemy's small mistakes.
OK, I bring my ballista. Would Cyra, now with 16 Naga Queens, still like to duel?

You do not have 50 Naga Queens. You CANNOT have 50 Naga Queens. If you continue to insist that you can, I rest my case.

PS: I will note that I did not really make a mistake then, because I specifically noted in that post I would not bring a ballista. The only "mistake" I made was unequipping the ballista, which can't be done. I'd realize that at once and give it to a courier hero. Therefore, in a real game (though in a real game you won't have 50 Naga Queens) Cyra would not catch Solmyr with a ballista.
His second impression is that many players stop playing once they got a setback, thus aborting the game.
That depends on how large the setback is. If you've just lost a main-to-main army battle, would you continue the game?

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Re: topic

Unread postby csarmi » 28 Jan 2006, 10:16

The beauty of it is that it is not my branch. Not at all...
And the answer for your first question is yes, I suppose.[

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Re: topic

Unread postby Pol » 28 Jan 2006, 10:56

csarmi wrote:The beauty of it is that it is not my branch. Not at all...
Yes, I see. :D

You are all talking about different maps, hence its improbable that you will agree on that.

In my humble opinion the good and small map is Realm of Chaos, and yes in multiplayer (in allied version) with good oponnent you won't finish it in one month. Reason? Map is open, instead of making ultimate battles, everyone move in the 7th day to conquere another position and risk the lose of it's own. Logisitc may finished that tactics, but only when the enemy has not an adequate hero. Because all are humans, s/he, of course, it will.

And our favourite subnote, when Inferno has access to the highest level spells the Stronghold do not.

After all, what has this discussion common with the title of the thread? You travell a little too far....
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Unread postby Banedon » 28 Jan 2006, 11:00

In my humble opinion the good and small map is Realm of Chaos, and yes in multiplayer (mostly in allied version) with good oponnent you won't finish it in one month. Reason? Map is open, instead of making ultimate battles, everyone move in the 7th day to conquere another position on lose it's own.
I do play Realm of Chaos, so I'm experienced enough on that map to give you a verdict. If it's two players, I think they will come to a confrontation sooner than not - 2 months is not an unlikely timeline; the players will agree to a battle on neutral ground that decides who wins (or, if one player is clearly better, he will press his advantage and win).

But if there are three or more players, the map can last quite a while. Problem with having 3 human players is that it brings in diplomacy. You can be better than the other two players, but if you sufer heavy casualties while defeating one, the other can hunt you down and win, too. Under these circumstances a map can last for upwards 6 months.

However, this isn't that important. In serious duels, it's always 1v1.

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Unread postby Pol » 28 Jan 2006, 11:13

Banedon wrote:However, this isn't that important. In serious duels, it's always 1v1.
Yes, with no doubt, discussing the Good to Go has a bigger potential.

PS I dislike serious 1v1 duels, more people more fun, and I never agreed with anyone on place for the ulitmate battle, I had crush him(her) or had been crushed. Here you must take care about the possibility that if you wiould kill one enemy you may sadly unleash the much stronger one. That's where the fun begin.
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Unread postby Banedon » 28 Jan 2006, 11:32

Yes, the more people there are the more fun it is. Diplomacy is, after all, a very intriguing part of the game.

I think your games have mostly ended in "ultimate battles". Your main hero would fight his main hero. If you win that battle you win the game; if you lose it's the other way round. Honestly I find no joy in waiting for death if I lose the ultimate battle.

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Unread postby Pol » 28 Jan 2006, 11:50

Maybe I like more local struggles, when you may exhaused your enemy so totally that no any ultimate battle happens. This is however very unlikely strategic on the most maps. :cry:
...are the more fun it is. Diplomacy is, after all, a very intriguing part of the game...
Ja, ja, ja. ;) :D (Sprechen sie Deutsche?)
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Unread postby Nucleon » 28 Jan 2006, 13:48

Banedon wrote:I realize you are being sarcastic
This time, you assumed rightly. ;)
Tell me what I have assumed. Tell me also how it's risky. Stronghold will devlop Thunderbirds because they're fast and powerful. Hell Hounds are neither. You go ahead and build Hell Hounds - I will run circles around you like you do with Korbac and Dragonflies on Swamp terrain. I cannot understand how you claim to use only fast units yet prefer Hell Hounds to early Efreet Sultans.
Well, for once, you assume that Nucleon could not take anything with a Logistician and two Efreet Sultans while you assume that you will bend the map in two with six Efreet Sultans.

You assume that your map has no chokepoints of any sort, and is literally lavished with goods.

About the risks; if your (presumed) Logistician with his 6 ES goes too far, or runs in staunch defenses (such as an ambush "event" dot), your castle is defenseless, far-behind and under-developped.

(Note the "ifs" here and there; Nucleon is extremely wary of the context of a given map; by all means, your strategy could doubtlessly work on certain maps.)

Hellhounds are sufficiently fast and powerful to win all vital mines around your castle and are efficient enough in defense. Of course, that's a lvl 3 (and a half) unit, largely under-estimated, but it is efficient enough during the first two weeks of a typical map. You won't conquer the world with that, thought.
In reply to your sidenote, I agree that that is a valid and effective strategy. Proves nothing - the early Efreet Sultan strategy is just as effective. I think Demon-raising comes into play only in very long maps.
"Demon-raising" is a strategy well-suited to the start of the game, when you've got imps galore; that's why Nucleon aims for Pit Lords early, even only one; Later in the game, it works less efficiently as your imps (that Nucleon usually don't buy past the two first weeks) are surprisingly kick-ass by your hero's own defense ratings; You often end up killing the neutral opposition out of lassitude when only about half your stack of Soon-to-be-Demons Imps is killed (area spells and despicable Magogs can help you with that, althought).
Faster scouting (and thus faster expanding) will make my army stronger than yours.
Your courier is not lacking two Efreet Sultans, it has them.
Your courier is not ineffective - in fact, it is slightly more effective than mine. This comes at a cost; your main army becomes significantly weaker than mine.
You lose because of a combination of two things. One, your main army is weaker because you spend level 6 units on courier duty; two because your army moves slower than mine.
Well, with such an efficient courrier, Nucleon surely can re-supply his main army with ease, thus negating the loss of a couple ES, isn't it? And if it's not enough and pushing comes to shoving, well, the courrier can take the whole army from the general at the front and quickly transport it to the defender on the home front, too. I don't see your advantage in the vague, antagonistic scenario you assume.
Resurrection will allow you a victory without loss if and only if you meet certain criteria, which simply will not happen on a transport hero:

1. Pyre must learn Advanced Earth Magic.
2. Pyre must have as many spell points as is necessary to keep casting Resurrection.
3. Pyre must (because of the above two prequisites) be at a high level.

If your point is that all your courier heroes can be level 10 and above, I will say only that you play in fantasy land and nothing more.
Nucleon builds a strong general first, then a defender (who may be the courrier itself; great for the mill runs). And if the map permits it, moderatly strong linking heroes between them. It is not unusual that Nucleon's courriers get to lvl10 (not so hard a thing, considering He sometimes favour xp from chests), simply by "cleaning around" the Capital.

And Demoniacs are quite proficient in magic; Most of the time they get the skills you mentionned with ease.
Can anyone aside from Nucleon back up his / her statements?
Why don't you check for yourself? It seems that our private, irrelevant pissing contest interest no one but us, and sometimes csarmi. You just have to right-click on the arrow towers in combat. :)
If you're using one general and one defender, I assume you're splitting your main force?
Nucleon sure do, for many reasons. To defend the Capital, to make the main army faster, to leave at least one un-occupied slot in the main army (for diplomacy and alien dwellings) and to leave the Defender some decent forces to clean around.

In the Inferno's case, Nucleon usualy leaves Cerberi, Imps, often the Gogs (or what's left of them) and maybe even the Pit Lords, if He suspects an incoming invasion, so the defender could raise a few more Demons.
2000 experience is a trifle for a level 20 hero - congratulations, you've just proved that Gold >>> Experience when it comes to treasure chests. And, I do not think your courier hero will have much time to pick up treasure chests. A level 3 courier is reasonable, but level 10 is extremely improbable.
One man's meat is another one's poison.
Good To Go is the map I play when I look for a quick battle (like I said, it is decided within two weeks). But you've conveniently ducked the other two maps I mentioned.
Is it necessary? I know Crimson and Clover, for one, is the kind of symetric, four-players-each-in-their-respective-corner kind of map He refered to... Nucleon thinks he made his point clear enough.

csarmi
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Re: topic

Unread postby csarmi » 28 Jan 2006, 16:02

Pol wrote: You are all talking about different maps, hence its improbable that you will agree on that.
We might be talking about different maps, but when someone comes with claims such as "build capitol first", "choose experience from chests", wants to take a single creature stack into a pvp fight and even tries to defend it... or tries to deny that logistics skill is a must and specialists of that are not overpowered, i can safely tell he is a noob.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: topic

Unread postby Bandobras Took » 28 Jan 2006, 17:11

csarmi wrote:
Pol wrote: You are all talking about different maps, hence its improbable that you will agree on that.
We might be talking about different maps, but when someone comes with claims such as "build capitol first", "choose experience from chests", wants to take a single creature stack into a pvp fight and even tries to defend it... or tries to deny that logistics skill is a must and specialists of that are not overpowered, i can safely tell he is a noob.
You need to specify new to multiplayer.

Any of the above things are perfectly acceptable when all you've got to do is beat H3's AI.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Nucleon
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Re: topic

Unread postby Nucleon » 28 Jan 2006, 18:26

csarmi wrote:We might be talking about different maps, but when someone comes with claims such as "build capitol first", "choose experience from chests", wants to take a single creature stack into a pvp fight and even tries to defend it... or tries to deny that logistics skill is a must and specialists of that are not overpowered, i can safely tell he is a noob.
Csarmi, your posts seem little more than means to get a higher post count. Your hability to comprehend your interlocutor correctly is largely deficient. You also seem to be a one-type-of-map/one-strategy player, bent on exaggeration.

Get someone to help you read what Nucleon posted since the start of this thread. You will (maybe) realize that Nucleon favors single-stack tactics, yes, but as a mean to defeat Solmyr at the start of a game, a valid strategy.

As for Capitals and treasure chests; It is certain that you will take the money if you've got no Capital, but Nucleon, if He can, prefers having 2k more each day and give experience to his starting heroes, so they can developp useful skills, like "Logistics", to make them good at what they are assigned to.

As to "deny that logistics skill is a must"; are you sure you can comprehend english correctly? Or maybe you've just got a short attention span. Or maybe you just are... Nahh. That wouldn't be nice...

:disagree:
Last edited by Nucleon on 28 Jan 2006, 20:07, edited 1 time in total.


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