Wishes ideas and proposals for the next version

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vhilhu
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Postby vhilhu » Sep 15 2006, 18:29

another:

as element magic (earth, water, etc) is overpowered by far, maybe each hero should have only 1 of them and it should be with him from the very beginning so there wouldnt be any "who is lucky enough to get the elemental magic skill first" stuff. so all heroes start with 1 magic skill(maybe depending on bio and race, eg witch cant get fire) and cant get the others in any way.


so elemental magic should also be rebalanced(or some heroes will get ignored right away if you follow my last suggestion), i think fire magic skill is underpowered compared to others(it almost doesnt affect blind, the best spell in the game) (earth-townportal/slow, water-teleport/prayer/forget, air-haste/fly , fire skill improves significantly only curse, it IS weaker.) anyone want to argue about fire magic skill?


scouting improvement(random event) should be limited by time: i got a couple of gold dragons join me on week 2! lvl 5 and 6 shouldnt join until month 2, lvl 7 until month 3 or 2.5(third week).

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Postby vhilhu » Sep 16 2006, 8:10

and yet another:

can you give numbers to creatures that have their numbers higher than the original limit(the point from which on you can get only succubi), like hell steeds? i dont know if this can be done, but i cant use those creatures in scripts. and my game crashes each time i surrender with a hero who has those creatures and cant be restored.

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Postby Fnord » Sep 17 2006, 20:00

Crusader_2005 wrote:Some ideas:

1) Being able to customize EVERYTHING in the map editor(like the gold,exp from chests - they should be able to give whatever amount, set by the creator; etc) :creative:


Agreed that this would be really nice, but it seems like it may not be possible without the source code. :(

Crusader_2005 wrote:2) Being able to cast some spells on heroes at the adventure map(like slow,haste etc). They should only be active for 3 turns and cost 10 times the spellpoints of casting it during combat and they should affect the hero or all of his troops.


I think at least one script with some adventure map-affecting spells of this nature is being made. At present, we can't add new spells to the game but this may change, so this means we can only simulate new spells (e.g., using a right-click on spell book, and then a dialog box to choose from new scripted spells, etc.).

Crusader_2005 wrote:3) Allowing neutral monsters to grow more than 4000 in numbers. :D


This seems to cause overflow problems in the game. I think we would need the source code to fix it (probably some basic type structures would have to be changed or something like that).

Crusader_2005 wrote:4) Making random maps a bit more customizable. You may notice that all neutrals around towns are mostly level 1 or 2(rarely 3). And if you are lucky the map has some regions with powerful artifacts,pandora boxes and strong guardians(I'm talking about random XL maps mostly). I also played a map when a AI player was completely isolated(by terrain); lucky for me I found the Spellbinder's Hat.


You can create new random map templates but I think there's still a fair bit that's not controllable. To really do much about this I imagine we'd need the source code. :(

Crusader_2005 wrote:5) Removing the info messages from the Wogified artifacts(pendant of holiness, Surcoat of counterpoise etc) that are really annoying since they pop up every week and there is no way to prevent this!


Okay, I'll make a note about this.

Crusader_2005 wrote:6) Making the AI play much better since it never has counter-spy networks, nor does it steal resources, nor does it upgrade its towns except for the starting one (with mithril for extra gold, improved creature dwellings etc).


I know the script author of the Espionage script had planned on a new version that would include AI support. I haven't heard much from him lately so I suppose he's busy but I hope eventually he could do it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen gold reserve and creature growth upgrades in other AI towns than starting ones but I'll keep an eye on it.

Crusader_2005 wrote:7) Making mithril a new resource in the marketplace


A bad idea. If it can be traded for, it won't be as rare and precious. Anyway, I don't think this could be added to the standard marketplace interface without source code.

Crusader_2005 wrote:8) Making the warlord's banner cost some real amounts of resources not 1 from any type(when it is sold at the Artifacts merchant)


Yes, I think a number of the new WoG Artifacts need to have their costs set properly.

Crusader_2005 wrote:9) Making spellbooks able to be retrieved using the Living Skull.(this could be a bug)


If it retrieved them it would just retrieve an empty spell book due to the way the spell book script operates (picking up the book is just a trigger for the rest of the spell book script that gives the spells).

I suppose it might be possible to integrate the two scripts but is it really a good idea to allow learning of so many spells this way?

Crusader_2005 wrote:10) Being able to see ALL spells affecting a creature stack during combat!! Same for morale/luck modifiers


I think one of the team is working on a script for this.

Crusader_2005 wrote:11) Creatures with negative luck should have a chance of doing half damage.


I think one of the team is working on a script for this too.

Crusader_2005 wrote:12) The maximum morale/luck modifier should be +-10. I mean that the chances for the corresponding bonus should be increased by 5% per point(to a max of 50%) instead of the actual values(max chances at +3 bonus).


I don't think this is possible without the source code.

Crusader_2005 wrote:13) Commanders should cast any of their spells at Expert level(where applicable, Advanced if not).


You mean mass versions? I think that would be way too powerful (at least at early levels). Anyway, we have a planned major update to the Commander spell system for 3.59.
- Fnord

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Postby Fnord » Sep 17 2006, 20:03

vhilhu wrote:and yet another:

can you give numbers to creatures that have their numbers higher than the original limit(the point from which on you can get only succubi), like hell steeds? i dont know if this can be done, but i cant use those creatures in scripts. and my game crashes each time i surrender with a hero who has those creatures and cant be restored.


The new creatures do all have numbers. You can set them or check them with ERM scripts or give them to heroes, etc. The numbers are in the 3.58f ERM Help (I think the download file is call wog_tools or something).

If your game is crashing when you surrender, it sounds like there's a bug with your install. I suggest reinstalling the game.
- Fnord

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Postby vhilhu » Sep 17 2006, 20:12

half of the new creatures have new numebrs, the other half dont. and that surrendering thing, it only happens when you have those new numberless creatures.

or maybe my wog is just old, i will check that out..

Image

as you can see, no sorceresses, no hell steeds. when i tried to use higher numbers than Santa Gremlins, i only got succubuses (an ARMY of succubuses as if they were some ordinary creature)

EDIT: missing: werewolf, hell steed, sorceress, sylvan centaur, dracolich

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Postby Pol » Sep 17 2006, 20:23

You have old version, and it continues...

174 Paladin (attacker)
175 Hierophant (attacker)
176 Temple Guardian (attacker)
177 Succubus (attacker)
178 Soul Eater (attacker)
179 Brute (attacker)
180 Ogre Leader (attacker)
181 Shaman (attacker)
182 Astral Spirit (attacker)
183 Paladin (defender)
184 Hierophant (defender)
185 Temple Guardian (defender)
186 Succubus (defender)
187 Soul Eater (defender)
188 Brute (defender)
189 Ogre Leader (defender)
190 Shaman (defender)
191 Astral Spirit (defender)
192 Sylvan Centaur
193 Sorceress
194 Werewolf
195 Hell Steed
196 Dracolich

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Postby Crusader_2005 » Sep 20 2006, 16:25

Crusader_2005 wrote:

13) Commanders should cast any of their spells at Expert level(where applicable, Advanced if not).


You mean mass versions? I think that would be way too powerful (at least at early levels). Anyway, we have a planned major update to the Commander spell system for 3.59.


Actually no. Mass versions are indeed toooooo powerful. I mean that the spells they cast should be for only one creature but at the highest level of skill that does not make the spell have a mass effect. E.g. Precision from advanced level is the same as Expert except for the mass effect(hope i'm not wrong), so the commander should cast it at Advanced level. On the other hand, Antimagic does not have a mass effect at expert level so it should be cast at this level. Now if there are any spells that at expert level become better apart from the mass effect, they should be cast at this level but only on ONE unit, if possible. This should be true for any other spells cast by any other units. Please update AI commanders so that they don't cast spells on creatures that already have them, or useless ones(like Bless on the First Aid Tent!!!! :-D :-D :-D )

Also, the astral spirit's summon elemental is much too powerful. He should have his old spells back(can't remember them! ****!).

Also, please note that the duration of the second spell is a NEGATIVE NUMBER so is never in effect!. I modified the script and removed the values that were substracted from MP and it seems to work. Still, the duration is quite small. Please fix this.

Also, the "Dispel" spell cancels any active spells even those gained from experience. Haven't tested the Efreet Sultans for their natural fire shield though, but I think they are OK.

Please fix the chances of Death Blow and Age occurence to Dread Knights and Ghost Dragons. Also for the Poison of Wivern Monarchs. At ace level they should be 100% and 95% respectively(at least that's what +80%, =100 and +75% mean in my opinion, with a 20% natural chance for Age and Poison).

One more thing: please fix the animate dead of the Soul Eater, in the sense that it is USELESS!!! This is the only commander which doesn't have to cast spells at all. Please make him cast something like Air Shield and Haste or something. PLEASE!! :D :D

Note that the Badge of Courage makes your troops immune to friendly mindspells too!! By this I mean Frenzy. Don't know about others(if any).

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FORCE FIELD

Postby vhilhu » Sep 23 2006, 18:39

1)

About the force field spell (its that blue stuff that just blocks the path in combat), i get the feeling its duration cannot be affected in any way (not spell power, not artefacts that lengthen unit enchantments like ring of conjuring). Is it true? if so, then you should make its duration 3 times longer. and make Force Field bigger!
so that not-learned/basic=advanced, advanced/expert=something even bigger. can you? force field is cool, but its just that other spells(blessings/curses of all kinds) are more useful.


2)

also, i think of such option: each spell should be able to be cast only once per combat so its not just the few best spells that are used.

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Some other suggestions

Postby Crusader_2005 » Oct 10 2006, 9:29

Here are some other suggestions I thought about. Hope you like them. Hope I didn't double post any of them.

1) Some spells become really useless after the game was played for a long period. So maybe they should have some secondary abilities. For example: Ice bolt,Frost Ring - should have a chance of 33% of freezing the target(s) for 3 rounds; their damage should be also increased depending on the hero level. Lightning bolt, Chain Lightning - should have a chance of 10% of shocking the target stack for 3% of its total life. Magic arrow - should have a chance of 15% that a random non-damage spell also affects the target(the spell should be from the appropriate magic school that the Magic Arrow was cast from).Fireball, Inferno - should have a chance of 33% that the targets are cursed/berserked/blinded/fire wall appears/misfortuned; also their damage should be increased, maybe considering the hero level also. Hypnotize,Stone Skin,Weakness,Slayer,Bloodlust,Destroy Undead,Death Riple - should be enhanced maybe by adding as a new factor the hero level. Land Mine - should have a 7% chance of stunning the enemy for that and the next round, or just increase the damage done by adding as a new factor the hero level.Same for Meteor Shower/Implosion. All of these secondary spells should be cast (if the chance occurs) at the skill level of the appropriate magic skill the hero has(but with no mass-effect where applicable). This way it would matter if you cast a Magic Arrow from Air/Earth/Fire/Water magic school.

2) The Disease ability is quite useless. It should be enhanced or at least be made cumulative.

3) In computer-controlled towns(EXCEPT the starting one), they never build Increased growth for creatures, nor Improved gold reserve I think. Also, these towns are most of the time poorly developed(except the creature dwellings), even if the computer player has more than enough resources. This happens on all difficulty settings.

4) Cloned/Ressurected/Animated/Re-birthed(Phoenix, Troll) units do not keep the experience level of the initial targets. At least the cloned ones and the Phoenixes/Trolls should do.

5) When defending against a siege, the defenders can get hurt by their own moat if they step on it. It should be made that only enemies be damaged by it. Also, later on in the game, the damage done by the moat is insignificant. It should be enhanced according to the number of days passed since the citadel was built, the level of the defending hero, his ballistics skill level etc.

6) The Death Riple that Liches may cast before an attack has a fixed damage of 45. It should be adjusted to do damage according to the number of liches since otherwise it is totally useless. A possible formula is: 4 x (number of liches) + 3 x (hero level) x (lich/power lich experience level). Same for Nightmares.

7) When a Succubus casts Fire Shield on Efreet Sultans, what level does the spell have? It should be the highest between the Efreet's enchantment and the Succubus' spell. Also, all commanders should cast their spells with Expert proficiency(where applicable, meaning except for spells that only gain a "mass" effect at "Expert" level, in which case "Advanced" level should be used). Same for all creatures that may cast spells(after gaining experience or not).

8) Darkness Dragons don't do extra damage against Titans and Giants but only against Lords of Thunder, although they should since these monsters are just upgraded "versions" of each other. This is true for many other creatures that can do extra damage against some "natural enemies" but not to their upgraded/non-upgraded kind(sometimes this ability is gained through experience).

9) Computer players should organize Counter-spy networks and train spies.

10) Make monsters that fight you when fishing in magic wells to be at least as powerful as your army. Fighting 5 ogres when having 100 ghost dragon is totally pointless.

11) In 90% of the cases when playing a random XL map against 2 AIs and the Fortress town is randomly picked for me, the enemy players are Inferno and Rampart! There must be something wrong here...

12) Heroes' commanders that may accompany neutral monsters are always level 1(this is also true for all commanders from places like the Imp Cache). Please adjust this so that more interesting fights can occur(progressively increase the level of commanders and give them skills/artifacts; also allow those heroes to cast spells of higher and higher levels etc).

13) In the enhanced commanders script, PLEASE change the spells that the Astral Spirit can cast to the old ones(counterstrike and slayer I think). Summon elemental is just too powerful and imbalanced(same for the Prayer of the Temple Guardian - please revert it to Precision and whatever). Same thing for the abilities Poison -> Death Stare and Magic Miror -> Fire Shield; this way battles are much more fun and commanders become much more important. Or, better, make separate WOG options just for these things. In other words I want to use the script of Enhanced Commanders but with NO changes to the spells they cast(all of them should still cast 2 spells on friendly units). Also, the Soul Eater's animate dead is USELESS!! Please change it into Air Shield + something else(haste,shield,slayer,stone skin etc). It happened to me once that I couldn't cast animate dead with this commander(on some vampire lords) even if I have casted it only twice and the magic skill was at master level.

14) It would be nice to be able to combine all of the protective orbs(of firmament, silt, fire, rain) into one that provides even greater protection and damage. Same for the tomes of magic - a secret spell should also become available, like a mass-implosion of much higher damage(it should be from a 5th magic school - e.g. Cosmos - that no orbs can protect against, but only the magic resistance skill). This way magic resistance does become more important.

15) Heroes should be able to destroy any artifact they own(maybe after dropping it and ctrl+right clicking on it). Also, when the hero's inventory is full and there are still artifacts to be taken from an enemy hero that was just defeated, they shouldn't go to waste - they should just be dropped(on the adventure map) in a special type of chest. Or, even better, heroes should be able to select what artifacts they want to get from an enemy(any kind of enemy) after defeating him, and the other ones may just go to waste...

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Postby sputnik » Oct 11 2006, 9:52

Questions:
1) The Sagamosa scripts: are they going to be a part of WoG 3.59?
2) On another website, a script called "Architect" was available for download. I tried to make it work on my 3.58 version, but it didn't work. What kind of script was it anyway, and is it going to be available in the 3.59 version?
3) When is WoG 3.59 available?

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Postby Hunter Killer » Oct 11 2006, 19:43

I'd just like to say that I absolutely disagree with Crusader on the usefulness of the Soul Eater's Animate Dead spell. It does seem a bit bugged (ie, I won't be able to cast it sometimes), but when it works AD is a godsend. I've won a few battles just by using AD at the right time, and I'd be sad to see it go.
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Postby Crusader_2005 » Oct 11 2006, 23:11

Ok, what's the point of raising a pack of vampires in a late-game battle? yes, it is usefull during early fight when you can't afford to lose too much army. Late-game it becomes useless. I didn't really mean that the skill should be removed, just buffed. If not, then it should be replaced with something more useful. I never ever use it late-game since I never got in a fight with such an equal army to mine that several creatures brought from the dead made the difference in the end - I'd rather use the commander to attack(may paralyse etc) which is much better, in my opinion. Maybe a separate WoG option should be made just for this... maybe no one will be upset this way... too bad I don't have the time because I would have done it myself...

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Postby Mytical » Nov 5 2006, 10:17

I would like to see some buildings that would place random buffs/curses on your army until after the next battle. Like Mass Bless or Mass Curse, Mass Haste or Mass Slow. This would add a little bit of risk to the game, because the building may help you or hurt you. However, if it helps you you get no exp, but if it hurts you you get a certain ammount of exp. So even when it curses you you get some benifit out of it.
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Postby shinobihitokiri10 » Nov 7 2006, 3:28

I,m just a player, so I don't know what you exactly can do but i have two ideas:

1. It would be fun to sacrifice some creatures for resources by clickin' them in some special way(ctrl+click or something) for example:
Dendroids for wood
Stone/Gold/Diamond golems for ore/gold/gems
Crystal dragons for crystals
Stone Gargoyles for ore
and so on....
It would be good if decision to sacrifice those creatures would put up the fight with them, just like fighting inhabitants of dwellings when player destroys a town.

2.In games where the daily 4% creature growth is on, the Emblem that gives 15 gold per troop is too powerfull. I had hero with all seven slots in army full with sprites. 20 k sprites in each slot(from Ring of diplomat).:D I've boosted their speed with artifacts and cast expert prayer at the beginning of the battle.That was enough for all oponents on the map. From all those sprites I had LOTS of money. So maybe it would be good idea to make script, that makes player to pay salary to his army, let's say... once a week. That way, the bigger army player would have, the more money he has to spend.

Hope I'm not making a fool of myself, writing this

:D

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Postby Shark » Nov 7 2006, 20:23

@shinobi:
pay salaries for your armies each week ? and how are you supposed to buy new troops with that crap rule ?

as i see it, using the army growth script and the Emblem is more of an exploit than a bug... its not a bug because it works perfecly (gives you 15 gold per troop, and since your troops grow exponentially, so does your cash)...

i never really used that rule (army growth) because all you need to do in that case is buff up tons of archers/pikemen and you're bound to win... or even worse -- magogs... i don't even wanna see a 200k magog army...

anyways, the point is -- if you have the growth and the emblem, the army salary script sounds like a bad idea (just imagine how much 200k sprites even cost, and if you ever lost the emblem, you'd pretty much lose all your cash in no-time) but in a regular (no growth) games it just sounds like a dumb idea (how are you going to buy new troops / upkeep a 4 week army with just 30k of gold?)

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Postby Arkas » Nov 7 2006, 21:41

shinobihitokiri10 wrote:I,m just a player, so I don't know what you exactly can do but i have two ideas:

1. It would be fun to sacrifice some creatures for resources by clickin' them in some special way(ctrl+click or something) for example:
Dendroids for wood
Stone/Gold/Diamond golems for ore/gold/gems
Crystal dragons for crystals
Stone Gargoyles for ore
and so on....
It would be good if decision to sacrifice those creatures would put up the fight with them, just like fighting inhabitants of dwellings when player destroys a town.

2.In games where the daily 4% creature growth is on, the Emblem that gives 15 gold per troop is too powerfull. I had hero with all seven slots in army full with sprites. 20 k sprites in each slot(from Ring of diplomat).:D I've boosted their speed with artifacts and cast expert prayer at the beginning of the battle.That was enough for all oponents on the map. From all those sprites I had LOTS of money. So maybe it would be good idea to make script, that makes player to pay salary to his army, let's say... once a week. That way, the bigger army player would have, the more money he has to spend.

Hope I'm not making a fool of myself, writing this

:D


Fighting any of your own creatures could become an exploit. Especially 1st level troops.

Also, if you think the Emblem is too powerful, try 5 of them with the Surcoat that enhances other artifacts...

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Postby shinobihitokiri10 » Nov 8 2006, 1:34

@Arkas
I've tried it with 3 emblems and surcoat once and i have enough:)

@Shark
I think that with salary rule for normal game troops colud be cheaper(10-30% of original gold price?).And except that there are emblems, gold mines, mithril upgrades(if someone uses them), so it can be more than 30K of gold per week. I don't think the 4% growth is bad rule. I have it in my random rules and it's fun.The creature growth is limited so 200k of magogs isn't something common.BTW: Whats so scary 'bout magogs? They are weak. Santa gremlins with upgraded guardians are far much better. And where did I write that using 4% growth and emblems is a BUG? Anyway, thanks for calling my idea crappy. Then maybe you will think up something better?If you don't use some scripts it doesn't mean that no one else is using it. Don't act like a guru...

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Postby Steven Aus » Nov 19 2006, 21:26

shinobihitokiri10 wrote:@Arkas
I've tried it with 3 emblems and surcoat once and i have enough:)

@Shark
I think that with salary rule for normal game troops colud be cheaper(10-30% of original gold price?).And except that there are emblems, gold mines, mithril upgrades(if someone uses them), so it can be more than 30K of gold per week. I don't think the 4% growth is bad rule. I have it in my random rules and it's fun.The creature growth is limited so 200k of magogs isn't something common.BTW: Whats so scary 'bout magogs? They are weak. Santa gremlins with upgraded guardians are far much better. And where did I write that using 4% growth and emblems is a BUG? Anyway, thanks for calling my idea crappy. Then maybe you will think up something better?If you don't use some scripts it doesn't mean that no one else is using it. Don't act like a guru...


One of the central parts of WoG is that to each his own. :) Unless a person is in a multiplayer game, they can use the WoG scripts that they want and should be encouraged to make their own choices. People like all sorts of scripts and that's fine. =)

Also, if you're interested in making Gogs and Magogs a bit more competitive you could use Enhanced Monsters and/or Rebalanced Factions where they are buffed a bit so they are not useless anymore (and eventually in a future version of WoG all friendly troops could be made immune to the Magog's, and maybe the Lich's/Power Lich's, shooter radius).

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Ambiance sounds

Postby Burdon » Jan 17 2007, 10:56

Well, that's more a funny idea than anything else, but do you think it could be possible to add ambiance sounds on a map ? We could for instance put birds singing in oak trees, some scary monster breathing on lava volcanos... etc.
I don't expect too much, considering the huge amount of work the team has to do... But just think about it :)

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Postby Pol » Jan 17 2007, 13:28

Well, past in the time I was also thinking about adding ambience lights and filters, theoretically it's not so hard, pracically it means to create other application and wrap WoG in. For sound it should be easier, though still would be necessary to enchant ERM library. ;)
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