The Damage is Already Done

The game Might & Magic: Heroes VII, developed by Limbic Entertainment.

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How enthusiastic are you?

I will preorder, even if it is $99
5
6%
I will preorder without paying a premium
4
5%
I will buy when it comes out, but I have not marked the day on my calendar
19
25%
I will wait for reviews and bug fixes before I buy
22
29%
I don't mind waiting a year for it to be discounted (OP's vote)
13
17%
Highly unlikely to buy, but if I get it for Christmas I will play it
9
12%
Absolutely nothing produced by Ubisoft!
5
6%
 
Total votes: 77

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Panda Tar
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Panda Tar » Jul 27 2015, 15:52

This is how ranting pays the price. Wonder how people would react if not given a preview of these things, and then they would buy the game: "What the hell is this thing?!"
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby cjlee » Jul 28 2015, 11:40

"No one would believe this game is 2015 with the graphics this game has. It doesn't have to be high tech, but it does need to be good, which it is not."

It doesn't matter to many TBS players that the game does not have 2015-standard graphics. It matters that the game has 2015-standard requirements with 2008-standard graphics.

And yeah, Panda Tar, I think our ranting and criticisms are really very important. They are saving innocent victims from buying Ubisoft's inferior products.

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Kalah
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Kalah » Jul 28 2015, 12:41

I was talking with Ethric the other day and we agree that a lot of inferior games are sold at the same price as great games. While the tendency is that prices drop sooner on lower quality games, wouldn't it be interesting to see a game producer actually saying that they're so proud of their game that they're increasing the price? ;)

It would be kind of like cars. Audis and BMWs are more expensive than Kias and Peugeots simply because they're of higher quality. But would you pay 15% more for a great game?
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Dalai
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Dalai » Jul 28 2015, 13:13

Kalah wrote:It would be kind of like cars. Audis and BMWs are more expensive than Kias and Peugeots simply because they're of higher quality. But would you pay 15% more for a great game?

I don't buy inferior games and sometimes buy great games. So it is fair to say I pay 100% more for a great game. :D
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Kalah » Jul 28 2015, 13:38

Yeah but the point stands: you don't have to pay BMW-price for a car. You can get a perfectly decent Toyota or Volkswagen for less. So why are BMW and Audi charging more? Because they can. People still buy their cars because they know they are better.

Perhaps producers of AAA games will start to charge more if they know their games are great.
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Pitsu » Jul 28 2015, 15:05

I probably would not notice 15% price change, because I am ill-informed about the prices anyway. I play and buy very few games, and usually when they have been already out for a while and all information is indicating that I'll like the game. Once such decision is made 15% change in price does not matter.
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby mr.hackcrag » Jul 28 2015, 20:45

cjlee wrote:
It doesn't matter to many TBS players that the game does not have 2015-standard graphics. It matters that the game has 2015-standard requirements with 2008-standard graphics..


It matters because if they are going 3D and it looks like hell, then I will be even angrier that the game is not 2D. :flame:

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Dalai
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Dalai » Jul 29 2015, 15:35

Kalah wrote:Yeah but the point stands: you don't have to pay BMW-price for a car. You can get a perfectly decent Toyota or Volkswagen for less. So why are BMW and Audi charging more? Because they can. People still buy their cars because they know they are better.

Perhaps producers of AAA games will start to charge more if they know their games are great.

True.

In case of a game I can afford it even if it is expensive, as I am limited by leisure time, not money. In case of BMW vs Opel you are much more often limited by budget. If you can afford BMW - you go ahead and enjoy it. (otherwise buy Toyota - it's the best for the money)

Back to games - you need to know your audience. If most of audience are like me - yes, you can charge a premium for quality. If most of the audience are kids who are limited by 20 USD - you will be unable to charge 21 USD regardless of quality.
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Panda Tar
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Panda Tar » Jul 29 2015, 15:47

Audience is indeed a key point. Still, these days it's likely that games now cover all ages. Back when we were kids, video games were still targeted and thought as for young people only.

What I find sort of unnerving are some 'default' prices they launch for consoles. Almost all games have the same prices and here in my country, it can get really expensive if you want to have some titles. Not to mention the cost of consoles themselves.

Speaking for me now, I am one that wouldn't mind spending a bit more for a great game.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Salamandre » Jul 29 2015, 19:26

The problem IMO, is not how much I could spend for a video game, even if great. But if is normal that a video game gets more expensive than, let's say, the whole Shakespeare work (60 euros Amazon). There is a new order of priorities emerging right now, up to us to stand for or against, but at least, have some wise arguments.

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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby mr.hackcrag » Jul 30 2015, 6:40

I would also like developers to charge much less for games they release that are unfinished, full of bugs, and released prematurely. MUCH LESS. :devil:

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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Dalai » Aug 4 2015, 15:52

Salamandre wrote:The problem IMO, is not how much I could spend for a video game, even if great. But if is normal that a video game gets more expensive than, let's say, the whole Shakespeare work (60 euros Amazon). There is a new order of priorities emerging right now, up to us to stand for or against, but at least, have some wise arguments.
Well, 300 years from now you will be able to buy the set of all Ubisoft or Fireaxis games for much less :D

But seriously - modern game is a product of millions man-hours of work and quite expensive production base. You can't directly compare it to work of a single individual, even a genius.
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby magritte2 » Aug 4 2015, 19:45

Kalah wrote:Perhaps producers of AAA games will start to charge more if they know their games are great.


They already do. AAA games are released at prices as high as $75 in Canada, but indy releases are mostly $20 or less.

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Kalah
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Kalah » Aug 4 2015, 20:58

I'm not surprised that indy games sell for less, but all studio games seem to sell for full prices - albeit being dumped on sales after a while.
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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby Panda Tar » Aug 17 2015, 15:32

A video from Gamescom for those who haven't watched yet. I haven't, but someone might be interested.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Re: The Damage is Already Done

Postby parcaleste » Aug 19 2015, 4:16

Man, that was a small battlefield... Is it my imagination or did I saw some resources on it? Otherwise various/weird obstacles I like. Esp. if they are interactive.

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Re: The Beta: Impressions

Postby cjlee » Aug 31 2015, 3:40

Ioran16,

Have you played H3 before? It seems Ubisoft did not learn the Heroes 3 lesson.

There is no need to copy older versions of the game, let me stress. What you need to learn are the PRINCIPLES that makes up a good game.

Heroes 3 was endlessly replayable because of the vast number of tactics and combinations and strategies and spells that made different ways of playing possible. Everything had its own rules and abilities and players were not locked into fixed strategies.

In some situations the ‘rush’ factions like Fortress and Stronghold could get level 7s by the end of the week. But if they didn’t exploit their advantage within 3 weeks, they would be financially challenged or threatened by superior spells.

In H6 Ubisoft made the top tier creatures way too weak and unexceptional. Angel could be overwhelmed by a relatively small number of fast ghouls (about 30 IIRC) charging across the battlefield in the first turn. That hurt the storyline and it made a ‘masses’ strategy the default winner. No need to get top tier, just get tons of lower tiers and you’re a winner anyway without needing to strategize, choose skills, use spells or buildings to give your ghouls any extra edge. Not like H3, where if you want 1000 Gremlins to beat an Azure Dragon, at least you have to rack your brains, look out for double mana springs, look through your backpack for the correct artifacts, buy an ammo cart, bring along distracting cannon fodder to battle or at least a unit fast enough to give you the first turn vs Azure dragons, etc.

It’s not wrong to prevent people from buying all creatures up. It’s also the Heroes 3 way. Players in some factions should be forced to choose and prioritize, not bring the kitchen sink to battle. EG in Heroes 3 Magogs are excellent artillery units for castle defence, but most players don’t hire them when out campaigning because you can’t afford all Inferno creatures.

1) The unit costs for Champion units should be proportional to their power and benefits to the hero. I suspect Ubisoft just randomly assigned costs once again. Fortunately this is something that can be fixed in a patch. Blizzard tweaked the costs and requirements of their units thousands of times in future patches.

2) Based on your description of town level restriction, I suspect Ubisoft never had any employee who played Heroes 3. They would have appreciated the principle of different ways of building your castle.

3) I don’t know why, but Heroes 3 AI was good. Why future AI sucked and didn’t learn from the lessons of H3 and build on a good AI, I don’t understand.

4) Unit animations again demonstrate the lack of preparation and detail orientation. Titans have thrown thunderbolts since H2 when they first appeared. Even the H5 beam looked like a lightning bolt. Titan is associated with thunder and lightning, not laser beams and sci fi.

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Re: The Beta: Impressions

Postby loran16 » Aug 31 2015, 3:46

I've played 1-5, but skipped 6. So I am aware of Heroes 3, which is my favorite of the series (still have my CDs of H3 and AB, though i've lost my copy of SOD).

But yes you get my point pretty well (although I wouldn't say H3 was balanced between the factions - a blast to play tho!)

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Re: The Beta: Impressions

Postby Galaad » Aug 31 2015, 9:03

loran16 wrote:The Titan doesn't throw a thunderbolt, he fires a beam, which is super lazy.

Who knows, maybe new titans of Ashan are cyborgs of some sort. :D


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