For those of you who feel the Renegades are fine as they are

[okrane]

@GOW and everybody that thinks that story-wise Renegades should not be in Haven

They are alternates... that means they have taken an alternate path...

We don't have a story yet about other alternates so we cannot compare, but I find no discrepancy in this. Likewise like Orfinn once said, Demons and Devils should not be together in a same town... You might take the simple explanation and say: they are both evil and bla... well, evil creatures associate even harder than good ones, so that won't do...

and the story about the renegades happened back then, in HoF... who knows how the story goes, maybe their names and description will change showing their evolution, and why they allied with Haven.

Nevertheless you can look at it from another perspective: the player chooses what units to use, and how to train them. He can use a mixed army of creatures trained in the Holy Arts and others with a more darker background. Keep in mind that Haven has both Light and Dark and nothing stops the hero from using them both...

So I don't see the fuss about this thing... and still, they are just the descriptions and story from a lousy, and silly campaign... I am sure more talented map-makers will make better story lines in which the apparent discrepancy will disapear

[Ceres]

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/he ... ures.shtml

There you go They are generally dark and not that holy units

Thanks for the link!

Wow... They look powerful! Boros ftw! I hope these guys is as effective as they look. Coz I heard that the other faction's upgrades are great too.

@stefan.urlus

Thanks for removing my confusion!

[Jolly Joker]

How often will this have to be repeated? THEY ARE NO RENEGADES! They are the official, new, technically advanced, better-prepared-to-fight demons troops of the Holy Griffin Empire. The only thing that's "strange" here is the "Fallen Angel", in name as well as in ability, and as I said a couple of times before I wouldn't be all too surprised if some units were to change, be it in name, stats or ability; luckily enough the addon system has the advantage that it theoretically allows to play HoF campaigns with HoF "renegades" while ToE will be played with ToE renegades.

[okrane]

Well, the abilities I find interesting... they should not be changed, especially since we got used to them... maybe some stat changes here and there...

They can change the names for all I care... but they should be careful not to come up with some lame names like in the case of other races...

[Orfinn]

These red angelz are Fallen because they didnt follow the way of the normal haven fellas but sticked to the rest of the renegade lineup. Even angels have choices.. They and the other demon fighting outcasts could as well be fallen imo.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

How often will this have to be repeated? THEY ARE NO RENEGADES! They are the official, new, technically advanced, better-prepared-to-fight demons troops of the Holy Griffin Empire. The only thing that's "strange" here is the "Fallen Angel", in name as well as in ability, and as I said a couple of times before I wouldn't be all too surprised if some units were to change, be it in name, stats or ability; luckily enough the addon system has the advantage that it theoretically allows to play HoF campaigns with HoF "renegades" while ToE will be played with ToE renegades.

Until Nival stops calling them renegades.

They have forsaken the Light (Elrath) as their descriptions clearly say.

I understand that Nival may do some fancy footwork and change the storyline or whatever, but until they do they are in fact renegades according to Nival's own cannon and description. Nival calls them renegades and the fan made manual that Nival supplied the information for and that Ubisoft approved calls them renegades.

Zealot: Once Priests of the Light, fanaticism has driven the Zealots to adopt new colors

In other words, they are no longer priests of the Light(Elrath.) They have forsaken him.

Champions: Fanatics who have sworn personal oaths of loyalty to Saint Isabel.

They follow the false Isabel. They no longer have the lay on hands ability because they have forsaken the Light.

Fallen Angel: The whims of the gods are not for us to understand. Why these angels have fallen from grace is anybody's guess. In learning the cruel lessons of their fall from grace, they have also learnt how to drain the life from their enemies.

They are fallen. They are out of Elrath's grace.

Believable story's involving holy wars and Haven are out now unless Nival backtracks and changes names and descriptions of the units since both units are hirable from the same building unless Nival gives the mapmaker the ability to disable alternate cretures in a particular building.

If the stats and abilities are changed I can accept them as an alternate on "normal" maps that don't have a storyline that conflicts, even though certain cretures like the Fallen Angel just don't make sense in the Haven town.

Nival called them renegades. Nival made their descriptions. Don't get mad at those of us who say that because of the cannon Nival wrote and the abilities Nival gave them they don't fit in the Haven town.

[loran16]

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/he ... ures.shtml

There you go They are generally dark and not that holy units

Thanks for the link!

Wow... They look powerful! Boros ftw! I hope these guys is as effective as they look. Coz I heard that the other faction's upgrades are great too.

@stefan.urlus

Thanks for removing my confusion!

The Magic the Gathering color pie does not extend to HoMaM.

(alternatively, you can consider renegades the planar chaos version of the original upgrades.)

[Ceres]

The Magic the Gathering color pie does not extend to HoMaM.

(alternatively, you can consider renegades the planar chaos version of the original upgrades.)

*lol*

Well.. yeah. When I saw those pics, it just popped up in my mind. They somehow have those similarities...

[PhoenixReborn]

There are two flaws with this thread.

One is that very few people are saying the renegades are fine as they are, no one objects to tweaking them.

Two is that they are in fact being tweaked as is clear on the ubi forum.

Note that I'm talking about gameplay here not story. The story points are valid, but quite frankly I personally don't play for story.

[Omega_Destroyer]

I only do to the extent of the campaigns. After that, the Renegades could be skirt wearing... wait, I can't go that far. Anyways, after the campaigns it doesn't really bother me what the units ideology is.

[Jolly Joker]

Biara's reign is an interregnum only - or can anyone imagine that the ToE campaigns will not see Biara a head or two shorter and someone else becomes King or Queen, probably Duncan and Freyda in marriage union (no, I don't know the script, yet, just speculation on my part)?
Anyway, after that they will correct the glaring abberations, having alternative units, but back on track, so to speak. So I completely fail to see the problem here.

[PhoenixReborn]

The vampirism spell Nival plans to add in the TOTE expansion is game breakingly overpowered.

GOW

In general I'm agreeing with you on this point. I never really liked Vampire ability in any of the heroes game, nor resurrection and raise dead...just look at the motn raise dead strategy for necro.

Anyway I floated the point over at age of heroes and the best response was this

Vampirism will be a level 5 spell, and as such will not be particularly overpowered. That is, when meassured against the likes as Puppet Master ... In fact, Sorrow will be a much more powerfull spell, we can only pray that they will have the wisdom to split it into two separate spells (Nival Sorrow > H3 Sorrow + H3 Misfortune) or to offer no mass effect (poor solution).

[Omega_Destroyer]

(Nival Sorrow > H3 Sorrow + H3 Misfortune)

Something about Nival Sorrow just makes me smile.

[PhoenixReborn]

Just out of curiosity, those who dislike the renegade alternate etc...

when you are playing in hof on a multiplayer map as haven and a renegade unit offers to join you, say crossbowmen, do you reject them because it doesn't make sense?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Just out of curiosity, those who dislike the renegade alternate etc...

when you are playing in hof on a multiplayer map as haven and a renegade unit offers to join you, say crossbowmen, do you reject them because it doesn't make sense?

That is not the same as having Fallen Angels actually being recruited and trained side by side with Archangels in a holy town.

GOW

[okrane]

oh come on... we will rename them as SERAPHS and all trouble will be gone.... I can't believe you people are actually making this into a serious issue...

[Orfinn]

Yeah! I mean the renegades are just as good as the previous not taking campaign elements into account.

[ThunderTitan]

Yup, it's pretty much the same as Devils joining you from the Inferno when you're a Knight.

[Corribus]

Are we still arguing about this??

[ThunderTitan]

better then starting to give science lessons...