Counterspell

[okrane]

Why the hell this perk does not work against creature casters...
I had it with my wizard... and I thought I can use it against master druids... but it doesn't work...

[DaemianLucifer]

Same reason imps drain mana just from heroes:Its easier to implement

[Gaidal Cain]

I think it used to work against creatures. Since that meant you could "dispel" it with single caster stacks, that solution wasn't to good either.

[okrane]

then how can one beat 30 master druids with a wizard??? they guard let's say a mine you must have...
For me it was the sulphur mine... I attacked them in all ways possible... they ripped my army to shreads...

[Jolly Joker]

Try Gargoyles, Mark of the Wizard and a simple Destruction spell.

[okrane]

well... how many gargoiles?? they are not immune to earth, so they can still cast spikes, and shooting really hurts... I lost 40 of them,,,, did not have more...

[Jolly Joker]

Ah, so it's Druid Elders. Then you should take Steel Golems if you have already upgraded them. As many stacks as possible.

[Sir_Toejam]

the ai targets casters first, then archers. if you don't have djinn, try the following:

bring a decent sized stack of master gremlins(say, 30 or so). split that into two stacks of equal size.

bring a big stack of gargoyles (say at least 40) and split this into two stacks too. one stack should be about 50% larger than the other:

say around 25/15

bring a good sized stack of golems (around 20 should do).

OK, now move the gremlins towards the druids on the first turn (yeah, don't use them to shoot), they should absorb the first attack (and likely be wiped out).

wait with your stacks of gargs until the druids attack, then move them forward.

move your golems forward.

next turn, attack one of the druid stacks with the larger stack of gargoyles. they should take out a few of the druids and also be able to absorb the retalliation.

move the smaller stack in front of another druid stack (don't worry if there are 3 stacks, as the third stack will not cast stonespike on it's brethereren).

move the golems towards the druid stack with the weaker stack of gargs sitting next to it.

next turn, set the larger stack of gargs to defend, attack with the smaller stack.

attack the same druid stack with the golems. this should wipe out the druid stack, and leave another stack weakened.

you get the idea.

meanwhile, your wizard can do whatever; direct attack, cast buffs or direct damage spells.

also bring a healing tent.

[okrane]

and how many losses will I have... I think quite a few...
and I don't have golems since I used the resources to build something else.
I played on hard, build mage guild level 2 so I was left with only 9 sulphur... and I did not find any on the map... so I had to buy 1 to get mages.

the sulphur mine was defended by lots of elder druids(31 when I attacked)
the mercury one by lots of succubus mistresses...

map no man's land
in week 3 I had

Hero:
Jhora: primary skills: ~ 1 1 5 5
skills : Exp Sorcery, Arc Training, Counterspell
Adv Enlight, Intelligence
Basic Light, M of Abjuration
MotW

Spells:E Arrow, Slow, Haste, Mines, Ice bolt, Lightning, Wasps, Cleansing
Army: 160 M gremlins (found havez), 40 obsidian gargoiles, and some mages I did not buy...

So... how beat the succubi, how beat the druids? and the most important at what cost???

This thread is mostly to proove that with a wizard early on it's nearly impossible to creep w/o significant losses.... which means that he will have a really small army later on...

[DaemianLucifer]

Well you can always restart the map and hope to get something easier there.

[okrane]

Well I managed in the end to beat the map.... but that's not the point here...
I dont consider myself to be unlucky on this one

[tb5841]

If in this situation again, split the magi up as much as possible. The druids should target them first, so if you have 5 stacks of one mage for example, it will take the druids a while to kill them all. And magi do much more damage this way.

+ Next time get magic mirror if you can.

[DaemianLucifer]

Beating 31 druids with about a week of mages?Somehow I doubt that can be done.

[tb5841]

With expert sorcery, and Jhora about L7, she should get to cast spells much faster than the druids act (not sure how much of an effect her specialty has, can't seem to find it anywhere). She kills 3.6 druids a turn, using ice bolt at 5 spellpower.

If you had seven magi all in separate stacks, if Jhora moved twice as often as the druids did, and if the druids were all in one stack, then after the first round of combat - druid elders and magi have the same initiative - you will have killed about 6 druids with your magi, and another 7 with Jhora, and lost one mage.

After the second round, there will be 6 druids left, and 5 magi...

But I don't think Jhora's specialty is actually anywhere near that good, and if the druids are in two stacks it would be very different. I've assumed magi do 33 damage with magic fist, not sure how much they actually do... I quite want to try this battle now.

[Sir_Toejam]

not sure how much of an effect her specialty has, can't seem to find it anywhere)

it's in the CH manual:

.5% increase to initiative per level.

so to see a noticeable difference, Jhora would need to be about level 10.

compared to the dwarf skill of "quick mind" (25%), Jhora would have to be level 50!

(er, can you figure out that I think Jhora's special is a bit underpowered?)

personally, I think the special should be 10% base, +.5% per level.

that would be about right.

[okrane]

I think the dwarves special refers to the begining of the combat, i.e. at the begining the dwarf hero receives a bonus 25% so he can act faster but after that he casts like any other hero...
Jhora nevertheless has the increase throughout the whole battle...
this is just a supposition as I don't have HoF

With expert sorcery, and Jhora about L7, she should get to cast spells much faster than the druids act (not sure how much of an effect her specialty has, can't seem to find it anywhere). She kills 3.6 druids a turn, using ice bolt at 5 spellpower.

If you had seven magi all in separate stacks, if Jhora moved twice as often as the druids did, and if the druids were all in one stack, then after the first round of combat - druid elders and magi have the same initiative - you will have killed about 6 druids with your magi, and another 7 with Jhora, and lost one mage.

After the second round, there will be 6 druids left, and 5 magi...

But I don't think Jhora's specialty is actually anywhere near that good, and if the druids are in two stacks it would be very different. I've assumed magi do 33 damage with magic fist, not sure how much they actually do... I quite want to try this battle now.

actually there were 2 stacks of druids, and Jhora doest act that fast...
and I'm not sure you can place 7 stacks of magi w/o being affected by stone spikes

[DaemianLucifer]

and I'm not sure you can place 7 stacks of magi w/o being affected by stone spikes

If you have tactics you can place only 6 stacks without 2 being affected with one cast.

[okrane]

well... I already said what skills I had... additionally it is quite rare for a wizard to have tactics...

[Alamar]

The reason that you're having so much trouble is the entire design of the casting creatures is broken:

1. Their spells cause damage WILDLY out of proportion to their base attack damage.

2. There's nothing you can do to prevent them from casting. Basically if it's their turn you can expect a spell of some variety. [Can't be blocked, not effected by confusion, can't be easily counterspelled, can't be mana drained, etc.]

3. Because of non-linear damage they are way too dangerous in low to mid numbers that you see guarding mines.

If the above were fixed then they wouldn't present as much danger to attacking armies [at least no more than something like griffins, vampires, etc.]

[okrane]

well... yeah...
It would have been interesting if counterspell worked against caster creatures also... I mean it could have been made to work against creatures when there is no hero, and when figting an enemy hero to counter only his spells