AI in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 - Nival principles

[Mytical]

Original was in wrong thread, my appologies. Don't guess I could get a mod to remove this post altogether???

[Kashrlyyk]

Well every patch has had their 'super powerful' town. Maybe Academy should get it's moment in the sun. And look at it like this, if they do mistakenly overpower Academy it will be a lot shorter time to the next patch. After all for everything I have seen Ubi and co hate academy. At least that would mean 1.5 would be a lot sooner then later .

Wrong thread?

[Kilop]

yeah, i take the permission to copy paste it in the good one ...

[Sherpa]

I use save/load game only when i'm exiting / entering a game (fair play), so i think that this is STUPID... I hate linear game where i know that i will win... How many time i had to start a map from begining cos i lost scenario. I was angry, but angry on myself and my poor tactical play. This is a game and i realy need chalange. And i prefer to have strongest opponent in AI

(sorry on my bad english )

[Campaigner]

Things are not 3 times cheaper. It's 30% of the cost.

30% (33 rather) == 3 times cheaper.
If our "heroic" ai wants to build capitol that costs 10000 it pays 10000 * 0.33 = 3300 i.e. 1/3

Nope. Look, if the A.I had to pay 2 times the price, it's double. And 3 times, it's triple. So if a Crossbowman costs 100 gold he would pay 200 gold which is double price and 300 which is triple.

With this logic, if he were to pay 2 times less, he pays double in the other direction which would be 100 -100 = 0! And triple in the other direction is 100 - 200 which would mean he GAINS 100 gold!

So my point is that logic is flawed And I love to be right....

[MistWeaver]

Nope. Look, if the A.I had to pay 2 times the price, it's double. And 3 times, it's triple. So if a Crossbowman costs 100 gold he would pay 200 gold which is double price and 300 which is triple.

With this logic, if he were to pay 2 times less, he pays double in the other direction which would be 100 -100 = 0! And triple in the other direction is 100 - 200 which would mean he GAINS 100 gold!

So my point is that logic is flawed And I love to be right....

Not funny.

[Campaigner]

Wasn't meant to be funny. Was meant to set things straight.

[MistWeaver]

Wasn't meant to be funny. Was meant to set things straight.

Campaigner, price of object A that N times cheaper than possitive price value of object B - can not be negative.
Your mistake is that you dont understand "times less" term correctly. 3 times less than M does not mean: result = M - M - M That makes no sense. 3 times less than M is: result = M/3

[Gaidal Cain]

Campaigner actually has a correct idea of what "n times cheaper" would mean.

It doesn't mean his idea of what "pays x% of full price" means is right though

[MistWeaver]

I see.. Sorry then.
And just to close the subject:
How one should say that object has 67% price off, without using percentage ?

[DaemianLucifer]

Things are not 3 times cheaper. It's 30% of the cost.

30% (33 rather) == 3 times cheaper.
If our "heroic" ai wants to build capitol that costs 10000 it pays 10000 * 0.33 = 3300 i.e. 1/3

Nope. Look, if the A.I had to pay 2 times the price, it's double. And 3 times, it's triple. So if a Crossbowman costs 100 gold he would pay 200 gold which is double price and 300 which is triple.

With this logic, if he were to pay 2 times less, he pays double in the other direction which would be 100 -100 = 0! And triple in the other direction is 100 - 200 which would mean he GAINS 100 gold!

So my point is that logic is flawed And I love to be right....

Sadly...Im doing it again.Im pleased to say that you are wrong,because we are talking percentages here.If you pay 2 times less,you dont pay double in the opposite direction.50% of a price doesnt mean that your gold will increase,just that you will spend 50% less money.And 50% of 100 is certanly not 0.

[Mytical]

I see.. Sorry then.
And just to close the subject:
How one should say that object has 67% price off, without using percentage ?

It would be 2/3 off rounded up .

[Gaidal Cain]

Sadly...Im doing it again.Im pleased to say that you are wrong,because we are talking percentages here.If you pay 2 times less,you dont pay double in the opposite direction.50% of a price doesnt mean that your gold will increase,just that you will spend 50% less money.And 50% of 100 is certanly not 0.

2 times of =/= 50% off, if one wishes to be a nazi about it. Best say "half the price off", if that's what you mean.

[BoardGuest808888]

For God's sake it's handicapped in 5 on Normal as well: The computer starts with one third of what the player starts (exactly the starting amount for a human on heroic level). The AI casts at most level 3 spells and targets melee units, flyers and shooter/casters IN THAT ORDER. The AI builds every SECOND day only.
Incidentally, in H 2 the AI players start with more money and resources than the humans even on normal difficulty.

If I remember correctly this wasn't always the case. I think I saw sometimes AI casted spells other than level 1,2,3. It also completed building a town sooner or at same times as I did.

I think problems might be AI being too dependent on resource superiority and somehow Nival thought that would solve about all the problems for AI.

I remember I'd played a game when there's a week of disease in 2nd week. AI haven't made any progress at all even after a month. I wonder, if there's a problem that can't be solved by just resource, AI would simply fallen badly.

[Alamar]

I think problems might be AI being too dependent on resource superiority and somehow Nival thought that would solve about all the problems for AI.

I think what happenned is that Nival was unable to build a sufficiently competitive AI so what they had to do was basically give the AI unlimited buy & build power. On top of that there are the other bonuses that the AI gets because even this apparrently was not enough.

[BoardGuest808888]

Oo, I never know that ? So Nival gave AI more advantages other than superior buying/spending power ? What's that ?

Whatever it was, it seems to be much dependent on quantity alone. Rather sad, I think.

[PhoenixReborn]

I was playing the expansion and I noticed something strange.

When I play in multiplayer but make all the other player's computer controlled the a.i. acts normal, as it usually does, it was being agressive and using runes properly and exploding it's own horned overseers etc.

But when I put the game into single player mode and did a multiplayer map the a.i. acted very different. It was "sulking", not being agressive, and this, the big tip-off that something was wrong, did not use a single rune against me.

I wonder how many people that are describing problems not all of us are seeing are playing single player mode?