Slyvan map #2---absolutely impossible on hard setting

kbr · Unread postby **kbr** » 22 Oct 2006, 22:44

Gotta say i just have NO idea how to beat this level. I can take the entire inital island (minus the pit lords) within a week losing no armies. I also send out a scout on a boat in first week. If i take findan to either other city after that, the enemy just attacks as SOON as im too many turns away to protect my initial city. Ive captured the NE city within the 2nd week pretty easily, but then the enemy is allready emerging from the depths with an army that can easily crush BOTH my armies.... ive tried this scenario from the start probably 15 times and have no clue what im doing wrong. Seems too hard, just want it over.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 22 Oct 2006, 23:53

I am not sure about 1.3,but in 1.0 it was quite easy for me.They key is logistics and rush,with a few chaining heroes that can get your army across the water to repel an attack and bring it back to findan the very same day.

kbr · Unread postby **kbr** » 23 Oct 2006, 00:02

i must be missing something. the moment i take the enemy city a hero emerges from underground with an army that is 4x bigger than all my armies combined, this is not even before week 2 ends!!!???? if i just wait in my home city he either comes or does not, but his armies become even more impossible the longer i wait. Chaining armies across 2 shores and a 3 day boatride isnt really feasible, esp as i said this is WEEK 2. i cant even comprehend that others arent facing the same EXTREME/RIDICULOUS difficulty that i am...

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 23 Oct 2006, 00:43

What version do you have?And what build for findan.Chaining your armies is feasable,trust me.And maybe its just a bug for that time.Did you try restarting the map?Maybe you get lucky.

maltz · Unread postby **maltz** » 23 Oct 2006, 05:39

Try the updated walkthrough (there is an extra section based on heroic 1.3).
https://www.celestialheavens.com/583

I have never seen the weird underground army you mentioned (my experience is limited to 1.1-1.3 heroic). Perhaps it is just a bad feature in hard? Maybe you will find heroic easier than hard?

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 23 Oct 2006, 06:53

I'd like to add, in support of Maltz's theory, that the second Dungeon campaign actually was harder on hard than heroic for me, due to shifted resources (1.2). Still couldn't beat it without exploiting some obvious AI flaws though.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 23 Oct 2006, 07:13

maltz wrote:Try the updated walkthrough (there is an extra section based on heroic 1.3).
https://www.celestialheavens.com/583

I have never seen the weird underground army you mentioned (my experience is limited to 1.1-1.3 heroic). Perhaps it is just a bad feature in hard? Maybe you will find heroic easier than hard?

I did see it,but it was just one of the armies the AI sent to explore the underground.

mr.dna · Unread postby **mr.dna** » 23 Oct 2006, 08:15

I've stopped playing the campaign at the same map, and played custom maps instead. It's just plain stupid.

okrane · Unread postby **okrane** » 23 Oct 2006, 09:04

IMO the campaigns are the best example of how poorly and sloopy this game was developped. No balance whatsoever, patches that introduce bugs and who drastically change the gameplay of the campaigns...

It's like... all these types of threads(Mission x of the campaign y is impossible to accomplish) proove just how much interest and work has been invested in this game... I've seen Custom Maps better made than this....

So I'd totaly agree with the post above... if you want a good game... try some of the custom maps.... because the devs have definately no idea what professionalism means...

maltz · Unread postby **maltz** » 23 Oct 2006, 15:13

Dunno about the custom maps (never tried) but the campaign has its charm (about skill planning and some good challenge). But yeah there are too many bugs, which seriously damage the playability... like 30% of the missions are bugged!

But based on my experiences on heroic (1.1-1.3) I have NEVER encountered missions so hard that I cannot beat after changing my strategy. Being defeated by AI does not count a bug, really.

What the original poster suggests is that there is an army emerged from underground that makes all the difference. I've never seen it though.

... the moment i take the enemy city a hero emerges from underground with an army that is 4x bigger than all my armies combined, this is not even before week 2 ends!

If you now look at the walkthrough map (I took it with OpenCircleFog on Day 1, patch 1.1 heroic):

https://www.celestialheavens.com/583

You can see that the AI only starts with 2 heroes, close to their own castles. The NE island is locked so nothing escapes. The SW island hero would have to travel to the NW island in order to go underground, and march a long way. The only possible hero to come out from underground would be the hero from the central town. But based on what I learned, there is absolutely NO red hero activity of the central town (except town building) UNTIL Findan steps on the SW island.

So it is hard to believe that there can be a red hero emerging from underground before week 2 ends. Unless there is something different in the Hard level.

PhoenixReborn · Unread postby **PhoenixReborn** » 23 Oct 2006, 16:09

I'm stuck on this mission myself. The wood costs make it difficult for me. I play on normal but even skipping war dancers building a boat hurts.

I tried rushing the NE island. I got crushed. I waited and built up stronger went to attack it, summoned in all my troops and still got crushed. The enemy armies are always much bigger.

I don't usually go to walkthroughs but I might now just to see what Maltz is talking about.

Once in awhile If I've been exploring the underground area I see enemy red heroes in the underground, but not early on like in week 2.

kbr · Unread postby **kbr** » 24 Oct 2006, 02:12

thanks for the responses, but one interesting thing...
-- the NE island definitely isnt locked, ive watched 2 red heroes walk to the shore and launch boats in the same turn (maybe they are summoning them?)

Sir_Toejam · Unread postby **Sir_Toejam** » 24 Oct 2006, 08:02

I'm stuck on this mission myself. The wood costs make it difficult for me. I play on normal but even skipping war dancers building a boat hurts.

you might want to test the mod I made that shifts resources around a bit for each faction.

preserve needs less wood with that.

It's in this thread in the modcrafting guild:

viewtopic.php?t=4036

It seems pretty well balanced to me (I've been testing it for a couple of weeks now), but haven't got much feedback from anybody else yet.

see what you think.

mr.dna · Unread postby **mr.dna** » 24 Oct 2006, 09:40

kbr wrote:thanks for the responses, but one interesting thing...
-- the NE island definitely isnt locked, ive watched 2 red heroes walk to the shore and launch boats in the same turn (maybe they are summoning them?)

yes, and they also summon your boat if you don't have hero in it. I went ashore to take the unicorns on the island next to the town, only to find my boat summoned by the enemy next turn.......

Besides that I can't see how it would be possible to defend your home town from the enemy hero emerging from the underground, while trying to take the enemy towns. It just blazes through the pit lords, and only be using my main hero could I defend my castle.... still with heavy loses.

Rainalkar · Unread postby **Rainalkar** » 24 Oct 2006, 11:24

I have also never seen the underground army (played on heroic). I took the NE town week one (went on boat day 1), sailed all around to the SW island, took that too, sailed to the middle continent, broke the spectrals and took the N island. I think it took me a bit more than three-four weeks or so. Rushing is sometimes a good solutions to your problems.

The other option is to break to Pit Lords and take the N town first, however I can see no way to brake them week 1, and losing a week was not an option for me.

Humakt · Unread postby **Humakt** » 24 Oct 2006, 17:17

I was attacked from underground by sizable force, it may have been just recruited hero from middle town, where there are underground gates (and IMO it is best to go through underground and conquer the middle town first). Has been 3 months I've played this map though.

kbr · Unread postby **kbr** » 25 Oct 2006, 19:35

i took the advice from the walkthrough and took the NE castle by boat at the end of week one (actually day 1 of week 2--i had findan take the sawmill and mine closest to the starting city on day one)---Makes it MUCH more doable, and there has been no massive force coming from underground. They did send a large army to the NE city but it was a close fight by that time and i easily retook it with Findan 2 days later...

thanks for the assistance, should be able to finish the map now, have 3/4 cities captured.

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Slyvan map #2---absolutely impossible on hard setting

Slyvan map #2---absolutely impossible on hard setting

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