I am (finally) getting started with Heroes V

[Mytical]

I honestly don't know if which I would classify them as. I do like that I can (with tactics) place them into a position that they can do some major damage and then return to the safety of the stronger units all without taking any damage. Enemy has ranged units, run your upgraded furies up pound on them, then retreat unharmed. Same with those casters or other nasty creatures. True this means more damage from ranged and they are often picked on by ranged, but with tactics (a 'must have' in my book) your other units will be in their face before they can do any serious damage to the furies. Especially with Teleport Assult (another must have). Casting haste, bless, and/or endurence on them just make them nastier. Now sure most of the time you wont have deflect missle or Arcane Armor, or even phantom forces, but if you do it is even better. (One of my strongest Dungeon heroes had Expert Summons and Expert Destruction, nasty combo). The key with furies is, if the ranged/caster units of the enemy can not be nullified quickly, leave the furies out of the battle. Sure it is a bit harder to do without them, but they do die easy and are targeted often. If nothing else put your less useful minotaurs in their place.

Ok I realize that Dungeon is not your style, so feel free to ignore the following.

Assassins - perhaps the weakest and/or strongest 1st tier unit. Let me explain. Against undead, mechanical, or elemental creatures they are perhaps the weakest. Against all others they are perhaps the most deadly. Name me another tier 1 creature that can do 1 pt damage per creature ON top of their ranged or melee damage. Creature for creature they are the most potent against 'living' enemies of any teir one.

Blood Furies - Their no retal basically means they get two attacks to most other teir 2's 1. Again pretty potent if you ask me.

Upgrade these 2 as quick as possible, and build your mage guilds and you will find that they are a formidible army. In early game if you avoid any undead (except for maybe skeletons (non-archer)) when fighting ranged/casters have tactics (and hopefully some minos) so you can help prevent a lot of damage they might do otherwise, you will be fine.

[Banedon]

Fine,play a duel against a warlock and youll see that furries are a killer.And I dont mean an AI warlock.

Two things:

1. What's the big difference, AI or human? In the battle itself the Blood Furies will be attacking and dealing damage. It doesn't take games against a Haven player before realizing that Paladins are killers. I've used Blood Furies and gone against them, and nothing can change the fact that they are finesse.
2. I have played games against a Warlock that wasn't controlled by the AI. I've not seen anything overly impressive.

Your paladins wont get to act if you let them wait.Besides,no matter how much you wait,paladins are always going to be alone in enemys camp.Whos going to support them?Squires?Griffins?Peasants?Only angels have enough speed and power to go in quick melee with paladins,but theyll be bussy as well when they do.

It seems to me you don't know how to exploit the Paladin's speed (odd, since you claim to use Blood Furies so well). You're supposed to aim full tilt at the deadliest creature, hit it, suffer the retaliation and then charge the next deadliest creature available. You get two hits, then you'll have to take the pain.

And I have no idea what you mean by no one's going to support them. The Archangels would. Imperial Griffins ought to be present as well; chances are they'll be close enough after their initial battle dive. You seem to be using Paladins as 'first turn must charge over' creatures. No wonder they're dying.

Only one castle is being attacked at a time(at least in 1.0 it was like that),so you can prance between them(with expert logistics at least).And you have to go into an attack at some point.Doing it sooner is better than later.

You cannot travel from one castle to the next in one turn with Expert Logistics (Lethos couldn't). You can't go prancing around when a level 22 Warlock's just taken one of your castles and your army's in no shape to confront him in open combat.

Mytical - sure, Blood Furies are potent. I've never said the otherwise. I emphasize though that they are finesse, not out-and-out killers.

[DaemianLucifer]

It seems to me you don't know how to exploit the Paladin's speed (odd, since you claim to use Blood Furies so well). You're supposed to aim full tilt at the deadliest creature, hit it, suffer the retaliation and then charge the next deadliest creature available. You get two hits, then you'll have to take the pain.

Three with resurrection actually.But thats the same number of hits youll make with furries.I never said my paladins die quick,I said they die as quick as furries.

And I have no idea what you mean by no one's going to support them. The Archangels would. Imperial Griffins ought to be present as well; chances are they'll be close enough after their initial battle dive. You seem to be using Paladins as 'first turn must charge over' creatures. No wonder they're dying.

Id BD griffins again instead of shoving them to fight,thats why I dont count them as a support.

You cannot travel from one castle to the next in one turn with Expert Logistics (Lethos couldn't). You can't go prancing around when a level 22 Warlock's just taken one of your castles and your army's in no shape to confront him in open combat.

True,its two days.I remebered.But consider that if you scout a bit in front of both portals,thats quite enough to put shadya in the necessary town if she waits in the middle.First few attacks,however,should be reppeled combining aaeglr and shadya,one defending one town,other defending another,while slowly flagging the mines.You need an extra hero or two to be able to chain all the creatures,but its doable.

Mytical - sure, Blood Furies are potent. I've never said the otherwise. I emphasize though that they are finesse, not out-and-out killers.

So,dancing with paladins makes the killers,but dancing with furries makes them finesse? And dont pull hitpoints here,because paladins are level 6.Compared to other level 6s they have the second lowest hp,while furries have the third highest compared to the 2nd levels.True,furries have the third lowest defense and paladins the third highest,but furries have the highest attack,and paladins the third highest.

[Banedon]

I never said my paladins die quick,I said they die as quick as furries.

If you're losing Paladins - a unit with many times the HP and defense of the Blood Fury - as fast as the Blood Furies, there's something really, really wrong with your play. I can't help but wonder why you haven't realized this.

Id BD griffins again instead of shoving them to fight,thats why I dont count them as a support.

By the third round you'll need the immediate attacks - especially if your Paladins are right in their face. Surely you don't value Imperial Griffins more than Paladins!

True,its two days.I remebered.But consider that if you scout a bit in front of both portals,thats quite enough to put shadya in the necessary town if she waits in the middle.First few attacks,however,should be reppeled combining aaeglr and shadya,one defending one town,other defending another,while slowly flagging the mines.You need an extra hero or two to be able to chain all the creatures,but its doable.

Where do you get the creatures to do so? I defended my capital multiple times - with multiple reloads as well - and survived many times with maybe one Grim Raider. That certainly isn't enough to defend the next castle. And, you can't reach the critical mines (Wood and Ore) and return in a day, and you can't really get all the gold necessary to scout and chain.

Like I said, try playing the mission again.

So,dancing with paladins makes the killers,but dancing with furries makes them finesse? And dont pull hitpoints here,because paladins are level 6.Compared to other level 6s they have the second lowest hp,while furries have the third highest compared to the 2nd levels.True,furries have the third lowest defense and paladins the third highest,but furries have the highest attack,and paladins the third highest.

I don't dance with Paladins? It's just controlled use. Blood Furies however will have to dance. You put them in range of hitting; I advance my creatures a little. You have to back off, losing a turn (though with high initiative, probably still getting some hits). Paladins don't. The dancing makes Blood Furies finesse.

[Mytical]

I don't know, others suggested strategies and tried to help me with a few towns and it just didn't help. Sometimes a town just does not suit you. So even though we see things one way, and she sees them another is a moot point. The town may just not be her thing. Right now I have tied dwarves with sylvan for fun playing, and my poor Academy is dead last (and by looks of it will stay that way) simply because the current version of it doesn't suit me. All I can say is play what you like, try different things however, and maybe you will come up with that magic combo that works for you .

[Gaidal Cain]

Raelag went through the first mission without Shadya. He'll obviously have the higher stats.

IIRC, there isn't any permanent stat-boosters on map 1 (apart from XP, but that's no problem). The difference will lie solely in skill and ability choice. I managed to keep the castles through those first attacks (the AI will attack you once with each Dungeon hero it has with great stats, and then leave you alone. Once you realize this, the map will be much easier). Having taken both castles by day 3 (or was it 4 days it took to reach castle 2?) helped as well (and there Shadya's particular skills were crucial).

[DaemianLucifer]

If you're losing Paladins - a unit with many times the HP and defense of the Blood Fury - as fast as the Blood Furies, there's something really, really wrong with your play. I can't help but wonder why you haven't realized this.

Its all in the reach actually.Paladins rush in,hit twice,then get ganged by melee units.Angels resurrect them and they get one other hit before they get ganged and killed again.Furries get two hits and only the ranged units can reach them,and if you incapacitate those,you get another hit before they furries face melee units.Thus the same rate of dying.

Personally though,I didnt loose either of them when I played,so this is just based on what would happen if I fought someone with merrit.

By the third round you'll need the immediate attacks - especially if your Paladins are right in their face. Surely you don't value Imperial Griffins more than Paladins!

Depends.Usually though,my griffins land in an akward spot,thus they die,and the remaining few can be used either as ranged blockers or as retal stealers.

Where do you get the creatures to do so? I defended my capital multiple times - with multiple reloads as well - and survived many times with maybe one Grim Raider. That certainly isn't enough to defend the next castle. And, you can't reach the critical mines (Wood and Ore) and return in a day, and you can't really get all the gold necessary to scout and chain.

Like I said, try playing the mission again.

You should try something before saying its impossible,not the other way round.Besides,the rate of attacks doesnt depend on the number of towns you have,but the gold you get does.Thats where the extra cash for that third hero comes.As for surviving with the raider...Hmm,I managed to survive with just furries.Maybe you really shouldve used shadya in the defense,not aaeglr.

I don't dance with Paladins? It's just controlled use. Blood Furies however will have to dance. You put them in range of hitting; I advance my creatures a little. You have to back off, losing a turn (though with high initiative, probably still getting some hits). Paladins don't. The dancing makes Blood Furies finesse.

Why would you move them back?What are your minos and hydras doing if you have to move furries back when melee units come close?

[winterfate]

How long HAS this Blood Fury discussion gone on ?

Blood Furies are killers, no doubt about that. Sure they're weak, and they draw enemy fire (but if you were fighting against a Dungeon player i assume you would do the same thing ), but they hurt...a LOT. As for Paladins, they are resilient, but they need cover fire (or else they WILL die). In the end, it's a matter of strategy.

[DaemianLucifer]

How long HAS this Blood Fury discussion gone on ?

Quite common for discussions with Banedon.Check this one from the old table,for example.I dont mind personally.I like long debates

In the end, it's a matter of strategy.

Well it is a strategy game,after all.

[Mytical]

I think this discussion began back in 31 B.C. or something like that (or it seems that way hehe). Again I personally don't know if I would call them killer, finesse or something else. While they do pack a heck of a punch for their tier, and are very useful they remind me too much of sprites. Sprites can be useful, but I can not think of them as killer (or any tier 1 creature for that matter). They die rather quickly.

Lets look at the similarities here. Sprites are most useful (especially vs undead) hitting and running. Pretty much same with furies.

Both get no retal (well furies only on upgrade but you get the idea).

Both are really fast.

Both have low hp. Though furies do have a few more then sprites.

Both are targeted by AI with an insane passion.

Now like I said I can not classify sprites as killer. And for me finesse is an important part of their strategy but I would not classify them wholy as finesse either.

However, that being said per TIER both sprites and furies are killers. Meaning vs creatures of their own tier. The only creatures one on one that may give sprites a run for their money is dungeon (poison). One of the few tier two that can give furies a run for their money is archers. Getting two attacks for your enemies one is always good, the only thing that breaks the kitties of academy is the fact that their hero does not help them much at all (att/def wise). Again I am talking one on one. Yes necro's skelies can rip your sprites apart, but that is usually because they outnumber them by no less then 2 to 1 (and get raised often). Were talking pure creatures and one on one, not taking heroes into consideration. So since you are pretty much getting 2 attacks to your enemies 1 they have to have about double your hp to make a difference. Not bad.

So in some ways they are 'killers' in others 'finesse' and maybe something else thrown into the mix altogether.

[DaemianLucifer]

Sprites can be useful, but I can not think of them as killer (or any tier 1 creature for that matter).

What about skel archers?

So in some ways they are 'killers' in others 'finesse' and maybe something else thrown into the mix altogether.

You mean long legs and high heels?

[Mytical]

Sorry creature for creature (meaning no hordes and hordes because of being raised) they are not killer. Sure, they are decent, but in a fight between say 30 skel archers and 30 furies with no heroes calculated in, the sprites would emerge the winners.

[DaemianLucifer]

Sorry creature for creature (meaning no hordes and hordes because of being raised) they are not killer. Sure, they are decent, but in a fight between say 30 skel archers and 30 furies with no heroes calculated in, the sprites would emerge the winners.

Yes,while the skelies would fight the furries,the sprites would take all the treasure But you didnt calculate the growth and the price here.

[Banedon]

IIRC, there isn't any permanent stat-boosters on map 1 (apart from XP, but that's no problem).

I'm sure there is at least one Arena in the first map. Can't remember if there are others.

Its all in the reach actually.Paladins rush in,hit twice,then get ganged by melee units.Angels resurrect them and they get one other hit before they get ganged and killed again.Furries get two hits and only the ranged units can reach them,and if you incapacitate those,you get another hit before they furries face melee units.Thus the same rate of dying.

Truth be told, I enjoy long debates, but only if the other side is reasonable. You're not being reasonable, like Nucleon was. Think carefully: why are the Furies not targetted? Do you really think their hit-and-return special makes them invulneable? Do you think your opponent cannot commit his fast creatures to hunting them down? If you answer that Furies aren't targetted because they aren't so much a presence in the final battle, then you've also given a perfect reason why tanks like Plague Zombies stay alive for long. Does that make Plague Zombies a superior unit? I assure you that if I start the battle with the express aim of 'kill the Blood Furies' in mind, all the dancing and evasion and defensive maneveurs will not keep them alive.

Let's get four things clear:

1. If I want to kill the Blood Furies with any race, I can.
2. If I do not kill the Blood Furies, it is because I view you other stacks as more dangerous.
3. The fact that the Blood Furies stay alive lends weight to the argument that they are not true killers.
4. The fact that the Paladins die fast does not mean they are not killers.

Personally though,I didnt loose either of them when I played,so this is just based on what would happen if I fought someone with merrit.

If you lose no Paladins in an end fight with 'someone with merrit', I'll simply say that someone has no merit. The Blood Furies have a slim chance of staying unscathed if you annihilate your opponent in a one-sided battle - no more.

Depends.Usually though,my griffins land in an akward spot,thus they die,and the remaining few can be used either as ranged blockers or as retal stealers.

So...your 'opponent with merrit' prefers to target the Imperial Griffins instead of the Paladins. What kind of 'opponent with merrit' is that?

You should try something before saying its impossible,not the other way round.Besides,the rate of attacks doesnt depend on the number of towns you have,but the gold you get does.Thats where the extra cash for that third hero comes.As for surviving with the raider...Hmm,I managed to survive with just furries.Maybe you really shouldve used shadya in the defense,not aaeglr.

I finished the map three days ago and am hence much more likely to know it well. When was your last try?

@Gold - no resources means you can't buy any dwellings, so no creatures too.
@Furies - do you think having an extra 10 Blood Furies will change the result of a siege? If you say yes, then I have nothing more to say.

Why would you move them back?What are your minos and hydras doing if you have to move furries back when melee units come close?

Looking at the far-off creature and thinking 'I wish I could move a bit further on the battlefield'?

How long HAS this Blood Fury discussion gone on ?

Sigh...I gave DaemianLucifer a lot of opportunities...hints to stop this. He didn't approve. The way I see it, it can go on forever. I'll probably get more and more frustrated though, and my language may suffer for it. I'm sorry it has to happen. If you want to end this, I'm all for it, and we'll both hold on to our opinions.

[DaemianLucifer]

Think carefully: why are the Furies not targetted? Do you really think their hit-and-return special makes them invulneable? Do you think your opponent cannot commit his fast creatures to hunting them down? If you answer that Furies aren't targetted because they aren't so much a presence in the final battle, then you've also given a perfect reason why tanks like Plague Zombies stay alive for long. Does that make Plague Zombies a superior unit? I assure you that if I start the battle with the express aim of 'kill the Blood Furies' in mind, all the dancing and evasion and defensive maneveurs will not keep them alive.

The furries cannot be targeted because I use all that I have to destroy its fast melee and ranged units first.Furthermore,in the campaign in question,using shadya as a main defender,and being behind castle walls makes the ranged units even more less effective,thus even less furries will be lost.

3. The fact that the Blood Furies stay alive lends weight to the argument that they are not true killers.
4. The fact that the Paladins die fast does not mean they are not killers.

Ok,now you are just not making any sense.Previously you said that furries arent killers because they die fast,now you are saying that the fact that paladins die fast does not mean they arent killers? And furries staying alive lends weight to them not being killers?

If you lose no Paladins in an end fight with 'someone with merrit', I'll simply say that someone has no merit. The Blood Furies have a slim chance of staying unscathed if you annihilate your opponent in a one-sided battle - no more.

So...your 'opponent with merrit' prefers to target the Imperial Griffins instead of the Paladins. What kind of 'opponent with merrit' is that?

Did I mention I actually fought an opponent with merrit?No,just the AI.My argument was based on how Id fight myself.Id kill both the furries and the paladins first.Furthermore,I never said that even AI preffers to target imperial griffins over paladins.But,considering the layout,80% of the time those two end on the opposite sides of the field,mostly because thats how ranged units were split.Those not all of the enemy units can reach both.

I finished the map three days ago and am hence much more likely to know it well. When was your last try?

You finished it one way so you know the other way wont work just because you did it recently?

@Gold - no resources means you can't buy any dwellings, so no creatures too.

So?Who said you wont have any resources?There are mines all over the island.All mines.One hero defends the towns,other flags mines,and one(two if you manage to have a bit of extra cash,but thats doubtfull)transports troop to the one needing most at the moment.The game has chaining for a reason.

@Furies - do you think having an extra 10 Blood Furies will change the result of a siege? If you say yes, then I have nothing more to say.

10 furries over a single raider...?Do I really have to answer that?Besides,in the first few fights I lost only minotaurs.

Looking at the far-off creature and thinking 'I wish I could move a bit further on the battlefield'?

Yet you tell me about not utilizing my creature to the fullest?

Sigh...I gave DaemianLucifer a lot of opportunities...hints to stop this. He didn't approve. The way I see it, it can go on forever. I'll probably get more and more frustrated though, and my language may suffer for it. I'm sorry it has to happen. If you want to end this, I'm all for it, and we'll both hold on to our opinions.

Why would I aprove?If you want to end it,fine,say you dont agree with me and stop replying to my comments.I wont because Im not bothered at all.I find it rather amusing seeing your blood boil over nothing important

[Banedon]

If my blood boils over then it is none of my fault.

The furries cannot be targeted because I use all that I have to destroy its fast melee and ranged units first.Furthermore,in the campaign in question,using shadya as a main defender,and being behind castle walls makes the ranged units even more less effective,thus even less furries will be lost.

LOL! What makes you think Dungeon can eliminate all the opponent's fast melee and ranged units before they get to move? Do you really believe you can preserve the Blood Furies if your opponent wants to take them down? If you do I challenge you to a direct fight; you can give me any race. We'll have four week's worth of creatures. I bet you anything I can kill all your Blood Furies, even if I lose all my creatures in the meantime.

And brave words saying it's defending a castle. I won't attack you in a castle. If you're referring to The Cultists, I'll simply point out you were against the AI, and if it were I controlling the AI I'd wipe you to kingdom come.

Ok,now you are just not making any sense.Previously you said that furries arent killers because they die fast,now you are saying that the fact that paladins die fast does not mean they arent killers? And furries staying alive lends weight to them not being killers?

Blood Furies are not killers early-game because they are fragile.
Blood Furies are not killers late-game because by that time their damage is too low.
Blood Furies staying alive in final battles indicate that they are simply NOT DANGEROUS, and therefore not killers.
Paladins dying fast in final battles indicate that they are killers of tremendous importance, enough to focus the entire army's might on them.

Did I mention I actually fought an opponent with merrit?No,just the AI.My argument was based on how Id fight myself.Id kill both the furries and the paladins first.Furthermore,I never said that even AI preffers to target imperial griffins over paladins.But,considering the layout,80% of the time those two end on the opposite sides of the field,mostly because thats how ranged units were split.Those not all of the enemy units can reach both.

You cannot convince me of anything if you're basing your arguments off a final battle against the AI. You may never have said that the AI targets the Imperial Griffins, but by emphasizing that they get targetted after their Battle Dive, you definitely, indirectly, implied it. No idea what your lasts two sentences mean.

You finished it one way so you know the other way wont work just because you did it recently?

Yes. I know it doesn't work because I've been there and tried it and experienced the full fury of my opponents. I know your plan is not really feasible. You can sulk all you want; it doesn't change the past.

So?Who said you wont have any resources?There are mines all over the island.All mines.One hero defends the towns,other flags mines,and one(two if you manage to have a bit of extra cash,but thats doubtfull)transports troop to the one needing most at the moment.The game has chaining for a reason.

Aye. Lots of mines all over but no one to take them with. You want to send Raelag? Go on, he'll get caught outside the castle and killed by the AI. Or Shadya? Same thing happens; the AI knows where all your heroes are. If you could chain Shadya / Raelag back to the castle, by all means. But you can't. You do not appear to realize that it takes THREE turns to send out Raelag / Shadya, take the mines and then get back to the castle - at least the Sawmill and Ore Pits, which are what you really need at that point.

10 furries over a single raider...?Do I really have to answer that?Besides,in the first few fights I lost only minotaurs.

You didn't play v1.4. Losing only Minotaurs! Either you are csarmi reborn, you are plain exaggerating, your memory has failed you or you played a different map. You misunderstood what I meant as well. If you defend one castle with 10 Blood Furies still alive, you cannot expect those 10 Blood Furies to allow you to defend the other. They'll get slaughtered, whatever hero you left inside would die as well and you fail the mission.

Yet you tell me about not utilizing my creature to the fullest?

What can you do? I align my Cerberi (it's early game) to be opposite your Blood Furies. What're you going to do, expect your Minotaurs and Hydras to magically teleport within range to attack the Cerberi? Impossible. Attack them with the Blood Fury? There goes your proud record of not losing Blood Furies. Move your Minotaurs and Hydras to block the path? Sure, let my Cerberi hit more targets.

[DaemianLucifer]

If my blood boils over then it is none of my fault.

Sure,youre not responsible for your actions

LOL! What makes you think Dungeon can eliminate all the opponent's fast melee and ranged units before they get to move? Do you really believe you can preserve the Blood Furies if your opponent wants to take them down? If you do I challenge you to a direct fight; you can give me any race. We'll have four week's worth of creatures. I bet you anything I can kill all your Blood Furies, even if I lose all my creatures in the meantime.

Of course you can kill them if you want to.But thats just it,you wont kill them before they do massive damage.And if you really loose your whole army just so you can kill the furries,what have you acomplished with that?I never said they are so incredably valuable,but they do the job.

As for the walkers and ranged units,thats what my spells are for.Later,thats what my BDs and my spells are for.With TA,thats what my hydras are for.

And brave words saying it's defending a castle. I won't attack you in a castle. If you're referring to The Cultists, I'll simply point out you were against the AI, and if it were I controlling the AI I'd wipe you to kingdom come.

I never said youd atack me in the castle,I said how you couldve repelled the sieges much easier in the cultist map,since that was what brought this whole discussion in the first place.

Blood Furies are not killers early-game because they are fragile.
Blood Furies are not killers late-game because by that time their damage is too low.
Blood Furies staying alive in final battles indicate that they are simply NOT DANGEROUS, and therefore not killers.
Paladins dying fast in final battles indicate that they are killers of tremendous importance, enough to focus the entire army's might on them.

And who said blood furries dont die in the last battle?Not me.I said they dont die before they do enough damage.Furthermore,I said they last just as long as paladines in the last battle,which makes them an equal threat.And they are fragile in the early game? Well then,you just dont know how to utilize their full potential.

You cannot convince me of anything if you're basing your arguments off a final battle against the AI. You may never have said that the AI targets the Imperial Griffins, but by emphasizing that they get targetted after their Battle Dive, you definitely, indirectly, implied it. No idea what your lasts two sentences mean.

Im not basing my oppinions on how the AI reacts,but on how I react.

As for my last two sentences:usually my griffins land either in the middle,or near one of the ends,depending on who I attacked.80% of the time,thats the opposite end of where the paladins are attacking,thus a few of the enmys units will target the griffins because they cannot reach the paladins.This is good though,because it means paladins can survive a turn longer.

Yes. I know it doesn't work because I've been there and tried it and experienced the full fury of my opponents. I know your plan is not really feasible. You can sulk all you want; it doesn't change the past.

Yes,you know it doesnt work because you failed,yet not just me,but GC as well told you that it does work.So just because you didnt have the best skill set you think you know better than the two of us?Not to mention that Infiltrator suggests the same strategy in the walkthrough.But I guess you know better than him as well.

Aye. Lots of mines all over but no one to take them with. You want to send Raelag? Go on, he'll get caught outside the castle and killed by the AI. Or Shadya? Same thing happens; the AI knows where all your heroes are. If you could chain Shadya / Raelag back to the castle, by all means. But you can't. You do not appear to realize that it takes THREE turns to send out Raelag / Shadya, take the mines and then get back to the castle - at least the Sawmill and Ore Pits, which are what you really need at that point.

Yes you can.And they wont get caugh outside of town if both have expert logistics and you see when your enemy is coming.But I see what was your problem:You had to worry from attacks from the scripted heroes as well as from the attacks from the second town on the island.If you have both towns,not only do you increase the distance between you and your enemies,but you increase your chances of reaching the safety of a town when the enemy comes.With more freedom of movement you can flag the mines and defend against the attacks.

You didn't play v1.4. Losing only Minotaurs! Either you are csarmi reborn, you are plain exaggerating, your memory has failed you or you played a different map. You misunderstood what I meant as well. If you defend one castle with 10 Blood Furies still alive, you cannot expect those 10 Blood Furies to allow you to defend the other. They'll get slaughtered, whatever hero you left inside would die as well and you fail the mission.

TA works miracles at times.And of course you wont defend the castle with just 10 furries,but you didnt defend it with a single raider either.You did have the opportunity to buy other troops.

What can you do? I align my Cerberi (it's early game) to be opposite your Blood Furies. What're you going to do, expect your Minotaurs and Hydras to magically teleport within range to attack the Cerberi? Impossible. Attack them with the Blood Fury? There goes your proud record of not losing Blood Furies. Move your Minotaurs and Hydras to block the path? Sure, let my Cerberi hit more targets.

Sure,youll align them.Especially if I am the one with tactics.Dont forget that you dont know where Ill put my units(and neither do I know where youll put yours),so one will have advantage mostly due to luck.Even if you guess correctly,chances are that furries will go first because of the higher initiative,thus halfing your cerberi.

[Elvin]

Actually it's fairly easy not to lose furies during the first weeks if you know when to leave them out.And late game their damage is still impressive as long as you have preserved them.I use the furies only in earlygame creeping and in the final battle,leaving them out in skirmishes with enemy heroes.At any rate most people fear them enough in numbers not to leave them alone.ANd that can make a difference.
Or you can choose to never take tactics believing they won't make it to the endfight in adequate numbers and go magic all the way.I occasionally do that and my hero becomes an even worse killing machine.

[Mytical]

Just issuing a correction. My post about 30 vs 30 was supposed to be 30 skel archers vs 30 sprites (no furies involved). Now ignoring hero stats, skills, ect (which can be too varied). Also assuming the ATB bar does not benifit either (which do to random things it could). So in other words, attack for attack, just basic creatures. Also assuming max damage per attack (which may or may not be the case).

Skels get first attack as the sprites have to reach them. They do 1/2 damage (do to range penalties). So they do (30x2)/2 damage for 30 points of damage. Sprites have 7 hp so 4 die and 1 has 2 hp.

Sprites will get the next attack (their first turn was spent crossing the field but they have higher init). They do full damage with no retal. There are 25 of them. 25x2 = 50 hp damage. 10 skeletons die.

20 skeletons attack the 25 sprites for full damage. 20x2 = 40. 6 die..1 has 2 hp left for 19 sprites. The sprites retal for full damage 19x2 = 38 so 7 die and one has 2 hp left. that leaves 13 skeletons...and the sprites have not even got their next no retal attack.

This is why Sprites are killers (in their tier) their no retal. Now true skels get double growth and that skews the results. Creature for creature however the assassin is the only tier 1 creature that the sprites need fear. Oddly enough however, the skeletons would kill the assassins..go figure. Yet I personally would not term Sprites a killer unit. Just a matter of taste. You two can argue till the moon turns pink with purple pokadots (and knowing dl you probably will), but it all comes down to this. What makes a unit a killer unit?

Is it damage, endurence (hp, damage taken, ect), some combination? Usefulness? Everybody's deffinition may differ.

[DaemianLucifer]

20 skeletons attack the 25 sprites for full damage. 20x2 = 40. 6 die..1 has 2 hp left for 19 sprites.

Since when do skel archers have no melee penalty?

Oddly enough however, the skeletons would kill the assassins..go figure.

Actually they wouldnt because assassins would close them and anihilate them(no melee penalty,plus masive damage,plus massive HP).