Guys, give UBI a breath...

[mr.hackcrag]

Ok heres the bit i dont get. If i play a game but quickly get sick of it and think it sucks, i MITE leave 1 comment in that games forum saying so. What i just cant fathom is why anyone would spend every day putting posts in the games forum telling all that will listen that they think the game sucks and why. It no longer becomes criticism but whining/complaining and no one takes that seriously, especially not game makers like Ubi. If you dont like playing the game, thats cool, dont play it. But also, go write on forums of the games that you do like. Stop trying to convince those that are really enjoying playing the game that they are somehow wrong or have bad taste. We all no most of the faults of the game and dont need reminding by ardent non-Heroes 5 players that we're not supposed to be enjoying this game. If you dont like the party, LEAVE, dont stand around drinking free beer and whining that there arnt enough hot girls or that the music sucks. It aint cool, its annoying. Now, can i get anyone a drink before the stripper arrives.

First of all, I never told anyone that they have bad taste or they are wrong, or they shouldn't enjoy the game. And I'm pretty certain nobody else here has. Everything you generalized in your paragraph doesn't reflect what is actually happening. Those of us who you say "complain" are not doing so to sabotage homm. If there is enough support to make the much needed changes to the game, then we all benefit from it.

As ethric has rightly mentioned earlier, you need to have a lot of people's voices to get your point across. If only one person makes one recommendation, then the company won't take you seriously. If we are many, then they are much more likely to consider it.

[Kalah]

@grawlingdog:

I'll take a Glenlivet, straight.

Also, I'll explain to you that many of the people you see here have been around for a while. You see, not too long ago (around Newyear, in fact) we started up this place as a seperate forum hosted by our own site Celestial Heavens. Before that, the forum was here, on Forumplanet. So even people who don't appear to have many posts here can have been around for a while.

Those few who appear and do as you say, keep screaming how much the game sucks, are not listened to very much - in fact I don't think there are too many of those around. The people here tend to be fans who played earlier games in the series, who have tried to play H5 and found it wanting, and who are now anxiously awaiting improvements, expansions and possibly a future release of a new game (that'd be Heroes 6). Very few - if any - sit on their bums complaining; most play an active role in discussing what the game should be like and so on.

[GrowlingDog]

Well i wasnt talking about criticism more stuff like this.

stijn wrote:
why do you even play the game? eyes wide open

edit: @ DL obviously, and no harm intented, just wondering

DL wrote:
Who says I am?I reached the sylvan campaing,and left it like that to rot.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:

This is the best looking heroes game too. The graphics are great.

TT wrote:
So, did i mention how much i despise the graphics?! Mostly because everyone says they're so great, which they aren't.


And it goes on and on and on. Hey i play the game and have yelled at the screen a few times that something about it sucks but if 1 is not even playing the game any more, i just dont get why they would spend so much time talking about it. I mean if they want to, thats cool, but why?

[GrowlingDog]

Oh and i should say, i think the staff and the contributors at CH are doing an amazing job, Top stuff. Now i believe i have some Glenlivet somewhere around here

[Kalah]

Because they are hoping for change, basically.

Obviously Ubi aren't going to change the whole thing now that it's been released, but there are patching to be done, there's an expansion coming in maybe 6 months... and then it is possible that a new game will be made in a year or three.

Thing is, if the Community of fans say nothing, the producers will have no indication of what the fans like or dislike. They will have no bearing other than sales figures, and those don't tell you which features to keep from one game to the next. Only popular opinion does. And that's where Ethric's argument from earlier comes in; only if a lot of people talk, will the producers feel the need to listen.

[GrowlingDog]

Kalah:
Thing is, if the Community of fans say nothing, the producers will have no indication of what the fans like or dislike. They will have no bearing other than sales figures, and those don't tell you which features to keep from one game to the next. Only popular opinion does. And that's where Ethric's argument from earlier comes in; only if a lot of people talk, will the producers feel the need to listen.

Yea thats very true. So what if we make it easier for Ubi then. I know u have a poll here so maybe if ALL the fans let Ubi know by way of vote what should be changed immediately and what is not that important.
Like: Should Ubi spend more time working on the Graphics, story, creatures, sounds, battle layout and so on. With each point mentioned given 2-3 days to get the percentages in. Ummm, what do you think

[GrowlingDog]

Maybe just on Artifacts, could put the following questions:
1. Are there enough artifacts? yes/no
2. Are the artifacts varied enough? yes/no
3. Would you like to see artifact combo's? yes/no
4. Would you like to see faction exclusive artifacts? yes/no
5. Would you like to see lvl/exp requiremnet artifacts? yes/no

What do you think? Not to be put in the forum but as a general H5 poll.

[DaemianLucifer]

Ok heres the bit i dont get. If i play a game but quickly get sick of it and think it sucks, i MITE leave 1 comment in that games forum saying so. What i just cant fathom is why anyone would spend every day putting posts in the games forum telling all that will listen that they think the game sucks and why. It no longer becomes criticism but whining/complaining and no one takes that seriously, especially not game makers like Ubi. If you dont like playing the game, thats cool, dont play it. But also, go write on forums of the games that you do like. Stop trying to convince those that are really enjoying playing the game that they are somehow wrong or have bad taste. We all no most of the faults of the game and dont need reminding by ardent non-Heroes 5 players that we're not supposed to be enjoying this game. If you dont like the party, LEAVE, dont stand around drinking free beer and whining that there arnt enough hot girls or that the music sucks. It aint cool, its annoying. Now, can i get anyone a drink before the stripper arrives.

Ok,first this isnt just some random game that appearead out of nowhere,its a part of a well founded series.So each sequel is compared to the rest.And if you like the series,youd like all of the sequels to be the best.So if one of them is a disappointment to you,yet the other sequels you just adore and still play,youre not going to just post one single comment somwhere and forget about it,but fight tooth and nail to be heard so that the next sequel becomes what you want,or until someone mods the game(equilibris and wog,for example).And yes,I hate this game,but that doesnt mean that I believe nothing can fix it and make it into a worthy sequel,imo.

Maybe just on Artifacts, could put the following questions:
1. Are there enough artifacts? yes/no
2. Are the artifacts varied enough? yes/no
3. Would you like to see artifact combo's? yes/no
4. Would you like to see faction exclusive artifacts? yes/no
5. Would you like to see lvl/exp requiremnet artifacts? yes/no

What do you think? Not to be put in the forum but as a general H5 poll.

I think Kalah did exactly that by opening the "one thing you want changed" topic.

[GrowlingDog]

Yes i read the post by Kalah but it got off topic far too much and would have been a nightmare for Ubi staff to get any real clear indication of what they needed to do. I mean thats why politicians, news services, marketing agencies and so have polls. Not for everyones individual opinion and ideas on a subject but for a quick reference guide as to what the market is thinking. I mean if you worked at Ubi, how would you know what percentage of people are happy with balance in the game, balance of the creatures, the hereoes, the towns and what should be looked at 1st. If you had to wade thru page after page of forum posts to even get a hint, you may lose interest altogether

[DaemianLucifer]

You shouldve read it more carefully then because Kalah said he wanted to know how many different things we want.So after he gets the info he wants,it would be a simple task to make a nice list and email it to ubi.(if he wasnt going to do so,I suggest he plans to do it now )

[GrowlingDog]

Well that will definately help and im sure Ubi will be gratefull but i'm just thinking of something they can tap into everyday to get the quick facts and markets feel of things. I'm guessing they are working on H5 every day and getting an idea of what a large chunk of fans are thinking about a certain subjects would surely speed up the games improvement. Umm, dont you think

[DaemianLucifer]

So,why dont you go ahead and make the polls and ask the mods to stickify them?

[GrowlingDog]

Have just started exactly that. Any poll questions that you think should be included?

[mr.hackcrag]

That's the spirit GD. The best way to make things better is to get involved. I hope all the previous posts weren't taken to personally. I don't think anybody here is trying to ruin the homm experience for others. No hard feelings, huh?

As for the polls, maybe you should break it down into sections. There are some things that have a much higher priority than others, so it's important to define what is most necessary and what is most attainable in a relatively short period of time.

For example, just to get you started, interface, bugs (there's a handy bug list for referance), and AI are serious things that could be addressed rather quickly.

Afterwards, you might want to start addressing actual features in the game and so on. I'm sure there's no lack of ideas in this department. All you have to do is ask. For example, a lot of people want caravans and flagable buildings.

[GrowlingDog]

This what i've put together in the last 15 minutes. Do you think its on the right track?
Well i found myself recently talking about a poll for Ubisoft as a quick reference to see what needs to be changed/tweaked/improved in H5. So i figure rather than talking about a poll i'd just write one up. Please if you must comment, keep it very brief and only comment on the poll questions not on whether you agree with someone else. This post is for Ubisoft to look at and act on quickly, not a chat room discussion. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh. Ok now what to ask? Oh, if it can be answered yes or no, please answer that way.
Balance:
1. What town is too strong\weak-
2. What hero is too strong\weak-
3. What creatures are too strong\weak-
Comment on Balance-

Sounds\Graphics:
1. Do the graphics in battle scenes need to look better?-
2. Do the graphics of the map play need to look better?-
3. Do the cutscenes need to look better?-
4. Are the sound effects good enough?-
5. Is the music good enough?-
Comment on Sounds\Graphics-

Creatures:
1. Are there enough neutral creatures?-
2. What creature would you like to see in H5-
3. What creature would you dislike to see in H5-
4. Should neutral creatures be able to move?-
Comment-

Spells:
1. Are there enough spells?-
2. What spell is too powerful\too weak-
3. What spell would you like to see\not like to see-
4. Is the mana cost too little\too much-
Comment-

Movement:
1. Are you happy with the speed\initiative setup-
2. Are you happy with Summon creatures setup-
3. Are you happy with the Town Portal setup-
4. Would you like to see caravans-
Comment-

Ooops, didnt realise id already put it as a seperate post. so it now in th eforum as a post already, bugger

[GrowlingDog]

oooh damn, damn damn damn damn, (said like a monty python character out of Life of Brian)

[GrowlingDog]

i really gotta stop drinking so much red wine when i play H5 but it does make me feel good. Actually thats something that ive been curious about. How do you play H5. I tend to play the game on my new, zippo PC and then watch the posts on my not so new but connected to the net PC. I also usually have the Fox/CNN news on in the background. I very rarely play without a bottle of wine to make it all look better and fast food plays a big part as well. What about you guys. Actually should this be a whole different post?

[jeff]

Now to the point that fans need to tell want they want, the forum ran several pre-release threads while the game was still in early development. These threads were to be summarized and submitted, but UBI no longer wanted them.

Now they were in a no win situation, feelings toward H-IV were very divided, I happen to be in the H-IV camp, so no matter which path they took there was going to be a backlash. Unfortunately UBI/Nival executed the release badly, different sites listed different features being released with the game (US site incorrectly listed the editor as a release feature). Worse UBI/Nival released different comments to the different language sites, so no one site had the whole story. Finally they released a game that was not ready for primetime. It was apparent it was rushed, look at the autoupdater a great addition, but why was it not part of the initial release, its not new several other games had similar systems even 3DO had Gameupdate. Little things such as that show a lack of polish and simple oversight caused by rushing a game out the door before it was ready.

[mr.hackcrag]

i really gotta stop drinking so much red wine when i play H5 but it does make me feel good.

Hmm... if you need alcohol to make this game fun, then I think that's another sign of a premature release.

GrowlingDog double and triple posting, come on think it through before hitting the submit key. Now it happens to everyone but 3 different closely placed posts.

This is also the first time I've seen a triple post. And judging by the randomness of the content, I think it seems you've already gotten started on that red wine.

Anyway, as for the music poll, I don't think anything can be done about the music at this point. Not that it needs to, because this is one area where homm always shines. Probably the only part of the game that would be worth $50. But H2 still has the best town themes, and h4 has the best adventure themes. I thought h3 was the only weak musical score.

However, the war cry sound effects can be pretty corny and irritating at times and maybe a few other sound effects too. Regardless, music should have a low priority compared to all the other stuff.

[GrowlingDog]

jeff wrote:
Now they were in a no win situation, feelings toward H-IV were very divided, I happen to be in the H-IV camp, so no matter which path they took there was going to be a backlash. Unfortunately UBI/Nival executed the release badly, different sites listed different features being released with the game (US site incorrectly listed the editor as a release feature). Worse UBI/Nival released different comments to the different language sites, so no one site had the whole story. Finally they released a game that was not ready for primetime. It was apparent it was rushed, look at the autoupdater a great addition, but why was it not part of the initial release, its not new several other games had similar systems even 3DO had Gameupdate. Little things such as that show a lack of polish and simple oversight caused by rushing a game out the door before it was ready.

Umm, so is your point that the game was rushed out? If so, yes it was but if i put myself in the shoes of Nival staff then i'd probably do the same. You see it's these horrible things called shareholders.

mr.hackcrag wrote:
Anyway, as for the music poll, I don't think anything can be done about the music at this point. Not that it needs to, because this is one area where homm always shines. Probably the only part of the game that would be worth $50. But H2 still has the best town themes, and h4 has the best adventure themes. I thought h3 was the only weak musical score.

Thats all fine but i also note that not 1 reply or poll answer has been given to my post. Is it that badly written or is it just far easier to write a quick post than fill out a questionaire? We are hardly in a position to criticise and complain about Nivals inaction if, when it comes down to it, we really cant be bothered doing much ourselves can we? (he asks knowing what some responses may be). And yes the red wine is working but dont tell me thats now a sin as well, bad enough that I cant be snorting Columbias finest while playing H5