Guys, give UBI a breath...

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Guys, give UBI a breath...

Postby OliverFA » Aug 1 2006, 13:24

By reading posts of some fans in this and other forums, an uninformed reader would get the impression that Heroes V is an awful game. That their develpers don't have a clue about how to create a good product, or that the producers disregard fans and don't pay attention to them at all.

Nothing more opposite to reality...

Heroes V is an outstanding product. Certainly far, far better than the average game.

Visually speaking, it has nothing to envy to games coming from genres traditionally considered "better", such as first person shooters. At last, we strategy players can enjoy pretty 3D graphics and outstanding animations. The only game that could be compared to Heroes V in this sense is Civilization IV. Both games have demonstrated that it is possible to create a true strategy game that also has an amusing 3D engine while still being played and felt like an strategy game.

Some people (me included) think that this game is too much like Heroes III. I don't want to discuss if this is a good or bad thing in this post, but I will take it as a prove that it IS an Heroes game. A prove that a company that originally was not involved to the project and just bought the rights from the dying 3DO, was able to properly understand the game and its esence. UBI rescued Heroes when many people believed that it would not be a new Heroes title. They created a new incarnation that keeps all the essence from previous games and gave new life to the franchise. Fans should be grateful to UBI for rescuing their favourite game from a certain death. At least I am.

Lots of efforts and time have been invested in creating a really good an imaginative campaign. I specially enjoy the fact that maps are really variated. Almost every map is played in a different way than the rest of the campaign maps. Some are more RPG-like, others are more strategy oriented. In some maps you learn about one faction and its skills, in others you learn about the other factions. Some maps have certain objectives such as conquering all the towns while others have different objective like escaping from a superior army... etc. Certainly the 30 campaign maps are much more valious than 60 maps which would had been like clones of each other with just a few modifications. Story is not a masterpiece, but is pretty decent. If a movie was made from the campaign story I would definitely be an entertaining one that you can enjoy watching.

During all the development, fans have been an important part. As much as they could be without breaking the necessary company secret about what was being developed. I even would say that UBI risked more than it was needed when they gave access to hundreds of fans to the closed beta. Some of them were long term known hardcore fans, but most of them were just semi-regulars in the different communities, and very few was known about them. How did UBI know that none of those fans would leak the information they had access to? The NDA certainly didn't prevent a malicious "fan" to do such thing, and the risk was there. However, they took the risk in order to give fans an opportunity to have their say in the game that was being developed.

They agreed to delay the game publication (something really unlikely nowadays) They have realeased two patches so far and they plan to continue improving the game. If only because they want to make money from the expansion and is in their interest to have the best possible game by then.

I am not trying to say that everything UBI and Nival do is perfect. But certainly not everything they do is wrong either. In fact I would say that they do more good things than bad things. Fans critics and suggestions are good, because they will help making a better game. But negative criticism isn't. By blaming UBI for every bad thing they do and not praising them for all good things they do, fans hurt the game they claim to love and support.

Again, I am not saying you shouldn't criticize. On the contrary, go and say everything you dislike about the game! On my part I will continue asking for a better AI, I'll ask for the barbarian town and for flagable dwellings and structures until they add them to the game! But at the same time you criticize things they did wrong, remember to praise what you like, and remember to be nice. Everybody who loves Heroes games will benefit from such behaviour.

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Postby stijn » Aug 1 2006, 14:10

i want to add that i already have had lots of fun playing homm5, and i think most people here have, and the game is bound to get even better, it'll just take some more time than most folks hoped. don't forget that nival had no experience with homm games

edit: very nice post btw!
Last edited by stijn on Aug 1 2006, 14:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jolly Joker » Aug 1 2006, 14:34

I'd like to applaud this post. Needless to say, that I wholeheartedly agree. Thank you very much for it, it has brightened my day a bit.

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Re: Guys, give UBI a breath...

Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 1 2006, 14:44

Why should I?Theyve ruined the two games I liked.First the prince of persia,now the heroes.After playing the sands of time,and hearing about ubi buying heroes,I was really disappointed.Yet I still had some hope that this one will be good,that they wont screw up.Hope dies the last,right?Well mine died after playing through the campaigns.

OliverFA wrote:By reading posts of some fans in this and other forums, an uninformed reader would get the impression that Heroes V is an awful game. That their develpers don't have a clue about how to create a good product, or that the producers disregard fans and don't pay attention to them at all.


Well,essentially,that is correct.

OliverFA wrote:Heroes V is an outstanding product. Certainly far, far better than the average game.


Nope.Its just average.And that is bad for a heroes title.

OliverFA wrote:Visually speaking, it has nothing to envy to games coming from genres traditionally considered "better", such as first person shooters. At last, we strategy players can enjoy pretty 3D graphics and outstanding animations. The only game that could be compared to Heroes V in this sense is Civilization IV. Both games have demonstrated that it is possible to create a true strategy game that also has an amusing 3D engine while still being played and felt like an strategy game.


Some 5 years ago there was a game called empire earth.And you know what?It has the same characters graphics as heroes.It has the same lip-not-moving cutsceenes.But it has a great story,and imaginative units.The only thing good about HV graphics is the backrounf,both on the adventure map and the town screens.But whats a good background without a good camera?Nothing.HV pales in comparison to civIV.

OliverFA wrote:Some people (me included) think that this game is too much like Heroes III. I don't want to discuss if this is a good or bad thing in this post, but I will take it as a prove that it IS an Heroes game. A prove that a company that originally was not involved to the project and just bought the rights from the dying 3DO, was able to properly understand the game and its esence. UBI rescued Heroes when many people believed that it would not be a new Heroes title. They created a new incarnation that keeps all the essence from previous games and gave new life to the franchise. Fans should be grateful to UBI for rescuing their favourite game from a certain death. At least I am.


No,it doesnt keep all the essence.Theres no post game statistics(Im not even going to mention that v1.2 fiasco :disagree: ),it has no kingdom overview,it laks half of the buttons and options(sleep,for example).I too thought that the game looks too much like HIII,but I was wrong.It doesnt look like HIII.Its worse.

OliverFA wrote:Lots of efforts and time have been invested in creating a really good an imaginative campaign. I specially enjoy the fact that maps are really variated. Almost every map is played in a different way than the rest of the campaign maps. Some are more RPG-like, others are more strategy oriented. In some maps you learn about one faction and its skills, in others you learn about the other factions. Some maps have certain objectives such as conquering all the towns while others have different objective like escaping from a superior army... etc. Certainly the 30 campaign maps are much more valious than 60 maps which would had been like clones of each other with just a few modifications. Story is not a masterpiece, but is pretty decent. If a movie was made from the campaign story I would definitely be an entertaining one that you can enjoy watching.


Good and imaginative campaign?!Riiiiiiiiight!!First the campaign story is bland.This one can pass,though,if the presentation is good.But the presentation here is awful!Characters have almost no background to them,they act like idiots all the time,and half of the thigs they do,you must wonder why,because theres no explanation.So what if they added flashy cutscenes instead of the text bubbles?It still doesnt make the story any more imaginative.

OliverFA wrote:During all the development, fans have been an important part. As much as they could be without breaking the necessary company secret about what was being developed. I even would say that UBI risked more than it was needed when they gave access to hundreds of fans to the closed beta. Some of them were long term known hardcore fans, but most of them were just semi-regulars in the different communities, and very few was known about them. How did UBI know that none of those fans would leak the information they had access to? The NDA certainly didn't prevent a malicious "fan" to do such thing, and the risk was there. However, they took the risk in order to give fans an opportunity to have their say in the game that was being developed.

They agreed to delay the game publication (something really unlikely nowadays) They have realeased two patches so far and they plan to continue improving the game. If only because they want to make money from the expansion and is in their interest to have the best possible game by then.


As I seem to recall,most of the bugs that are here were reported in the closed beta.Does that sound like listening to fans to you?As for the delaying of the game,it was a scam.If they really listened to the fans,theyd postpone the game at least 6 months.This delay was planned ahead,and the fans delay petition just came as an excelent excuse to do it.As for the patches....I dont even want to waste my words.

OliverFA wrote:I am not trying to say that everything UBI and Nival do is perfect. But certainly not everything they do is wrong either. In fact I would say that they do more good things than bad things. Fans critics and suggestions are good, because they will help making a better game. But negative criticism isn't. By blaming UBI for every bad thing they do and not praising them for all good things they do, fans hurt the game they claim to love and support.


Of course,they did a few good things.They added the initiative system.Sure,it needs a bit polishing,but its good.They....Ummm....Well they did a few more good things,Im sure of that :devil:

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Postby Kalah » Aug 1 2006, 14:46

Man, I'm seriously thinking about starting a seperate "nothing but positive" thread...
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Postby stijn » Aug 1 2006, 14:49

why do you even play the game? 8|

edit: @ DL obviously, and no harm intented, just wondering

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Postby maltz » Aug 1 2006, 14:57

I liked Hero 4, and I like Hero 5. Give it a 8/10. :-D
The campaigns are pretty good, if I ignore the plots and think more about character building and gameplay tactics. Personally I also confronted a bug (jump mission) that stopped my progress, but the new patch solved the problem. Some other campaign bugs aren't fixed even after 2 patches (such as C3M1 the frozen patrol). The new hall of fame is a shame, too bad.
Last edited by maltz on Aug 1 2006, 14:59, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Marzhin » Aug 1 2006, 14:57

stijn wrote:why do you even play the game? 8|


Obviously, masochism :D

I partly agree with OliverFA, because I actually enjoyed (and still enjoying) heroes V a lot. And my father, the biggest Heroes fan I know, is now playing the game and likes it, so it's probably a good sign, after all.

But sadly I also partly agree with our familiar demon up there. The problem is not much Heroes V's flaws (except maybe the horrible story :devil:) , but rather the fact that Nival doesn't seem to want to correct them, and Ubi's marketing/communication tries to make fools of us on every occasion.

But that doesn't change the fact that Heroes V is fun and enjoyable...

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Postby jeff » Aug 1 2006, 15:00

You’re right of course H-V is not a bad game. It has beautiful graphics, an AI that reacts, alright poorly at times but if the editor is an actual improvement on H-IV not H-III, then the many good mapmakers have a product right now that they can make great maps. The AI may need handicapping but what’s new, besides I do think UBI will improve it some with the patches they have planned.

UBI basically did what 3DO did with H-IV, released a game that needed more time to perfect it. The difference UBI has the financial resources that would have allowed them to wait 3DO did not. Even EA has not been sniffing around for a while now. So in that way UBI’s ‘guilt’ is greater. All that aside for me perhaps the biggest disappointment was my hope H-V would reinvigorate me. Since Wizardry 8, MM9 and H-IV, I have bought only 3 games prior to buying H-V and none held my interest for long. Yet working on my campaign for the last three years always kept my interest in gaming and this series alive. When I finally bought H-V I was excited and dove right in. I have grown tired of it already; I made it through the first map of the Warlock campaign over 3 weeks ago. That was the last time I played it and I just can’t bring myself to return to it at least not yet. The reason for this I think is I just feel like I have done all of this before. For all its beauty and promise, I wanted an H-V and what I got was an H-III+. Now I loved H-III all those years ago, but like about 50% of the players I grew to love H-IV more, returning to the mundane (lack of caravans, etc) was not what I wanted. So my overall grade would be low, worse I have lost interest in it, and once I have lost interest in a game I have rarely been able to regain it. For me, that’s its failure, its failure to excite, but I am just one and many probably newer players will continue to enjoy this game as it evolves.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 1 2006, 15:00

stijn wrote:why do you even play the game? 8|

edit: @ DL obviously, and no harm intented, just wondering


Who says I am?I reached the sylvan campaing,and left it like that to rot.

And the dungeon campaign took me so much time to finish.Over a month.There isnt a single previous heroes campaing that I played for so long(actually,the playing of the campaign took just some 10 hours most,the rest was me pushing myself to finish the game).

But there is still hope that editor will improve something.*sigh*!Always hoping....

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Postby Orfinn » Aug 1 2006, 15:21

Agree totally with you Oliver. These boards are in fact not much fun anymore to visit thanks to all the trashing and bashing of H5. HV are for me just as good as the previous games even with som flaws, which Im pretty sure will be fixed, heck every game has its flaws even when a couple of years old but still good games. A good game needs alot of time from the developers to be a great game. I think we fans expect too much. Give them time, the game is only a couple of months old, I would rather be worried if this was the second or third year with bugs, errors and missing content still in the game from previous patches etc.

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Aug 1 2006, 15:25

I've played through all the campaigns and maps and have had a good time. :) Thats the way I judge a game...is it fun.

This is the best looking heroes game too. The graphics are great.

I would heartily recommend the game to anyone who has not bought it yet. The editor will be released soon and then we'll have more maps to play. The best maps have always been made by fans.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 1 2006, 15:56

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:This is the best looking heroes game too. The graphics are great.


So, did i mention how much i despise the graphics?! Mostly because everyone says they're so great, which they aren't.
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Postby Orfinn » Aug 1 2006, 16:12

Yeah you have mentioned that too many times, its ¤%¤#%#"% tiresome. And the thing about graphics, let people have their own opinion about that without you bashing them for thinking positive about it!

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Postby atma6 » Aug 1 2006, 16:22

Its probably best to ignore DL and TT as all they seem to be able to do is whine about the game in an endless loop.

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Postby GatorG » Aug 1 2006, 16:27

For most longtime players I think the problem they have with HoMM V is that the AI cheats. I think the thing that's missing with this version is that you don't feel like you've beaten the computer versus survived the cheats. It doesn't feel like previous versions.

I'm a fan of all the games in the HoMM series, but it does rate behind all the previous versions...but still making it a great game to me.

Because there's something missing when I conquer a computer town and find I had to fight a full regiment of creatures or an amount of creatures that it couldn't possibly have gathered on it's own.

As posted earlier, I don't want to have to play longer just because the computer is cheating. Before we played longer because the maps were bigger and allowed the computer to build up to the final battle...now it's just a build up to a computer that has a cheat script built in.

Knock those cheat scripts out...put in the planned newer map size...and it's back on par, but it's not there now...

G (-:

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Postby stijn » Aug 1 2006, 16:36

i think all homm ai's have cheated, i know for sure the h2 ai cheated, and the ai can cheat all they want imho, cause the ai will never be able to outsmart a good player

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Postby Orfinn » Aug 1 2006, 16:58

Exactly :)

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Postby GatorG » Aug 1 2006, 17:16

yes, but not to this extent. attack a castle in the first day in HoMM II and in HoMM V and there's a difference. so, bigger cheats make for a better game? i think not.

most, i would assume, aren't upset with cheats in general, but the ridiculousness of some of the cheats...

i should have clarified more what i meant...however, i stick to my basic point that in the other games i felt that i overcame the computer, not survived the "scripts." and to me that's the difference at this point.

still, i'm enjoying the game, just not as much as the others...

G (-:

edit - and to clarify further, i think most are talking from a replayability standpoint. yes, the first time it was great trying to figure out how to beat the game, but now it's more redundant than attractive. something that most of the negative posts point to.

and i'm just trying to explain the difference between this game and previous versions. if one had to choose between HoMM III and HoMM V which would you choose and why...

i do feel also that i'm glad they're still adjusting the game and they do need a chance. one positive is that this game is more balanced than previous versions and that's a big plus!
Last edited by GatorG on Aug 1 2006, 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby thecheese » Aug 1 2006, 17:21

You know what the real reason is that Heroes 5 is getting any real love from its players at all? Time. The franchise was going to go under until the project for H5 was underway. So no matter what the game, we'd love it to some extent. But they're pushing us on that, to be sure.

The way I see it, Heroes 5 rode in on graphics alone, and that isn't good enough for a strategy game. Like Lucifer said, all they've really added is the initiative system. So that's it? That my new heroes game? A few fresh units, a new skill system (which I also like), some new spells. Those are all great, but the lacking factors, particularly the absolutely horrid AI, make this game sub-par as far as heroes games go.

Yet, I'll play it all the same, because it's a heroes game and I want to believe I can learn to love it the way I have the past titles.


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