Are you really hyped?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Darkström
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Postby Darkström » Apr 20 2011, 19:54

Blocks100 wrote:It always puzzles me why folks bother to declare their 'un-hyped' status for this game. If in fact you were completely indifferent to the game, then you probably wouldn't bother posting in this topic on these hallowed boards....


I wouldn't say I'm indifferent. I'm definitely interested in this game. But I'm not hyped either, because I'm somewhat turned off by some design decisions (namely the creature line-ups, the town window, skill tree, spells as skills).

But that doesn't mean I won't give the game a try.

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Postby Metal Wolf » Apr 21 2011, 13:55

Blocks100 wrote:It always puzzles me why folks bother to declare their 'un-hyped' status for this game.

As banal as it may sound, for the same reason other people declare how they are hyped for this, really.
We are all fans of the series (on my part - HOMM2 is by far the best game ever) but not all of us are so glad with the massive changes Blackhole plan for us and in fact - some (me) are really concerned about them.
Thus, while I am very interested in the development of another title of my favorite series (hoping to hear some news about features that matching my vision of the game and not contradicting it, as well as just being curious) it's hard and even impossible to say that I'm "hyped".

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Postby Ar.Pi » Apr 21 2011, 16:10

but not all of us are so glad with the massive changes Blackhole plan for us


I think sequels always need to have big changes in them. Especially if its after number 3. We can't be playing the same game with improved graphics and some minor changes. I'm also sometimes opposed to a change (old school in heart) but after some thought I realize that its the correct way.

Rather be inventive and experimental (not destructive) than stick to the old proven formula.
But, I very much oppose to "dumbing down" and removing features that are pivotal and that have become the flagship of the series.

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Postby Metal Wolf » Apr 21 2011, 16:58

Ar.Pi wrote:
but not all of us are so glad with the massive changes Blackhole plan for us


I think sequels always need to have big changes in them. Especially if its after number 3. We can't be playing the same game with improved graphics and some minor changes. I'm also sometimes opposed to a change (old school in heart) but after some thought I realize that its the correct way.

Rather be inventive and experimental (not destructive) than stick to the old proven formula.
But, I very much oppose to "dumbing down" and removing features that are pivotal and that have become the flagship of the series.


I don't want to play the same game either, but my vision is of improvement and addition over the existing material (since the existing material is excellent), rather than radical change and erasure of foundations.

For example: Dynamic battlefields, Bosses, improved skill system - interesting and refreshing.
Town window, 3 tiers instead of 7 (by the way, I bet on money that this exactly is what's gonna make H6 fall eventually) and no less than three classic factions that are now gone (!) - very bad idea.
I guess that your last paragraph sums it all - those changes are indeed "dumbing down". While some features are to be refreshed and updated, other are sacred and should not be touched.

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Postby Fewtger » Apr 21 2011, 22:03

Metal Wolf wrote:Town window, 3 tiers instead of 7 (by the way, I bet on money that this exactly is what's gonna make H6 fall eventually) and no less than three classic factions that are now gone (!) - very bad idea.


I think 3 tiers is an improvement, now you're "tier 1" will go a long way, and stand toe-to-toe with "tier 3". This means, that every single unit is actually usefull.
I think of it, as the difference in creatures between Magic: the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh. In YGO, the only thing that mattered was your strongest creature and everything else didn't really matter.
Now we're going from YGO to MTG where a small creature is "big" (for MTG players, a 2/2 isn't big, but it's never small. And having a 2/2 is always helpfull).

I think H6 will vastly improve the series.

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Postby Mirez » Apr 21 2011, 22:48

I really don't see why people complain about the 3 tiers so much, there's still 7 units in each faction!
I just hope they don't screw up the balance.
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby Metal Wolf » Apr 22 2011, 1:07

Fewtger wrote:I think 3 tiers is an improvement, now you're "tier 1" will go a long way, and stand toe-to-toe with "tier 3". This means, that every single unit is actually usefull.

OR creatures of 3rd Tier will be so much stronger than creatures of the 1st tier, than the latter will become totally useless in mid/late game.
Should I remind you of HOMM4? This time it's going to be even worse (in this specific aspect).

Mirez wrote:I just hope they don't screw up the balance.

Yeah, that's exactly the point.

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Apr 22 2011, 13:39

Metal Wolf wrote:
Fewtger wrote:I think 3 tiers is an improvement, now you're "tier 1" will go a long way, and stand toe-to-toe with "tier 3". This means, that every single unit is actually usefull.

OR creatures of 3rd Tier will be so much stronger than creatures of the 1st tier, than the latter will become totally useless in mid/late game.
Should I remind you of HOMM4? This time it's going to be even worse (in this specific aspect).


Since many of the concepts they are using are ideas started out in in Clash of Heroes, I wouldn't be surprised if the elite or champion units only get their full strength when appropriate core units are on the field.
An example (not from the game, but one I thought up):

Imagine this setup:

Give the pit lord (tier 3) the spells "flame arrow" at 5 mana to cast, "fireball" at 10, and "meteor shower" at 15, but only give it a starting mana pool of 10. Now, let the familiar's magic drain ability drain to the pit lords, rather than the hero.
Guess what, even if the (tier 1) familiars are lousy combat-wise, you won't be able to use your champion's strongest ability without them!

Basically, although the FIGHTING ability of core units may become pointless later on, their SUPPORT ability may be a requirement!
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Postby OliverFA » Apr 22 2011, 14:30

intipacha wrote:
Elvin wrote:Those bastards are working on delivering you a good game.


no, they're working on delivering a game that sells good. it is clear in many aspects and i won't go into details.

kind of like starwars episode I-III.


If I like the game, I buy it. If I dislike, I don't buy it. But there is no point in piracing it.

If price is a problem, just wait until it's a bit older and buy it at a discounted price.

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Postby OliverFA » Apr 22 2011, 15:10

Metal Wolf wrote:I don't want to play the same game either, but my vision is of improvement and addition over the existing material (since the existing material is excellent), rather than radical change and erasure of foundations.


Also my thoughts. With simple games, developers need to change everything because there is nothing else they can do. But with HoMM, there are so many things that could be improved and had not been improved.

Take HOMM3, which seems to enjoy a consensus of being the top of the series. It still lacks many features. Adding those features is the way developers should have gone.

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Postby Ar.Pi » Apr 22 2011, 16:19

wow I didnt even know about the 3 tiers. I dont want too much info since I consider it spoilers :D

But it could be good, it lets people have more choice rather than go by a "step hierarchy". Something sort of an alternate upgrade. So you can have more options and more strategy. But its true that balance is key.

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Postby cstu » Apr 25 2011, 16:49

Metal Wolf wrote:
Ar.Pi wrote:
but not all of us are so glad with the massive changes Blackhole plan for us


I think sequels always need to have big changes in them. Especially if its after number 3. We can't be playing the same game with improved graphics and some minor changes. I'm also sometimes opposed to a change (old school in heart) but after some thought I realize that its the correct way.

Rather be inventive and experimental (not destructive) than stick to the old proven formula.
But, I very much oppose to "dumbing down" and removing features that are pivotal and that have become the flagship of the series.


I don't want to play the same game either, but my vision is of improvement and addition over the existing material (since the existing material is excellent), rather than radical change and erasure of foundations.

For example: Dynamic battlefields, Bosses, improved skill system - interesting and refreshing.
Town window, 3 tiers instead of 7 (by the way, I bet on money that this exactly is what's gonna make H6 fall eventually) and no less than three classic factions that are now gone (!) - very bad idea.
I guess that your last paragraph sums it all - those changes are indeed "dumbing down". While some features are to be refreshed and updated, other are sacred and should not be touched.


People are still playing H3.

Why was the Civ series able to make minor graphics and gameplay changes and be successful while Heroes can't? Release an updated version of H3 and it will be a big seller.

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Postby Mirez » Apr 25 2011, 18:27

I doubt that.
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby ^Dagon^ » Apr 25 2011, 22:11

I always thought Heroes 2 to be the best of the series until Heroes 5 came in and... wow! I still can't believe they made a game with so much strategic depth, full of fresh and good ideas. As for the balance some complain about, Heroes 5 is pretty easy to edit, though I think changing too much won't be a good idea.

In fact, I think Heroes 5 was so good that its almost impossible to surpass it. I am afraid that heroes 6 will be a mediocre game though I believe that considering it trash is a bit of an exaggeration.

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Postby jeff » Apr 25 2011, 22:58

^Dagon^ wrote: In fact, I think Heroes 5 was so good that its almost impossible to surpass it.


:lolu:
Wow I guess it takes all kinds.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 26 2011, 19:59

Sound like sarcasm to me... but it's the internet, there's even a law about sounding like satire...
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Postby ^Dagon^ » Apr 26 2011, 21:58

No, it is not sarcasm. I really love Heroes 5, I fail to find a reason not to. It combines diversity with the core spirit of the series. It feels like playing a Heroes game (unlike Heroes 4 which was good but not so 'Heroes').

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Postby Corlagon » Apr 26 2011, 22:17

jeff wrote: :lolu:
Wow I guess it takes all kinds.


While you are probably well aware that I agree with your sentiment entirely on many counts, I don't see any profit in ridiculing or spitting vitriol at those who liked the game and are brave enough to say so in this forum. Heroes V has many objective flaws and numerous abysmal aspects like storyline and Warhammer plagiarism and multiplayer and the editor, but it doesn't have no merits as is frequently suggested here, and there have been far, far, far worse products with the Might and Magic name on them.

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Postby jeff » Apr 27 2011, 0:25

Corlagon wrote: I don't see any profit in ridiculing or spitting vitriol at those who liked the game and are brave enough to say so in this forum.


I am sorry as I have not been accused of that before. I did not mean to ridicule, but if you make a stupid statement in someone’s eyes, you should expect heat. Others have taken far worse shots than that at me. That does not make it right but I really don’t think I was that harsh, if so, he has my apologies, but he came back and stood his ground and I was and am going to leave it at that. My attitude of late is in no small way due to my growing frustration with the H-6 launch and apparent direction along with little to no information on the campaign editor. If my attitude has turned in the direction you state then it is probably best I leave for an extended time to cool down and return to a more reasonable disposition. With that in mind I’ll catch you all later.
Mala Ipsa Nova :bugsquash:

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Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 27 2011, 9:27

^Dagon^ wrote:No, it is not sarcasm. I really love Heroes 5, I fail to find a reason not to.


Don't worry, i'm sure you'll get better as you get older.


^Dagon^ wrote:It feels like playing a Heroes game.


felt more like a Heroes-clone with Etherlords graphics...

^Dagon^ wrote:It combines diversity with the core spirit of the series.



I think you're confusing spirit with mechanics... at least i hope so.


And really, the diversity you speak of was at the cost of locking each faction onto one set of skills to make you feel like each was very different when it really wasn't any more then what you had with H4's skill system if you had locked the skills associated with a faction to the heroes of that faction. I'd rather have more obvious differences between the units for each faction myself... and just have them give some small extra advantage for their native faction (maybe have it as part of the factions hero types standard class perks).

Oh, and Heroes 6 seems to simply continue the trend H5 started of locking skills to factions/classes, so i don't know what you where complaining about H6 not living up to it...



Corlagon wrote:I don't see any profit in ridiculing or spitting vitriol at those who liked the game and are brave enough to say so in this forum.


THERE IS NONE AND YOU SHOULDN'T PURSUE THIS FURTHER, NOT NOW NOT EVER... IT'S MINE, ALL MINE, STAY AWAY.
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