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Wulfstan8182
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Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 9 2007, 23:40

what i did to get rid of the assasins is i pressed defend with all my troops 'til the assanins turn. then i took a ruler and put it so one and is at the battle mages and the other one is at the target. so, i put my assasins where they should get hit and got rid of them in 2 battles!
Edited on Sun, Dec 09 2007, 21:59 by Wulfstan8182
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Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 10 2007, 2:55

i just think you should add that since lots of ppl play on easy, you get 60 magnetic golems every week from your call to arms.
Edited on Sun, Dec 09 2007, 22:00 by Wulfstan8182
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Postby Wulfstan8182 » Dec 15 2007, 2:20

umm, yeah, where do i get the conjure phoenix spell?
Edited on Fri, Dec 14 2007, 21:22 by Wulfstan8182
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Postby Trelew » Apr 13 2008, 17:02

My big headache is the constant restart to get rid of the damn luck skills. Is there Memory guy in this round or do I have to keep restarting to get rid of all the luck skills?
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Postby Ravenheart87 » Apr 13 2008, 19:12

No, there isn't any Mentor. How do you restart the map? From tha game menu, or from the campaign menu? In the first case, it will generate the same skills and spells for you, if I'm correct. It worked so in the previous games.

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Postby Trelew » Apr 14 2008, 14:09

I go through the Campaign menu to restart
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Postby Ravenheart87 » Apr 14 2008, 15:39

Hmpf, interesting. But don't worry, a few levels later you'll find a mentor (or maybe on the next, I can't remember correctly), until that, luck will be useful too - it's always handy.:)

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Postby Banedon » Jun 25 2008, 14:18

This mission would be fairly hard if it weren't for one trick I discovered on my second try (first try was a hugely long game of hide-and-seek with the Dungeon heroes, after which I gave up looking for a simpler way). You should probably mention it. The key point is:



YOU CAN LOSE A BATTLE WITH ZEHIR SO LONG AS YOU HOLD THE ACADEMY TOWN!



Result: send Zehir with 7 Stalkers to engage the enemy heroes. Hide all 7 Stalkers. Spam Meteor Shower / Fireball / your best Destructive Magic spell. Do it again and again and again. Do it until their armies can no longer contest your force. Then destroy them. I met and defeated two large Dungeon forces with this tactic withering them down. After that, the mission was just a simple case of point-and-kill.



I did this without receiving Conjure Phoenix from the original Academy town, the Dungeon town and the Mage's Vault, but I did receive Fireball, Chain Lightning and other goodies.



Other notes:



1. You absolutely want Phantom Forces. There's no need for Sulphur (why are you getting golems anyway?), the Armor of Valor is superseded by other items soon and you have no guarantee you'll get Phantom Forces. Sure the spell won't be that useful once you get Phoenix, but before then it has its uses.

2. Very nice strategy yuritch, too bad I read that only after I finished the mission ^^
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Postby cjlee » Apr 16 2009, 18:45

Played this on easy, normal and heroic.



On easy and normal: made the mistake of breaking through the garrison on the bottom right of the map (i.e. to get to the Dwarf Quest hero). This triggers an attack by that level 17 Lethos with his big army. On my Easy and Normal tries I got phoenix, but even so you can't beat Lethos unless you have a sizeable army (to stay alive until after phoenix does it job).



It was very hard. Because the level 17 Tan has a big army, you must hire. You can't let all his troops target your magnetic golems. And if you attack too early like I did, you won't have enough time to summon a big enough stack of magnetics. I spent so much money building my castle that I didn't have enough troops, so beating Lvl 17 was not easy.



After I figured that attacking the SE garrison triggers Tan, I avoided it on heroic and went straight for purple's throat. It became boringly easy. On all 3 heroic tries, I steamrolled purple (most purple heroes flee), took either two or all 3 towns, all without being attacked by the level 17 tan.



But I've not won! I have almost given up!



Why?



I am incredibly frustrated.



Take my first Heroic Try for instance. Most battles are no challenge, but the enemy has one strong hero - Yrwana - wandering the map with dragons. She is only level 13 compared to my level 21 Zehir, but I had the worst possible luck - got Expert Light and Expert Summoning (natural for a wizard, duh!) - and wound up with rubbishy spells like Word of Light and Arcane Armor. No phoenix! No resurrection! Fireball does a grand total of 156 damage because Zehir has almost zero spellpower!



A level 21 Zehir, armed with tons of artifacts, is no match for a measly level 13 AI hero! She out-stated him in attack, defense and spellpower! When your stat points are all in knowledge, and when you don't have the right spells, you have too much mana and no way to use it. I was never offered Destructive Magic. I was offered Dark Magic only at level 18, and had no resources to build up more level 5 mage guilds anyway. She also seems to carry some artifacts to reduce my spellpower, because my damaging spells and Summon Elemental work half as well.



On my first Heroic try, all battles became straightforward might-based. I can't win without creatures. The enemy kills my golems too quickly using brute force, and I can't resurrect much with a miserable 156-damage fireball. So my game consists of trying to hold down towns in order to recruit, chasing irritating purple heroes, while accumulating black dragons and other dungeon creatures.



Zehir is completely useless because he has the worst spells. He can't even do the spam-armageddon-and-flee trick.



Eventually I realized that I am at an impasse. Since I must fight with brute force, I can't finish side quests and wipe out neutral stacks, because that would allow Yrwana to grab 2 towns and outproduce me. Thanks to the geography of this stupid map, Yrwana can stay indefinetely near town B and threaten my control of the 2 other towns.



Even assuming I am willing to slog through this ridiculous map, I have to consider mission 2. I have Zero good spells. And no way to get any more Expert Light or Expert Summoning spells here. If I don't get anything good on Mission 2, Zehir will essentially be USELESS.



So I restarted. (I used the New Campaign function because I read somewhere that it guarantees you a new try for new spells.)



Heroic Try 2 was the same. I rushed for the mage guild, arriving at level 15 at the end of week 2 and with expert life and summoning. And I got no good spells! They only offered me chain lightning which I can't learn. In the meantime I build my Academy mage guild up with Library, and got the same crap Paper Armor, Curse of Netherparts, and Word of Bullshxx. Is this a characteristic of Heroic, where Nival deliberately gives you the worst possible spells to make it Heroically Hard?



Once again I steamrolled purple. Grabbed Towns A and B with just fire elementals and a stack of magnetics. Threw all my resources into buliding a level 5 mage guild before Yrwana starts venturing out. And once again... got Curse of Netherparts... don't blame me for not choosing Destructive Magic. I was NEVER offered Destructive.



On Heroic 3rd try, I got the same Worthless Spells! I was so desperate I passed up Expert Light for Basic Dark at level 15, and I still did not learn any worthwhile spells. Mage Guild continued to offer Word of Bulls---. Gave up on day 12 after finding Mage Vault just as worthless.



I am extremely angry.



I have played since Homm1. Nival has the WORST scenario creators ever. Do these idiots even play through on different settings, using different combinations, to make sure things work out? If the gamemaker does not plan things well, even a Biara with nothing with a few legions of imps could defeat Zehir at Talonguard.



If a mission is being played on Heroic, battles Should be tough. Not 'convert 1-unit-stack-gremlins to 6 elementals' and Summon Fire Elementals Every Game, No Need To Use Brain to Think easy. But Nival should use common sense and make sure the mage guild gets the right spells, not rely on a randomizer!



Since I played Zehir's campaign on easy, normal and hard, I have written about how ridiculously easy the final battles are using Hard setting if you deliberately retrain Freyda and Wulfstan as spellcasters, Kujin as an anti-dark caster, and Zehir as a Leader, while it is very difficult to win using Easy setting if you stick to Kujin (ballista), Freyda and Wulfstan's natural builds.



When I play on Heroic, I expect the real challenge to come from strong opponents, not worthless mage guilds. When I play on Easy, I expect game to be easy if I build proper knights and runemages. What is the point of these difficulty settings?



I am getting older and I have other things to do with my life. It looks like Bye Bye, HOMM6. I'm not paying for your crap anymore.
Edited on Wed, Apr 22 2009, 01:50 by cjlee

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Postby illusionist » May 23 2009, 5:44

I think the most important skill in this mission is Logistics (Magic skills, in my opinion, are secondary). This is because you will be doing a lot of running around (in circles) with Zehir to catch up all the enemy heroes. But Zehir gets a penalty for Dungeon terrain, but Dungeon heroes do not (note that terrain penalty is dependent on Hero's race, not the creature he/she carries). With Expert Logistics + Path Finding Zehir avoids only being able to move ~6 tiles a day and it will save your precious time.

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Postby Grail Quest » Aug 25 2009, 19:25

I played till week 3 on Normal when I restarted. Why? The academy town was too far, so I decided to switch to using Dungeon and rolled back the game.

But main reason -- on Normal, you get to keep the 100 Assassins!



Here's how: Move them to a mule hero. This triggers an attack against Zehir immediately after you exit the Hero trade screen. Defeat them anyway you can, preferably without losses. 4 Rakshasa + Regeneration cast appropriately will do it. You've failed the sidequest, but no problem since there's no benefit/drawback either way.

Now, check your mule hero -- all 100 Assassins are still there. Cross the garrison. No assassins = no betrayal. Transfer the assassins back from your mule to Zehir.

Voila! 100 free assassins. You can use them as cannon fodder if necessary now that you *really* need it.

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Postby Grail Quest » Aug 25 2009, 19:28

CJLee - I can understand your frustrations. I quit playing on Heroic after Raelag's Dungeon campaigns in the original campaign. The problem with Heroic is that it really is UNTESTED. I can't remember where I read it, but the devs openly said they didn't test it to see if it were beatable.

Kudos to anyone who can do *every* campaign on Heroic. They are truly the elite players.

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Postby Grail Quest » Aug 26 2009, 6:01

A relaxing campaign on Normal--I saved the Assassins and with them plus the initial Academy troops I took down with me to the Dungeon level, I won the map.



There's an interesting opportunity to go for the Ultimate or at least set up enough skills for it: Because on Normal the AI builds slowly. Once you have them cornered and take away their mines, you can wander the map. You can out-build and out-grow them with two dungeon cities instead of one, and all towns have Artifact merchants, so with excess cash you can buy all the artifacts and convert them to XP at the altar.

If you also develop your Academy, you can send a sacrificial hero to whittle down their town garrison with Academy troops and keep them from building up too much while you cash out artifacts monthly.



Anyway, great start to a final campaign. For the first time ever, I'll get to play the Academy ultimate. I don't bl**dy care, but at the start of the second campaign, I'm going to cheat and give myself lots of cash to Memory Mentor my way to it. I never got Zehir to a high-enough level in the first campaign to try it. :-(


Edited on Wed, Aug 26 2009, 02:04 by Grail Quest

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Postby F_I_X_E_R » Sep 8 2009, 19:42

Hm, I exploited the no level cap.



When I reached the last dungeon town, I put Zehir right in front of the gates so the AI can't exit the town. My army was really big so they never attacked. I hired a new hero and swapped armies.



While the recruited her was standing blocking the AI, forcing it to be dormant, I visited every stat boost with Zehir, learned all the spells I could learn and recruited as much troops as I could + I enchanted the stacks with small bonuses.



You should notice that there is an altar in the map. You can sacrifice artifacts for experience! So I bought all the useless artifacts from every town and sacrificed them all for experience! I repeated this every 2 weeks. That's when the artifact merchants get new stock, and replenish the bought.



I left the map with a lvl 28 Zehir. I probably could have done a lot more, but I got bored doing this and completed the map by completely overpowering the poor AI.
Edited on Tue, Sep 08 2009, 15:43 by F_I_X_E_R

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Postby Wheeler Dealer » Sep 13 2009, 0:17

I feel really dumb. I did manage to finish the scenario (hard difficulty) very painfully by very mundane, routine means. Sometimes I have no imagination.



I did learn that only artifacts in the possession of the main character can be carried forward.



Why is everyone so adament that luck is a terrible skill for a wizard? I was aiming for the Arcane Omniscience so I was pleased to only have one magic skill. BTW, I got all the good summoning spells. I had real resource problems so resourcefullness and spoils of war were quire handy. I didn't mind the occassional double damage either.



I just can't find a good use for summon elementals. By the time they get to act, the battle is over.



Thanks for all the inovative ideas, maybe I can use them in the future, maybe when I'm done I'll go back and try to do the campaign on heroic.

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Postby Wheeler Dealer » Sep 14 2009, 0:46

I feel really dumb. I did manage to finish the scenario (hard difficulty) very painfully by very mundane, routine means. Sometimes I have no imagination.



I did learn that only artifacts in the possession of the main character can be carried forward.



Why is everyone so adament that luck is a terrible skill for a wizard? I was aiming for the Arcane Omniscience so I was pleased to only have one magic skill. BTW, I got all the good summoning spells. I had real resource problems so resourcefullness and spoils of war were quire handy. I didn't mind the occassional double damage either.



I just can't find a good use for summon elementals. By the time they get to act, the battle is over.



Thanks for all the inovative ideas, maybe I can use them in the future, maybe when I'm done I'll go back and try to do the campaign on heroic.

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Postby Vampirlord17 » Nov 27 2009, 19:17

whats that town in the NE?

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Postby ultimitsu » Jul 19 2010, 2:02

on my first heroic try i thought i did every thing as fast as could but i still failed badly... so I can to this page an realised the necessity of summon magic, after only 3 tries i got to keep summon. here is my tips for whoever else that may come to this page:



1, use the 100 assassin to the max, dont just waste them, get them ASAP, because they can help you take everything before first garrison and perserve all your own units. when fighting against wild monsters that will inevitably hit your units, use just the assissins and keep your other units off the battle. I was able to fully use them all and had no need to fight them myself.



2, summon fire element didnt work for me as well as firetrap, even though i didnt have fire trap minor skill. fire element moves way too late to be effective, by then half of my army is already dead. but using fire trap means i can do damage straightaway. fire trap is also really good for revealing enemy stealthed units.



3, enemy heros often comes with a very intimidating army, makes you feel like you would lose a lot of units if you fight them, and then there is another enemy hero with just as many unit only 3 days travel away! truth is dont be scared, 90% the time you will not have to fight to the death because enemy heroes tend to flee after they sense they cant win the fight, and they dont seem to take their army with them, so you basically win the battle only losing maybe 1/4 of your own and killing about 1/2 of his. leaving you enough to kill the next hero.



4, if you attack early enough, enemy will have to respond to your attack, and will not have time to save up big enough army to kill the fire dragon army that is guarding the 2 way portal, this is very important because without it, it is a one way street and enemy will not be able to sneak around your back and take back town B (i had this problem with i played for the first time on normal, as I can only have 1 big army with zehir so i couldnt both attack and defend)

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Postby Amagnonx » Nov 19 2010, 14:37

I ran through this a couple of times - I use hard setting.



Anyhow - I thought I should point out the following simple strat for those who take destruction magic here.



I used magnetic golems and armageddon, I also took ignite - which can be tricky to get - the golems get healed, everything else gets nuked. You need a decent spell power - and if the opponent has a stack of black dragons you may need to vary the strat - phoenix cape is useful of course - but you can win basically any fight with no losses.



I recommend sorcery, enlightenment, summoning, dark and destruction - mainly because its useful to get these spells in your book now, so you can mentor dorfs in the wulfstan section.



As someone else posted, I agree fire trap is far superior to summon ele's for most fights, especially large ground creatures.



Its worth while to lock purple in the top corner and use the altar to XP Zehir up a bit - depends if you care about scores or not.

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Postby danis » Mar 21 2011, 20:10

Hehee, reading this and doing the same, when I get to the garrison at (4) (day 4 week 4 month 1), after few days purple uses the portal(b) and comes with large armies, I load the game few days back and defended in the town(A), but then they come agen after 3-5days, and agen, 3 or 4 times I managed to defend and all 4 times they fleed away with ultra big damage done to them. But agen the purple player comes and now with 3heroes on the island and stacks the army in one hero with 6x3 dragons and other units, but the main thing why i lost is because of the 6x3 dragons(each dragon type was different(standart,upgrade2,upgrade3) so they fly over the wall and kills everyone.



In the small army that you can get in that time the Arcane Crystal is a very powerfull skill and Phantom Force also very good, can't do anything whitout them.


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