Fabrice Q&A - the Expansion and the Future

[King Imp]

@ Sir Charles



Yes, I am fully aware that a lot of those threads are repetitive. Never said they weren't. Not to get on anyone's case over on the official forums, but why doesn't one of them do like Gaidal Gain does here? Makes a summary of all the bugs reported all in the very first post. This way all he would have to do is read one single, but long post that has been summarized and then he could decide which are actual bugs and which are freak occurances. Much better solution than telling everyone to send him tons of e-mails that will do nothing but flood his inbox and cause him to not even read them all.

[DaemianLucifer]

They AREN'T all dragons.

Youre right.Only 57% of them are.Again,too much.

So 3 out of 6 is acceptable, but one additional one puts it into "ridiculous" status?

I never said its acceptable,I said its more than enough,meaning it already stretches the limit to the point of breaking.

*shakes his head in wonderment* This is exactly the type of fixation I was referring to the other day. Why isn't everyone complaining about the fact that every town has a ranged attacking unit? Why can't we have some originality and diversity? *sarcasm if you didn't notice*

Really?No one you say?Let me check my memory...Oh yes,I did mention that one too a couple of times,and I wasnt the only one in that thought.We also complained that its boring to have a caster a flyer a tank and a shooter in every town,and that each creature must have exactly one upgrade.Check out HIV for example:You could play a full melee town with a necro and youd be fine.No casters,no shooters,just walkers and flyers.Thats originality.Check the dragons in HIV:5 of them,each one completelly different than all the rest.Thats originality.But yes,that must be the reason we have dull units now,the famous HIV blows rule.

And as for Behemoths "fitting the dwarves perfectly". How so? Is it because they're a fire-based town that lives near the center of a volcano? Yep, a big furry beast fits in there perfectly. *rolls eyes* Now before you step up and say they're a snow town and they've got woolymammoths so why not behemoths...recall the fact that they domesticated the mammoths after they left their homes. The fire dragon fits in more with the theme of the town and with the location of their town. Could they have gone with some OTHER fire-based creature? Sure, but they chose a dragon. The dragons are the gods in this world. Doesn't it make sence for these gods to align themselves with beings most like themselves? Your reasoning is solely based upon your personal preferances. Mine has some actual thought and rational behind it. Agree or disagree...it won't change the facts. The storyline DOES hold some bearing on the design of the factions.

Really?So,having a phoenix alligned with dwarves is completelly irrational?Having a behemoth,a cave beast(and yes,dwarves live in caves),is completelly irrational.Frost giant,snow eagle,heck even yeti,all are irrational.It has to be a dragon,period.No,your reasoning comes from a pretty closed mind,nothing more.

[Sir Charles]

@ DaemianLucifer

I was being sarcastic about those comments about the elves being repetitive and the dwarves. But you took them seriously. If you're going to have a faction based upon race...what's wrong with having a good portion of that town actually BE that kind of race? The Dungeon has 4 elves in it. They're all diverse and unique. Where's the problem? Sylvan has 3 elves in it. All pretty unique. (no sprites are NOT elves....yes they've got the same ears...but still not elves). I agree somewhat about the life-forms the necro units are based from. But even so, they're pretty diverse too. They're mostly all humanoid units, but without skin you can't really tell what race they were originally. There could easily be elven undead there. And while I'll always agree that the "human" faction will always be the most boring one...it will also be the one that will undoubtedly always be there. For many players, it gives them a frame of reference and also (for some reason I don't understand) it's quite often a favorite among MANY fans.

Concerning your comment about the sales of h3...I agree completely. But remember that NWC had already established that series and they already had a running storyline premise before it was made. That's not the case here. Once they decided on the storyline, it helped form some of the decisions concerning the factions and their makeup. And one last thing to consider in comparing h3 to h5 in terms of diversity....We've only got 6 (now 7) towns to work with now. H3 had NINE to work with. There's nothing stopping Ubi from adding MUCH more diversity and more towns when they go to a second expansion or H6...but with H5, conservative was the right approach. Re-establish the brand....then put in your own twists and turns to the series. Whether you liked h4 or not, you'll have to admit that it crippled the franchise and split the community in half. That needed to be addressed before anything else.


So what's the acceptable percentage then? Is 28% okay. What about 33.43%? Give me a huge break. Who make that determination? The fans? Or the game designers?

As for the diversity with h4....I have no problem with that. But here's the thing. H4 is the game that caused the split in the community. It was the big alteration from the heroes successful mold. Ubisoft SEES that. So logically they want to re-establish themselves in a safe place FIRST. That safe place is BEFORE the changes were implemented. I know for certain that Ubisoft did indeed LIKE many of the changes implemented with H4. However, some of those changes were also reasons why some people started to dislike H4. They need to stay away from those things with this initial release. It's as simple as that. I know that you don't agree with it, but from a business standpoint, it was the only way to go and still have it feel like a Heroes game.

In regards to the level 7 dwarven unit. I have no problem with it being some unit OTHER than a dragon. I do have a problem with it being a SNOW based unit. That doesn't make sence with the town. It's a fire-based town. They worship a fire-based diety. Why the heck would they have a snow eagle? *puzzled* The phoenix has already been used (and the community would go berserk if they used the phoenix as the level 7...they'd say they just copied a unit already in the game and stuck it in the town). They haven't had a wingless dragon in h5 before. They haven't had a fire-based dragon before either. Could they have gone with something else? Sure. But when their diety is the Dragon of Fire....doesn't it make SOME sence to have a unit that has some connection to the diety in the town?

[DaemianLucifer]

I was being sarcastic about those comments about the elves being repetitive and the dwarves. But you took them seriously. If you're going to have a faction based upon race...what's wrong with having a good portion of that town actually BE that kind of race?

A good portion,yes.Almost all of them,no.

The Dungeon has 4 elves in it. They're all diverse and unique. Where's the problem? Sylvan has 3 elves in it. All pretty unique. (no sprites are NOT elves....yes they've got the same ears...but still not elves).

Sprites are elves,deal with it.There would be nothing wrong if only one of those two had elves,and if there were a bit more diversity among them(furries and matriarchs are very similar,and so are dancers,druids and hunters).

I agree somewhat about the life-forms the necro units are based from. But even so, they're pretty diverse too. They're mostly all humanoid units, but without skin you can't really tell what race they were originally. There could easily be elven undead there.

There could,but there isnt.We all know those are all human based corpses,no point in saying otherwise.

Concerning your comment about the sales of h3...I agree completely. But remember that NWC had already established that series and they already had a running storyline premise before it was made.

And what did they establish it with?Jumbled creatures.

That's not the case here. Once they decided on the storyline, it helped form some of the decisions concerning the factions and their makeup. And one last thing to consider in comparing h3 to h5 in terms of diversity....We've only got 6 (now 7) towns to work with now. H3 had NINE to work with.

8,and 9 in brackets(since you put it like that for HV).

There's nothing stopping Ubi from adding MUCH more diversity and more towns when they go to a second expansion or H6...but with H5, conservative was the right approach. Re-establish the brand....then put in your own twists and turns to the series. Whether you liked h4 or not, you'll have to admit that it crippled the franchise and split the community in half. That needed to be addressed before anything else.

Yes,it did fail,but thats no reason to scrap it completelly and start from zero.Look,if you make a car that looks fabulous and runs excelent,and its only problem is that the engine is weak,would you scrap it and start anew,or would you just change the engine?

So what's the acceptable percentage then? Is 28% okay. What about 33.43%? Give me a huge break. Who make that determination? The fans? Or the game designers?

If you can make all the creatures dragons and have them all unique,it would be fine,but thats imposible.So somewhere around 40% or less would be ok.

As for the diversity with h4....I have no problem with that. But here's the thing. H4 is the game that caused the split in the community. It was the big alteration from the heroes successful mold. Ubisoft SEES that. So logically they want to re-establish themselves in a safe place FIRST. That safe place is BEFORE the changes were implemented. I know for certain that Ubisoft did indeed LIKE many of the changes implemented with H4. However, some of those changes were also reasons why some people started to dislike H4. They need to stay away from those things with this initial release. It's as simple as that. I know that you don't agree with it, but from a business standpoint, it was the only way to go and still have it feel like a Heroes game.

No,I understand the careful threading they took,but like you said some of those changes were bad,not all.Thats the key word here.For example,take caravans.Honestly,I see no logical reason for scrapping that.Flagable windmills too.Especially since one of their goals was speeding up the game.

In regards to the level 7 dwarven unit. I have no problem with it being some unit OTHER than a dragon. I do have a problem with it being a SNOW based unit. That doesn't make sence with the town. It's a fire-based town. They worship a fire-based diety. Why the heck would they have a snow eagle? *puzzled*

Look,I gave you four creatures just as an example,there are tons more.Behemots are cave dwellers,so why dont they fit?They could have made thane a top tier creature and insert something else below.That would work too.

The phoenix has already been used (and the community would go berserk if they used the phoenix as the level 7...they'd say they just copied a unit already in the game and stuck it in the town).

No,not really.They would just put the neutral creature to a town.Not a big deal.It still is better than a dragon.

They haven't had a wingless dragon in h5 before. They haven't had a fire-based dragon before either.

Yes,and they had to make it look like a dinosaur.Honestly,I must repeat myself here,the best thing they did is to make dragons stand on all fours,unlike in HIII.Why did they have to change that?

Could they have gone with something else? Sure. But when their diety is the Dragon of Fire....doesn't it make SOME sence to have a unit that has some connection to the diety in the town?

Yes,but it doesnt have to be a dragon:Salamander,fire giant,efreeti,phoenix,heck even a magma golem fits here.

Oh look,we broke the record

[Gaidal Cain]

@ DaemianLucifer

I was being sarcastic about those comments about the elves being repetitive and the dwarves. But you took them seriously. If you're going to have a faction based upon race...what's wrong with having a good portion of that town actually BE that kind of race?

Nothing. But for me, it's too much with more than half of the units in the town be that kind. And it's that way in most of the towns, with the exception of Academy, and to some extent Inferno and Necropolis. They could easily have replaced two elves with other units and still have a pretty consistant theme for both of those towns. Or two or three of the dwarves in the fortress- there didn't have to be a dwarf riding those bears, for example.

And as for dragons: Part of the problem I believe is that the three original dragons aren't very different - the living ones both have a breath attack and some magical immunity, the undead one has no interesting speciality to speak of. Compare with H4, where the equivalent dragons were one spellcaster, one magic immune with breath attack, and one undead with damage reductions from ranged attacks and the ability that now nightmares has. One can do better with a dragon than just have it be a big beast.

Mod note: Also, remeber that you can edit your posts, or *gasp* answer two different posts of someone else in one post from the first place.

[ThunderTitan]

Where did that law come from?

Like all laws in democratic states it was voted by the majority (of legal age and without a dragon-loving criminal record).


And GC, you forgot how they just mad the Harpy an Elf.

I already made my stance on what dragons should be like (european, oriental, undead, fairy and maybe another one).

[Sir Charles]

I just wrote a huge reply to all of this, but I erased it. This discussion is pointless. I have my opinion, you have yours, Nival & Ubisoft has theirs. I'm willing to listen to other options and I've changed my opinions many times along the journey. I don't think some people here will. It's become quite obvious that no matter how much I use reason and logic to attempt to make my point clear, some here will refuse to listen simply because some of my points actually agree with the evil empire that is Ubi/Nival. *rolls eyes* So please, feel free to continue to bash the game and it's designers. Soon enough this place will degenerate into AW's Quillers. At one time this place was an open enviroment willing to accept new ideas. Now it's just a few shepherds leading a flock of willing followers. Sad. I guess I'll just go back to my group of "yes men" and try to help the game I love from the background. Because the foreground is becoming much to depressing.

[DaemianLucifer]

Mod note: Also, remeber that you can edit your posts, or *gasp* answer two different posts of someone else in one post from the first place.

I considered doing that,yes,but then I thought "Why bother when the mods can do it for me?" Thanks for spoiling me guys,you are the best

I'm willing to listen to other options and I've changed my opinions many times along the journey. I don't think some people here will.

I already changed mine.From faith that this game will turn out to be ok after all,to complete lack of faith that it can be I have now.You yourself said not to judge someone you dont know personally,yet you do that same thing.

It's become quite obvious that no matter how much I use reason and logic to attempt to make my point clear, some here will refuse to listen simply because some of my points actually agree with the evil empire that is Ubi/Nival.

And some will defend them blindly no matter what reason and logic say.Here,I isue you a chalenge:No matter the lack of communication and other screw ups,if you manage to give me a logical reason behind the decision of scrapping caravans,windmill flaging and text boxes you will see me bash nival and HV never again.Mind you that "They thought it was a good choice and were horribly wrong" is the only reason I can think of.Justify it with something else and I will cut them some slack.

At one time this place was an open enviroment willing to accept new ideas. Now it's just a few shepherds leading a flock of willing followers.

Funny,thats exactly the same thing we said about nival and "yes men" long ago.But we at least have reasons for that:nothing used from HIV,almost nothing new in the game,dragons everywhere,humans,some more humans,elves,and some more elves,plus a bunch of dwarves,oh and dragons again.

[Omega_Destroyer]

And as for dragons: Part of the problem I believe is that the three original dragons aren't very different - the living ones both have a breath attack and some magical immunity, the undead one has no interesting speciality to speak of. Compare with H4, where the equivalent dragons were one spellcaster, one magic immune with breath attack, and one undead with damage reductions from ranged attacks and the ability that now nightmares has. One can do better with a dragon than just have it be a big beast.

I completely agree with you on that one.

[Jolly Joker]

About bugs and fan-input:

If you check the credits of the game you'll see that there is a test group involved that works independent from Nival. Those guys are the prime bug and balance checkers. Does someone really think they would rely primarily on fans to get the game-bugs checked?

On the rest: All those whining sounds like someone bought a new car and now found that the ash-tray in it is too small. Nothing about things that really matters. Who cares whether we have 3 or 4 Dragons? That's absurd. It's like complaining in Civ about having to many footsoldier type of units.

[DaemianLucifer]

On the rest: All those whining sounds like someone bought a new car and now found that the ash-tray in it is too small. Nothing about things that really matters. Who cares whether we have 3 or 4 Dragons? That's absurd. It's like complaining in Civ about having to many footsoldier type of units.

Those car analogies are pretty catchy,arent they?And that civ connection is absurd.But the dragon thing would be the same if in civ we had 20 foot soldiers instead of the current 5(not counting the specials).Whats the point in having different races if all are goind to be the same?Its like WCII.Both orcs and humans had basically the same units with different skins,and thats what bothered everyone the most.

[Mytical]

The problem is, when we try to use logic people like you sir charles seem to be as unwilling to listen as you claim us to be. It is not that some of us do not listen to your arguments, but that when we raise questions or concerns that it is brushed off as 'ubi bashing' or 'just whining' by those that support Ubi's decisions. That is the definition of yes men. I have countlessly (and endlessly) said that I do like a lot of the features of the game and that there are great things in this game. Yet, when I agree with a concern or problem, I am immediately put into the camp of 'ubi bashers'. This is not the case. I have no issue with Ubi or anybody else that made this game. I do; however, have issues with many other things.

The most important actually IS originality. To be honest this lacks a lot. H3 was very original, yet kept it's roots from h2, h1. A lot of things were added, and guess what..it was an amazing success. So adding or changing things is not a bad thing, it is how you go about it. Lets take Haven for instance. Lots of human troops, which is not a bad thing mind, but it could be better. Humans are generally diplomatic and decently work well with a wide variety of people (in rpg 'like' format at least). So training various types of animals, or using different allies would be not only acceptable, but would make sense. So you could easily take out a few humanoid troops and replace them with either a) combat trained animals, or b) 'hired' troops of various kinds. This would at least offer some variety without going off too far from the original concept. Elves could have not only normal or magical creatures of the forest, but forest spirits as well. Like Dryads, or Neraids, or ..well you get the picture. Dozens of possibilities there. Dark elves were known to enslave (see minotaur here) various races, so there is a logical reason they would have different types. You see where this is logiciallly going right? Without going too far from the original concept any town type can have so many alternatives that you should not need more then 1 or 2 of each kind to be honest. And what rule says that druids need to be elf? Why not give them 'shapechange' (a very common druid ability) and they could be gold bears or whatever (and yes they can cast in the animal forms if they take wildcasting lol). So, please don't try to say it is logical they used what they used, when these alterations are just as logicial and more original. But, I know this will be brushed off as "ubi bashing" or 'whining' or 'illogical' so that is fine.

[theLuckyDragon]

H3 was very original, yet kept it's roots from h2, h1. A lot of things were added, and guess what..it was an amazing success. So adding or changing things is not a bad thing, it is how you go about it.

Now someone's going to say something the likes of "it wouldn't have been safe to be too creative because a solid foundation needed to be placed for the game" bladi bla bla.

The "too creative" part is of course very subjective.

[arturchix]

The most important actually IS originality. To be honest this lacks a lot. H3 was very original, yet kept it's roots from h2, h1.

That's an interesting point, keeping in mind that H3 basically was an upgraded H2 - a lot more clone than many call H5 clone of H3. Now if something was really original (BTW, define original), then H1. H5 lacks originality? How about the new skill system? Town leveling system? A continuing story throughout all campaigns? New combat system? Isn't that original? So your major complaint is that there are too many dragons in the game? AFAIK the new Might and Magic history involves 7 dragons so you must be complaining about the new history in general.

The problem is, when we try to use logic people like you sir charles seem to be as unwilling to listen as you claim us to be. It is not that some of us do not listen to your arguments, but that when we raise questions or concerns that it is brushed off as 'ubi bashing' or 'just whining' by those that support Ubi's decisions.

But do YOU listen to arguments of so called "yes men"? Looks like every H5 supporter has a good chance to get in this group because they are so blind, wow. No offense, Mytical, but the major complaints I've heard about H5 is about the unpatched game. There were several nice quotes in this matter, by Gafferr.

[Jolly Joker]

About the originality:

We sure heard a lot of complaints like:

"WHERE THE HELL IS MY XXX!"

and you can put any "missing" creature from any Heroes version prior to V in for XXX.

I don't think, checking books on mythic or fabled creatures and put them into the game has something to do with being original.

I can accept, though, when someone says, for my taste there could have been more creatures in the game instead of humans, Elves or Dwarves. But original? Come on. "Original" the thing would be if they would completely make units up OR if they would scrap everything that was there before (and I don't wanto to hear the whining we would hear then).

Whatever they do, however they will do, the more predecessors there are, the more ways to alienate "fans" by leaving out things, changing things, changing not enough things, going back to something, not going back to something.

What matters, I think, is the final product as a whole. Whether I dislike a certain animation or interface, who cares? Did a game get ever 100%? Do we even want one? Nah. No need for a sequel then.

[DaemianLucifer]

That's an interesting point, keeping in mind that H3 basically was an upgraded H2 - a lot more clone than many call H5 clone of H3. Now if something was really original (BTW, define original), then H1. H5 lacks originality? How about the new skill system? Town leveling system? A continuing story throughout all campaigns? New combat system? Isn't that original?

The skill system is quasi original.Levels and initiative are original.As for the story...heh,what story?Racials are original though.And mind you that not everything original is good.Big squares for example.

So your major complaint is that there are too many dragons in the game? AFAIK the new Might and Magic history involves 7 dragons so you must be complaining about the new history in general.

So what?Dragons are gods,thus there should be less of them not more.Honestly gods fighting on your side?

But do YOU listen to arguments of so called "yes men"? Looks like every H5 supporter has a good chance to get in this group because they are so blind, wow. No offense, Mytical, but the major complaints I've heard about H5 is about the unpatched game. There were several nice quotes in this matter, by Gafferr.

What arguments?That ubival did their best?That we should cut them some slack?That the game is inventive enought?I gave a chalenge above,so if the "yes men" have any solid arguments,please,let them answer it.If not,Ive proven my point.

[Sir Charles]

And some will defend them blindly no matter what reason and logic say.Here,I isue you a chalenge:No matter the lack of communication and other screw ups,if you manage to give me a logical reason behind the decision of scrapping caravans,windmill flaging and text boxes you will see me bash nival and HV never again.Mind you that "They thought it was a good choice and were horribly wrong" is the only reason I can think of.Justify it with something else and I will cut them some slack.

Okay, we'll go one at a time.

Caravans. The original intent was to include them in the game before it had gone gold. We convinced them that many fans wanted them during the early beta-phase (before the original closed beta). So they began working on implementing it. During this same stage we started running into all sorts of minor (and some major) errors in game-play implementation. Formulas/spell management/creature casters/etc. Once they got the caravan finished, it just didn't work well with the current system. It was pretty much identicle to the h4 one and that meant it came with all the h4 problems. They started to re-work it. And by that time we were near the open beta. And we started finding some other major problems that had more pressing concerns. In the end, it was decided to leave it out temporarily and focus more on things that needed attention NOW. They would've preferred to include it originally, but we'd gotten all the extra time we were going to get. And that time needed to be spent on the faulty game mechanics.

Flagable windmills. This one's quite simple actually. While many of the h4 fans loved that, lots of h3 ones HATED it. Flagable windmills are mines. Period. Sure, they give assorted resources instead of just one variety, but they're still just mines. By leaving them unflagable, you include an actual decision by the player. If you want those weekly resources, you must make a conscious effort to gather them. This is simply a decision that you're not going to agree with. But many are pretty adament about it. Speeding up the game will at some point hurt the game.

Text boxes. Here's one I just haven't heard a decent answer for. Originally they said that they wanted to eliminate those in order to get rid of the unnecessary clicking (closing the box). I'm guessing that the assumed that many didn't actually take the time to read the text boxes. I admit that I'm guilty of that quite a bit. Once I've read it once, I rarely do a second time. But it should still be an option in my opinion. This is definitely a subject that should be re-iterated to them. Hence, PM Fabrice your opinions and suggestions on the matter. It doesn't have to be automatic, but it should at least be an option. It's critical to many mapmakers.

[Mytical]

Well again, just brushed aside..and they say we do not listen to 'logic'. Well I listened. Hmm h5 is more different from h3 then h3 was to h2. Well lets see here. H5 Has the skill wheel which I grant you is original. The story line, not so much. Pretty much the same story we have heard many times just with different names. New creatures..eh not so much maybe here and there, but not very many. Maybe a few new names though. New objects to interact with..a couple. Now I won't go into the actual heroes because you actually downgraded there. The specials were uninspiring and just rehashed. (Oh look this person gets + to this creature...wow how original). Magic? Again, downgrade. Now true I don't want superpowerful magic, but at least magic that will level the playingfield. Less spells, less useful, and less interesting. Now mind you that this may change with HoF but I have no way of knowing if it will or not. As for cities, yeah the city layouts are new, but the cities themselves are not, so sorry can't get credit for that. I mean if somebody adds say a couple of new creatures would you give them credit for creating HoMM? Of course not. Now lets go from h2 to h3 shall we?

More creatures..check. More town types, check. More interfacing objects check. Now I will grant you little change in magic from h2 but at least it didn't downgrade. New abilities...just as many as h5 so a tie there. Specials..again little difference, so a tie there also. Now you will say what about graphics..ok I will give h5 the props on graphics. Gameplay h3, originality, h3, new features, h3, a couple of things tie, oh and graphics h5. Yep seems to be as unoriginal from h5 to h3 as h3 was to h2 to me....(wont even note sarcasm here). Now I fully expect you to come back with some reasoning behind your statement. Maybe you can make me see the light of where you were coming from. I sure can't at this time. Again, I do like h5, I don't care if ubi/nival, jimbobfurleybob, or the elves of santa made the game. Just because we don't like something, and have reason not to like it, don't brush us off. Some of us would love to see the series made better. Maybe the expansions would do that, but that is forcing people to pay even more money for somethings we should have already gotten.

[arturchix]

The story line [of H5], not so much[original]. Pretty much the same story we have heard many times just with different names.

My point is - each next campaign continues one storyline. H4 had no overall storyline at all, H3 had a main plot with an exception of few campaigns.

New creatures..eh not so much maybe here and there, but not very many. Maybe a few new names though. New objects to interact with..a couple.

I think JJ already nicely answered to it, I'll just quote him.

I can accept, though, when someone says, for my taste there could have been more creatures in the game instead of humans, Elves or Dwarves. But original? Come on. "Original" the thing would be if they would completely make units up OR if they would scrap everything that was there before (and I don't wanto to hear the whining we would hear then).

The specials were uninspiring and just rehashed.

That's your opinion, mine's a little different. The specials were truly uninspiring in H3 with very few exceptions. Oh look, my hero got a weekly growth increase of unicorns, how cool!

Magic? Again, downgrade. Now true I don't want superpowerful magic, but at least magic that will level the playingfield. Less spells, less useful, and less interesting.

Can you please honestly answer which spells do you miss from H3 or H4 and feel that they should have been in H5? I'm not arguing that H5 may have less spells but please, list those you're missing in H5. And I think it's not very fair to compare single H5 with, say, overall content of H3 and expansions - developers certainly have reserved some stuff for the H5 expansions as well.

As for cities, yeah the city layouts are new, but the cities themselves are not, so sorry can't get credit for that.

Well, here we go again to originality question - should H5 have completely new towns and creatures from previous HoMM games?

More creatures..check. More town types, check. More interfacing objects check.

lol, what is the point of your checks? I'm not comparing how many creatures, towns and interface objects were in each game - we were talking about H5 not being enough original and games being clones, right? H3 basically is an improved H2 (if you disagree with me, we can start a new debate thread about this), adding some additional content on the same basis and using an improved graphics. The town system remains the same, combat the same, skills more or less the same, magic the same, just with some additional content. H5 has new combat system, leveled town system, new skill system, oh and the game itself is completely 3D.

Just because we don't like something, and have reason not to like it, don't brush us off. Some of us would love to see the series made better.

AFAIK we all are here because we love HoMM and wish to see the series grow and prosper.

Maybe the expansions would do that, but that is forcing people to pay even more money for somethings we should have already gotten.

And what would that be? What we should have got already with H5?

Mytical, how do you define an original Heroes game? It seems this is the main concern we are talking about here.

[Mytical]

Well lets see. Caravan should have already been included at minimum. Also, as I said an engaging storyline (not just some rehashed version that we have done so many times). As for spells (that I truely think should have been included in the non-expansion section) here is but a small list.

(Fortune, Mirth, dragonslayer, can't remember the spell name (just because I do have a terrible memory) the one that let people see the number of creatures ect in a neutral army) think it was visions?, Counterstrike (yes I know there is a town special that does basically the same thing). Also we are missing the Might and Magic aspect of Heroes of Might and Magic. The specials of the heroes are all well and good, but there should have been heroes in each whoes skills would have been more geared toward either/or also. It is Heroes of Might and magic right? Not just Heroes...or am I wrong? More then just a handful of artifacts. That about covers it for me, but I know others can add to this.

An original HoMM remains true to its foundation (I will grant that) but adds new creatures, new artifacts, a different and engaging story, doesn't strip away some of the more creative parts from the old series, but enhances them or adds more usefullness. More intersting and engaging spells. Unique specials and abilities (I grant there are some in h5).

Now h5 has some interesting things, I am not saying it doesn't (which you seem to be confusing here). It does have new skills which I am happy about, it's graphics are great (but sorry this franchise isn't about graphics), some of the new (yes I said new) creatures are decent and interesting. But please don't sell me a buick and tell me it is a rolls royce. All I am saying is, that for $60 dollars, a little bit more would have been nice. I could have spent my $60 on a vastly superior Elder Scrolls, but since I love HoMM I spent it on the franchise I like so dearly. Now should it be up to the standards of Elder Scrolls, of course not. This is a TBS while that is a RPG and there are vast differences. But better...indeed it could have been way way better.