MM7: I'll start my first "No Elemental magic" game

[UndeadHalfOrc]

So after my first 5 straight games (one was with 3 characters instead of 4) I'll try playing a game with no Ranger, Sorcerer, Druid or Thief.

With MM7View I already buffed up some monsters/dungeons to make the game harder

I'll be going Dark. So damage spells will be available to me later on.

I already decided I'll include a Knight, Paladin and Cleric.
What class should be the 4th character?

[Phobos]

I'd pick a Monk. They can use some self magic and fight like crazy. If you don't want one, you could always pick another cleric...

[ChancytheChinchilla]

I had a monk for MMVII and she was great. did alot of damage, actually made the hammerhands spell useful. and even better when fighting things like titans no armor or weapons to break. (except leather armor which really wasnt needed anyways).
after playing VI and VII, in my opinion might is stronger than magic.
magic can do very high damage for some spells, but mana is finite and will run out and there are resistances.
but you can always keep swinging your weapons. some attacks can do 100+ damage non stop. (like my monk)
i just finished MMVII and for the last part of the game i gave up on casting spells and ran up to titans and dragons and just hit them. (i think it was mass distortian that finally got me fed up with magic, it seemed monsters saved for minimal or zero damage more than half the time. the other half, the spell was a waste of alot of mana)
i hack and slashed my way to the end of MMVII without using any magic. those pesky high tech robots went down very quickly with a pair of hands, mace, sword and staff.

[HodgePodge]

So after my first 5 straight games (one was with 3 characters instead of 4) I'll try playing a game with no Ranger, Sorcerer, Druid or Thief. …

You're a brave soul. I also think a Monk would be best for this type of game, although I would go with Light Path so you can use those wonderful Day of the Gods & Day of Protection spells. But that's just me.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Well I went Light my last game, so it's out. I like to alternate. Plus, Dark will give me access to better offensive spells. My elemental resistance will downright SUCK, but oh well. I guess I'll have to learn to use these elemental resist potions

And I used Monks quite a bit, and I'm getting bored of them, and I won't need more than 2 Clerical magic users.
I'll probably use a second knight. That one will be special in that he will never invest a single point in ANY weapon skill - only armsmaster. It will be interesting to see how he fares vs the other knight who will be a Dwarf specializing in Axe (and armsmaster). He might end up using a two handed sword after all - the Elf Slayer.

For me, I think the hardest spell to live without will be Enchant Item, as I tend to abuse the HELL out of that spell every game. Hello, Knight with +17 Armsmaster Gauntlets, Monk with +15 Unarmed Ring and +15 dodging belt, and Wizard with +78 combined bonus hit points!

[HodgePodge]

Well I went Light my last game, so it's out. I like to alternate. Plus, Dark will give me access to better offensive spells. My elemental resistance will downright SUCK, but oh well. I guess I'll have to learn to use these elemental resist potions

And I used Monks quite a bit, and I'm getting bored of them, and I won't need more than 2 Clerical magic users.
I'll probably use a second knight. That one will be special in that he will never invest a single point in ANY weapon skill - only armsmaster. It will be interesting to see how he fares vs the other knight who will be a Dwarf specializing in Axe (and armsmaster). He might end up using a two handed sword after all - the Elf Slayer.

For me, I think the hardest spell to live without will be Enchant Item, as I tend to abuse the HELL out of that spell every game. Hello, Knight with +17 Armsmaster Gauntlets, Monk with +15 Unarmed Ring and +15 dodging belt, and Wizard with +78 combined bonus hit points!

Well, in that case, I'd go with 2 Paladins & 2 Clerics instead of Knights. Or maybe 1 Knight, 1 Paladin & 2 Clerics. Or 1 Knight, 2 Paladins & 1 Cleric. Clerics are pretty good fighters, even if they can't use sharp weapons & Paladins can become pretty good healers too. Both Clerics & Paladins can become very adept at using a Mace.

If you're not going to give your Knight any skill points in weapons, especially Sword, you are really handicapping him. Sword & Spear are important weapon skills & only Knights (Champions or Black Knights) can get GM Level. While Armsmaster is also a great GM skill for Knights, it's not gonna be very useful if your Knights can't level up in weapons skills. I think you will need their Sword and/or Spear expertise (especially Sword) later in the game … maybe even early in the game.

Anyhow, play the game the way you think is best. Good luck and keep us posted with your decisions & progress.

[HodgePodge]

To UndeadHalfOrc: I put this post in the wrong thread:

If you're not going to have any Elemental Magic or Resistance either, I'd make sure all of my characters could get as many HEAL Spells as possible. Instead of a Knight, I'd go with a Paladin. But that's just me.

A Paladin can get to Expert in Armsmaster and can GM in Mace; Clerics can eventually achieve Master Level in Mace. A high Mace Skill also has a good percentage of paralyzing your opponents. Both can get to Expert Level in Bow too so you'd have a fighting chance of winning most battles.

I'd reconsider not giving any points in Weapons skills. That sounds like suicide to me. Armsmaster isn't very useful if your fighters don't have at least one good weapon skill.

I'd choose a particularly computer friendly party, consisting of PC PC. They'd all be capable of using Bows & Mace for combat, Shield & Chain for defense. Plenty of Healing, Curing & Bless spells too.

There are a quite a few offensive spells in the Self Magic Arsenal (Harm & Flying Fist - Physical Damage) (Psychic Shock & Mind Blast - Mind Damage) (Spirit Lash - Spirit Damage in close encounters). And don't overlook the ever so popular Mass Fear, Berserk, Charm, Turn Undead & Enslave.

Then, you can always hire a Gate Master & a Wind Master for the Town Portal & Fly Spells. You should probably search for a few Rings of Disarming too.

Good Luck.

Really confused the poor guy in the other thread too.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I think I need a break from MM7

I think I'll play Baldur's Gate 2 or Might and Magic 6 again

[Sir William S Titan]

I started a no-element party recently. Pretty fun, actually. Three knights and a cleric. Completing the walls of mist was pretty hard. Other than that, hardly a problem.

This is, however, easier than my all knight party. Lots of complications with that group.

[Mazzy]

I started a no-element party recently. Pretty fun, actually. Three knights and a cleric. Completing the walls of mist was pretty hard. Other than that, hardly a problem.

This is, however, easier than my all knight party. Lots of complications with that group.

That's a pretty challenging party you're playing. I have thought of making one such as yours, but i'm afraid i would give up rather quickly, and feel quite frustrated without Lloyd's beacon etc... don't you have similar impressions ?

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Actually my third game was Knight/Knight/Paladin/Archer, on the Light path.

Lloyds's Beacon was hardly missed. I went by just fine with Master Town Portal from my Archer. The only time I wished I had it was when half of my party was dead, and that was solely because I didn't have Protection from Magic at GM level and Titans one-hit-killed me. It was a hell of a fun game, though. Tolberti, while he could have eradicted me due again to lack of GM Prot Magic, was a breeze since he went down in 3 seconds from my awesome melee power

Clearing the Pit was fun too, since all my characters had the hit points to survive Dragon Breath, and two of characters were blasting Turn Undead constantly

[dcinroc]

I once played an (almost) all Might party. Knight/Thief/Monk/Cleric with no points spent on the Thief or Monk's magic skills. I took the Light path and it was actually pretty easy...though not having Town Portal and Fly could be a bit tiring.

IMO Light Magic is best suited for a migt oriented party anyway. Most high level monsters can resist elemental magic, so my Arhcmage is around mostly for adventure spells. I think an all might party will have a much tougher time walking the Dark path.

The toughest to play is the no Self Magic party. Your whole group will spend all their time drunk, insane, cursed, or dead.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

I think an all might party will have a much tougher time walking the Dark path.

That's what I plan on doing on my (not yet started) no elemental game, going dark. Vampiric Weapon is a great spell, though, for melee oriented characters. I have to admit that I'm playing my modded skills MM7, and my Villain will be allowed use of Dark magic to Master level, making it possible for him to cast Shrapmetals and Dragon Breaths (though he won't have the mana to cast it constantly like a Lich).

The biggest weakness of all is that I will have to rely heavily on white potions "of resistance" for fire/electrical/cold resist.

The toughest to play is the no Self Magic party. Your whole group will spend all their time drunk, insane, cursed, or dead.

I'm doing a no self magic party next. Status removing potions are pretty convenient and cheap to make. Drunk cannot be cured by any magic anyway, and Stoned is cured by Earth magic. And most good self magic boosting spells have potions, too (Bless, Heroism, I'm looking at you)

[BMJedi]

This idea makes me think how tedious travel would be with no teleport spells.

Also, don't you have to have a Fly spell to get to a few important areas?

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Gatemasters NPCs for TOwn Portal!

As for Fly, most areas can be "climbed" - hold up and jump (X) continually. Works most places in Bracada desert.

And if there are a few unaccessible, there's always Windmaster NPCs or Fly scrolls.

[BMJedi]

Undead HO, I see what you mean about substituting Alchemy skill and buying scrolls and potions in place of actually casting the spells. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that it seems like it would be tedious, at least to me. I'm not a fan of attack magic, (too much of a Yodaphile, I guess), but I love magic for its convenience and protection/healing.

Also, since the shop inventories are random and only respawn periodically, I would hate to be too dependent on buying condition-removal items. What if you have really bad luck, and the shops just don't provide enough potions/scrolls of Remove This, That or the Other Dreaded Condition? What if you use up so many reagents creating white potions that you can't find the right colors at the right time?

Still, I'm all for experimental parties. I find the whole endeavor fascinating.