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Features → Walkthroughs  → Tribes of the East → To Honor our Fathers → One Khan, One Clan

by maltz

To Honor Our Fathers
M2: One Khan, One Clan

  • Map Size: Large
  • Level Cap: 20
  • Difficulty Index: 5/5
  • Last Updated: November 9, 2007, Patch v3.0

    Similar to the previous campaign, we will develop the other main hero, Kujin the Shaman, in the second mission, starting from level 1. Kujin's mission is to convince a total of four clans to join the new chief Gotai, by reaching the gate of their respective Stronghold towns (A-Orange, B-Brown, D-Green and C-Teal). It has to be Kujin to do the negociation.

    That's sounds pretty easy, because there is no fight necessary at the castle gates. Well, In fact this is an extremely difficult mission on heroic for the first month! This is a Mission 1 with Mission 4 enemies! I am not even sure whether I can pull it through again. Therefore, I will try to cover everything that I did in detail, assuming heroic is what you are on. If you are playing on a lower difficulty, you can be more liberal and probably reach the goals a lot faster. There may be alternative strategies, which I will leave it for you to explore.

    The Moon Blade(Attack +3, shield slot) artifact is the best starting bonus among the three. The creatures aren't bad but the Moon Blade is going to help you most.

    You start out with Kujin's little army at (1). Just a little to your east is a Redwood Observatory that reveals the nearby Orange town (A). Now if you walk over to the town's gate, the town will automatically join you. Easy first town! You also get a free hero, Toulain, who won't get carried over to future missions.

    Toulain comes with some upgraded creatures that does not mix with Kujin's. You are probably thinking of combining them - so which of the upgrades are better? For tier 1 go for the Goblin Trappers. Tier 2 and 3 is a choice between offense and defense. A simple rule of thumb on a tough heroic mission is to focus on Attack. Normally, if you let your enemy's big stack to hit you first, you are taking unecessary losses. Therefore, go for the Centaur Nomad and Mauler for tier 2-3.

    However, when I played the mission (heroic) I purposely delayed my visit to the Orange town to Day 1, Week 2. Usually I don't like to waste any turn, but our situation here is special. There is NO other place (other than the easy Sawmill) we can afford to visit during the first week even with Kujin & Toulain's starting creatures combined. I got torn apart even by the Ore Pit stack! The neutral stacks guarding the resources are just nasty - lots of shooters and casters. Here comes a list:

  • (W) Sawmill: The easiest.
  • (O) Ore Pit: These Wind Dancers are fast! There is no way you can take it during week 1 without losing a good portion of your Centaurs.
  • (M) Mercury Lab: The Berserkers here seems to be relatively easy. In my game, though, the first Brown hero handled them before I get a chance, so I got a free flag later on.
  • (C) Crystal Mine: Guarded by Druids. You can't touch it until much later.
  • (S) Sulfur Pit: The neutral stack is nothing serious, but there are powerful blocking stacks preventing you from reaching it. Wait for the first Brown hero to clear the path for you.
  • (G) Gem Lab: Guarded by Hunters. Even if the brown clears the path for you, you still want to stay away from it first. However, you do need more gems to build the structure needed for the Capital (4000G/turn).
  • (Gold) Gold Mine: Lots of tier-5 dwarf mages? This is the last thing I want to flag on this island! I want to keep my Centaurs!

    As you can see, there is nothing we can do in Week 1 after flagging the Sawmill. If you claim the Orange town yourself, you are going to spend resources from your own account to build it up. There is a guaranteed net loss of everything for sure. Why not let the Orange AI (on heroic the AIs are millionaires from the start!) build it for you - for free? The picture on the left shows what I got on Day 8. I kept my strating 10,000G and 5 resources of each. Pretty nice!

    So why do I claim the Orange town on Day 1, Week 2, but not later? Well I hoped so originally, but whenever we convert a town in this mission, all of its current garrison armies are erased (including roaming heroes out there). The AIs automatically hire available troops at the beginning of a week, so if I wait longer, I would lose the second week growth of creatures (I already lost the first week production, 13 Centaurs). That's not a good thing because tough battles are coming soon.

    Actually, the first Brown hero is coming during week 2, carrying quite a large army. There is no way you can keep waiting. You need the town's defense to even survive.

    The first thing after taking the Orange town is to go north. Just north of town (A) you can find a level-3 Spell Shrine, along with an artifact of the Enlightenment set (E1). The stack guarding it is pretty easy. By visiting the shrine you instantly jump to level 4!

    The free Orange hero (Toulain) starts with the War Machine skill. This used to be a junk skill, because when your army grows large, the power of the ballista becomes negligible. Not anymore - did you see what Orlando's Ballista can do? It killed my 30 Ghost dragons in one firing round - that's even more powerful than a full tier-7 stack! You can also reach that power with Expert War Machine (Ballista - Triple Ballista) + Attack (Archery - Flaming Arrows). Flaming Arrows ignores target's defense - that's what makes the Ballista so powerful.

    With this Ballista of 1500G, every low-army hero suddenly becomes a walking weapon of mass destruction. The enemy can't even Frenzy / Puppet Master / Slow the little guys operating the War Machines because they are controlled by yourself. The earliest possible level for Toulain and Kujin to reach flaming triple Ballista is level 9. But you have to be ultra lucky to get proper feats of War Machines and Attack to show up for Kujin early 8 levels in a row. But if that really happens, use Kujin as your main hero. Otherwise use Toulain. You will have more than enough EXP later to push Kujin to the level cap.

    p.s. In this expansion (v3.0), every race can get Flaming Arrows and Triple Ballista. According to the excellent fan manual, the power of Ballista is proportional to the sum of the hero's Attack and Knowledge, so even a magic hero can do a lot of damage with it. (Now you know why I recommend the Moon Blade artifact - to make your most deadly weapon even more powerful.)

    On heroic, honestly there is probably no other way than Triple Ballista + Flaming Arrows for this mission. Your army is too weak and the challenges are too tough. You cannot afford better creatures unless you flag the mines - but you cannot because you will be shot to pieces. When I cleared everything I could in my quarter, Toulain was level 10 and the really tough battle came. This means you can mostly throw away ONE useless skill point on something not on the path.

    Right after the Shrine level up, head down to visit the Cript just east of Town (A). You should be able to beat the undeads here rather easily and collect a healthy sum of cash to get yourself a Mercury+1/Turn in the town. Next, go flag the Ore Pit. This is not an easy battle as the Wind Dancers run really fast. It is likely that you don't have time to protect your Centaurs even with lots of 1-unit Goblin stacks. But there is a better strategy:

    The specialty of Goblin Trappers is to set Snares. If the trap works, the enemy will travel less distance - up to 2 tiles. If the trap fails the enemy is not delayed, but the action of the Trappers stack is. The smaller your stack, and the higher-tier and larger-stack the victim is, the less likely the trap works. (See the fan manual for details.) Each stack can only have one snare. If you set another one the old snare disappears automatically.

    Now comes the beauty of probability - all of your 1-unit Goblin Trappers have a small chance of delaying the action of the elves. Even if there is a 80% chance the Elves are not delayed for each trap, the chance of the elves safely passing through 4 consecutive traps reduces to 40%. And, your main trapper stack's success chance is much better than 20%. With a series of traps accurately planted on the AI's predictable advancing route, your Centaurs will have one or two more rounds to take down the elves. Perfect victory is possible!

    A brown (Tan) hero is visiting you very soon - for me it comes in the middle of week 2, right after I flagged the Ore Pit. Pull back your main hero and give him everything to defend in town A, and move Kujin as far away from the brown hero as possible. Build the second level of wall (the one that gives you 50% creature growth bonus). Use your Ballista and Centaurs to thin down the opponent's Centaurs. Hopefully most of your Centaurs survive the battle!

    The first Brown hero has likely cleared a path for you, and there won't be another brown hero for... about two weeks. It is time to rush out and flag the Sulfur Pit, defended by slow melee units. Battle other melee stacks to accumulate EXP points for Toulain, focusing on Triple Ballista + Flaming Arrows. If you have a choice, give Triple Ballista a priority. You can find a Sextant to the west (a green X). It will be very useful later.

    Hopefully by now your Toulain has obtained Triple Ballista. We are now able to flag some harder mines defended by shooters and casters. The trick is to give Toulain 7 stacks of 1-unit goblins (give the rest of the army to Kujin first). If you enter the battle and see 4 stacks of enemies - load the game because you are going down. If you see 3 stacks, though, be happy because you'll win. Use the Ballista to kill the earliest stack that comes next. You can flag the Gem mine easily this way.

    Actually, later on you might still stand a chance if you see four stacks. When you build up the second-level "mage guild" in the town, you might get the war cry "Fear My Roar". By showing your ugly teeth and probably releasing a foul breath, your can seriously scare off your dentist, er I mean an enemy stack. It starts to run amok and and its next action is also delayed significantly. (Thus, the victim stack cannot shoot at your 1-unit Goblin anytime soon.) The chance of this war cry's success is related to your hero's level and the stack's tier and size. Your hero has to be at least level 6 to learn Fear My Roar, the most useful war cry for quite a while.

    It is now also the right time to clear the stack of wolves (3) blocking the alternative way to your town (A). The wolves are really annoying because they can multiply at point blank. There is a pair of Boots of Swift Journey (green X) just beside the wolves, guarded by more Druids. In my game the druids were always 4-stacked and I had to pick it up much later. Similarly the Crystal Mine may be managable now. The Gold Mine is still too tough because each dwarf stack can take two ballista shots. Indeed, it is possible to flag each of the mine if you are willing to make sacrifices - but I don't think the gain is worth it. Your tough battle is coming soon and you need to have as many Centaurs as possible.

    In the beginning of Week 4, the second Brown hero was on his way. This time they bring a much larger army. Should you still defend in the town? You can certainly win that way, yet in my game I saw a good chance to break loose here - let's take a look at this picture.

    There is a lot of pressures early, almost too much!

    The AI of the Brown hero has its priority set at a weak Kujin only if Kujin is (almost) within his reach for the next turn. I was able to use Kujin as a bait and lure it to travel in a big circle. The chase was really close - the Brown hero was touching Kujin's back! In the meantime, Toulain purchased everything he could afford from town (A) and head straight to the Garrison (4). You must pass through this garrison to reach the brown town, and the garrison army was twice as large as everything I had (and I took troop conservation to the extreme, you know)!

    You need a lot of luck for this really difficult battle. Hopefully you have let Toulain visit some morale/luck bonuses. Traps, Fear my Roar, Luck, Morale, enemy's movement... you can easily lose more than half of your army if more than one huge stack reaches your front. Shoot every major stack that comes close, and swarm up if that does not expose your good stack to a fatal blow. It is likely that you will lose a good portion of your army (and take very heavy loss if you are unlucky). Yet this is probably the most difficult fight of the mission! Still, try to conserve you Centaurs as much as possible because there might be another tough battle coming immediately.

    Now, quickly have Kujin visit the Brown town (C) to get yourself a second free town (I made it on Day 6 of Week 4.) The chasing brown hero evaporated and you get a (almost) full-built town. Suddenly, you are the most powerful clan on the map! Victory is just a matter of time - yeah? NO.

    In some people's game, the Teal hero is going to invade you very soon with a very big army. When the Teal army comes, you can see it travel north on the mountain pass just east of your town B and enter the one-way portal (II). The portal carries the Teal hero to (II'). Two turns later it will reach town (B).

    From the mission script it seems that the Teal invasion is activated on Day 24 on heroic (Day 3 Week 4), but it never happened to me until one full month later. Maybe I was just lucky? So what should you deal with an overpowering Teal army showing up early at (II')?

    Your only chance is to defend in town with Toulain (or Kujin if she is your main hero). Use your triple flaming Ballista to demolish the Catapult, and then shooters. Untamed Cyclops can bash the gate open, so deal with them as well. There might be Wyverns flying in - just give all you have. The Teal hero has a retreat option and he usually does it earlier than he should. The Teal army is your last tough challenge of the mission - so even if you survive with just 1 Centaur, you'll win eventually.

    Whether the Teal comes soon or not, you should explore the brown territory and take everything sooner or later (just remember to come back to defend when Teal comes.) I have a few suggestions for higher-tier upgrades:

    Tier 4: Sky Daughter is more of a caster, who also cast one more Haste/Slow. They can also cast Chain Lightning after sacrificing a nearby Goblin. Earth Daughter is more of a melee fighter. At high rage levels, Earth Daughter becomes a dominant fighting force. They won't suffer retaliations from slowed enemies as well. I recommend Sky Daughter for this mission because I simply didn't have cash to hire them from the beginning to the end - and since I have a tiny stack of daughters, I just use them to cast spells.

    Tier 5: Executioner has much more attack power, which is always good for a starter. Chieftain actually has a great strategic function that is not related to their power. Its special ability "Order of the Chief" works exactly like the Hero's war cry version, which moves forward a friendly stack's action by dealing damage to them. So what's good about killing your own troops? The Chieftains deas much LESS damage than a high-level hero. The damage dealt by the Chieftains is equal to the number of Chieftains in the stack, and the effect on the victim's ATB is Chieftain's number divided by 100, limited to 0.6 (which is to make them act more than twice as often). This means that if you have TWO stacks of about 50 Chieftains, you can whip your Cyclops (HP ~230) to shoot again and again and again and again - and no Cyclops dies yet! In my game I actually used Executioner, but in a hind sight I should have given Chieftain a try.

    Tier 6: Foul Wyvern regenerates a bit each turn, and poisons the target stack. PaoKai can damage more than one enemies but the total attack power is simply divided amont the targets. Pao Kai can also regenerate by landing on corpses - potentially you can regenerate much more this way and get your numbers back at the end of the battle. I like PaoKai (if you speak Cantonese you will find the name funny) better, because in Dark Messiah this is Arantir's Avatar of Death.

    Tier 7: Both upgrades are goblin throwers (shooters!), and the ammo is really cheap. The Untamed Cyclop makes a 2x2 area attack plus the ability to take down castle gates and towers. The Bloodyeyed Cyclop is slightly faster. Its Evil Eye ability gives the target -3 luck after being struck (melee only). In this mission I like Bloodyeyed Cyclop better, because their higher iniative usually allow them to shoot before the enemy's shooter - this is important! Whoever acts first takes the lead! The area attack usually won't happen because by the time you are going to use melee, you are using it against the enemy that has reached your front. Chances are that there are no adjacent enemy stacks. Moreoever, the smart AI can use your retaliation to damage your own troops - that's going to hurt. In this mission, you are not going to assault any gate because all towns join you automatically. Therefore there is really no need for Untamed Cyclops.

    Do not align any two Goblin stacks or they go down together!

    There are quite a few places to visit. Here comes a list:

  • A Lighthouse at (5). Just in front of it lies a Runic artifact (R1) that carries to future missions.
  • The second artifact of the Enlightenment set (E2), guarded by lots of tier-6 dwarfs. Absorb their retaliation by attacking from behind - this way the splash damage would be minimal.
  • The second artifact of the Runic set (R2) south of the little lake.
  • A Sylanna Ancient (6), guarded by lots of Green Dragons. This is the perfect place for 7 x 1 goblins!
  • A tiny stack of Cyclops willing to join at (7). You can get them right after taking the Brown town (B).
  • Have Kujin visit a town and buy her at least a level-1 Talisman (requires the Talisman building, which comes before the Wyvern nest). She will be able to cast adventure spells with it.
  • With a powerful army, you should let Kujin fight all but the toughest battles to level her up. Triple Ballista + Flaming Arrow are still great goals to go after for Kujin. If the Teal does not come and you run out of things to do, try to approach the shipyard just north of (7) but do NOT board a ship yet - in my game the Teal invasion came as soon as I did that. I am not sure whether it is just a conincidence, though. If the Teal AI still does not come, I guess there is no other choice than proceeding with the quest.

    When you are ready (for me it is 20 Bloodyeyed Cyclops), hand all units and artifacts (don't forget the Sextant) to Kujin, build a ship from the shipyard and board. Sail northeast and make a landing on the shore of the Green AI's island at (8). You have to fight another tough battle against a familiar Dark Elf hero - Lethos (remember The Conquest?) Note that as soon as Kujin board the ship, two Purple "pirate" heroes are activated, and will come to you.

    Lethos carries a huge army. Kill the the Brisk Raiders (tier 4) and the Furies (tier 2) first with your shooters (Centaurs and Cyclops, haste them first). Delay the action of apporaching Dungeon melee stacks (tier 3, 5 and 6) with snares and Fear my Roar. If you have to take a hard blow, throw away your melee units (tier 3, 5 and 6). Hopefully you can keep most of your Centaurs and Cyclops alive - they will become handy in subsequent battles. Visit the Green town (D) immediately and claim your third town!

    Here come the pirates!

    You have to worry about the two Purple Pirates next. One is Sylvan and the other Dungeon. Some people report the pirates headed to their territory (orange & brown towns), so you better start organizing a good defending army there with Toulain. However, in my game they still decided to come straight after Kujin, probably thinking they can kill her with their gigantic army.

    Actually the pirates are not as tough as Lethos - they only have about 2/3 of Lethos' strength. If they are coming after Kujin, you should have an easy time as Kujin has the majority of your army. There is an artifact merchant at (9). I was able to buy the "4th Ballista shot" - the Ring of Machine Affinity here for 20K. If the pirates are coming to your HQ and you can't hold, it is actually OK to give it up, because you can win this mission as soon as Kujin converts the Teal player. In my game I was experimenting something mean - to fill the entire shore with empty ships so there is no way the AI can land! Guess how many ships did it take?

    Before you send Kujin to visit the final, Teal town (C), there is an island west of the Green town you should visit. Land at (10) and you will find a Memory Mentor to reshuffle Kujin's skill. You can also pick up a Dragon's artifact (D1) further west, and flag another Lighthouse.

    When you are ready for the final battle, move Kujin to the shore at (11). You have to be "in the water" to summon a boat (you can still buy the Talisman in the Green town - get the level-4 one). Sail straight to (12). Summon your last batch of creatures, visit some morale / luck boosts and enter the final fight against Gork at (13). Gork has a bigger army than anything you have faced so far, but your Cyclop stack must have grown so big now that there is nothing they cannot kill!

    Congratulations for winning such a difficult mission if you did it on heroic!

    p.s. There is a set of two-way portal (III) in the Teal territory, leading to a small area on top of the hill with a Dragon artifact (the ring). However, the Teal AI got it first in my game, and I was never able to recover it. I only knew about the ring by looking at the scenario map in the map editor.

    Comments
    vil2 at 2014-07-24 10:04 wrote:
    Heroic 3.1
    I was never attacked by any Orc during this mission. Last time I played it years ago I remember this terrible mission beginning with unrelenting attacks from Brown and Teal.
    I quickly cleaned the neutral stacks and captured Brown town.
    Then I shipped towards green town but the pirates were far better than me.
    So I came back, completely cleaned the starting area, and went by ship once more with a bigger army. I attacked both pirate ships to be sure my towns wouldn't be invaded, and then I took care of Lethos.
    As soon as I moved into teal area, I oticed that teals town entrance was flooded with caravans. And then a teal hero went through the monolith and started to invade my towns. He was too slow and I was able to kill Gurok just in time.

    By the way, I never had Attack with Toulain so the flaming arrows were not for me, although he was level 12. I had triple ballista. If I had to start again, I think I would play only with Kujin and give her Toulain's ballista.

    katia0203 at 2013-04-16 00:00 wrote:
    @Maciek, I misspoke, it was week 4. I was able to blast through the garrison and take the Brown Castle in 3 weeks, so that kind of activated teal who went gallivanting into the ocean and purple followed. I let teal run around, he stayed away from both my castles since I had Kujin at the main castle and Toulain at the other with a decent number of troops. But like I said, the purple heroes just sat there and were in my way. Since I realized that they weren't going to move, I just tried to blast through them w/o success.

    Maciek at 2013-04-13 19:05 wrote:
    Katia, Teal can fight Purple. You could try to use a hero with 1 Goblin to help them do that (leave the hero somewhere near the enemy heroes). Wait, did you just write about Teal in week 3? May be possible to beat him that early, but just barely, I wouldn't advise you to try to do that.

    katia0203 at 2013-04-13 16:39 wrote:
    Here's something I didn't expect: Teal decided to set sail in week 3 and go somewhere. They came back...and purple came with them! So BOTH purple heroes got off their boats and just stood there blocking my ability to get on a boat without fighting them. Now I think I might have been able to fight one of them off with more time but not TWO of them in a row w/o reinforcements. And of course Teal is still running around near my castle too. So I just said "screw it" and tried to battle purple and only managed to ALMOST beat the first hero. Restarting now, we'll see how it goes. This was on NORMAL difficulty.

    Maciek at 2013-02-04 15:19 wrote:
    Recently replayed this mission on 3.1 heroic. The Centaurs north of town (A) didn't join me, but 18 Maulers near (E1) did (for lots of gold). On 1-3-4 my situation looked like this:

    Kujin was level 11 (I pretty much always take exp from chests) with Mentoring, Last Stand (plus prequisites), Memory of our Blood and basic Warmachines, stats 9-7-3-4, army: 4 Shamans, 76 Maulers, 73 Centaur Nomads, 153 Goblin Trappers and a First Aid Tent.

    Toulain met Kujin (Mentor), then visited Spell Shrine and Learning stone, so he was level 7 with Expert Triple Ballista and Basic Luck, stats 5-4-1-2. Add to that 3 attack from the Moonblade. Army: 7 stacks of 1 Goblin Trapper and a Ballista.

    Town (A) was level 15 with first 3 upgraded creature generators, Hall of Courage, City Hall, Tavern, Marketplace, Blacksmith and Garbage Pile. I had some 4000 gold left at this point.
    Level 2 Warcry was Word of Chief.

    As you can see, I didn't build Citadel or even Fort and made no attempt at building Capital. Citadel+Fort are quite expensive and after building them I would've had no gold to hire the extra troops. Later in the mission your towns will produce more troops than you can afford to hire anyway. Capital is not cheap either and I soon got one from Brown for free.
    I did build Citadel in town (A) much later in the mission, when I had more troops and gold, but only to get +50 Rage from Pile of Skulls.

    Toulain attacked the Garrison, got rid of most of the Centaurs there and ran away at the last moment. Then Kujin crashed through the Garrison, preserving most of her army. I think some Attack/more Bloodrage/Luck would've served me better than Defense with Last Stand. Converted brown on 1-3-5. For some reason Green, Brown and Orange (converted on day 2) didn't hire anything (I checked in Tavern and they weren't broke), but at least Brown did build up his town.

    Teal (Urghat) showed up on 2-2-4 with an army comparable to Kujin's, but Kujin was already boarding a boat with her large army. Didn't bother to attack Urghat until later, when I noticed that she had the Dragon Eye Ring and the pirates were about to kill her.

    I left Kragh with 1 goblin to defend towns (A) and (B) from Teal and later also pirates. His speciality allowed him to run when he was caught. Then I rehired him from Tavern the next day and positioned him somewhere far from both towns. AI took the bait every time and attacked Kragh instead of towns.

    Oh, and don't worry about taking useless artifacts to mission 4. There is a Trading Post where you can sell them.
    heber0101 at 2013-02-03 21:58 wrote:
    Not sure who's active anymore but just finished this mission, with help from the walkthru. I'm doing it on Normal, not flooking to be perfect. This scenario is impossible on Normal, which is mostly because the AI is cheating big time. Similar to what Shadow said. First you have to beat neutral stacks in the first 2 weeks to get resources. The stacks are tough enough to lost strength due to casualties. Even if trading troops and artifacts back and forth between Kujin (K) snd Toulain (T). So you have to wait for more castle troops. The hero spells are very weak and almost no help. So about the 4th or 5th week the area is mostly cleared out and building troops to get though the garrison. Just after clearing the garrison (first try) and taking casualties the first teal army shows up and destroys K, just before reaching Brown town. Second try I hold bak longer and Teal comes thru (does not have to fight the garrison so they are still there). I beat him, then the garrison. And get then Brown castle. I'm up to wyverns and lots of centaurs. I have triple ballista but not yet flaming arrows. And the second teal army comes thru bigger than the last.
    The blatant cheating is that Teal is sending out a strong army every week or 2 and it's way bigger than you could get from 1 town. Keeps getting stronger too. Also he never runs out of experienced heroes even though the were defeated (did not retreat or flee). I have 2 castles and can barely keep up. The only way to beat those armies is to stay behind town walls, take down catapult with shooters and ballista, then centaurs or goblins (cyclop ammo) then finally cyclops, then lastly shaman, who seem to have a lot of shooter and magic resistance.
    Finally went and learned how to apply cheats so I could finish mission. Adding wyverns or paokai or cyclops. Which you only can add to K so if you split forces as you must, better leave T well equipped.
    Not a good mission. Especially when the opponents seemed to be playing Hard or Heroic when I was playing Normal.
    Wheeler Dealer at 2012-11-26 00:29 wrote:
    I just finished the mission on Hard. I played it once before back in 2009.

    One subject that came up throughout the comments here was how to deal with Teal. I don't think that was a problem my first time. I had an old save game toward the end, the first two cities were just sitting there with a garrison hero and very little army. The garrison heroes weren't very well developed.

    This time it seemed there would be an unending stream of ever more powerful Teal armies coming through the portal. They started about the middle of the second month, soon after I took the Brown town. Kujin fought the first army outside and then defended the Brown town the next two weeks from more powerful Teal armies.

    Meanwhile Toulain was exploring the sea. He took the 3 Untamed Cyclopses and 3 warriors and explored the entire sea and got the treasure from every wrecked ship this side of Green. Purple acted very strangely. The turn after Toulain took to sea, 2 purple heroes landed but then stopped about where the cyclopses had been. Even though they had much better armies than Kujin at first, they never moved until she approached with a bigger army in week 3 of month three, then they tried to run!

    Anyway, after the first three attacks by Teal, they quit coming for three weeks or so. Kujin had finished everything that could be done in the starting area so I took her to visit Green and set the job of defending my two towns to Toulain. Almost immediately Teal sent another large army and Toulin had to defend with what could be purchased from a two week growth in the two towns.

    The first defense went very well. I used some of the tactics suggested here. Teal had no flyers so I went after the Goblins first (those 40 Bloodeye Cyclopses threw a mean goblin), then the catapult, then the Centaurs. I took some losses but nothing too bad.

    The next week there was a bigger army with a throng of Foul Wyverns. I didn't even try to defend my city from that army. I did read here about keeping the wyverns out by not leaving them a large enough landing area. I've done that sort of thing before with an inferno army but I had gated creatures to take up space.

    I led him in circles for a while and then when I got a chance took Toulain and his small army and left by boat. The original Brown hero was already long gone. I did buy and sell almost all the creatures in my two cities, you can make 10% and there are no creatures for the invader to hire.

    I think the design was to have Kujin recruit tribes, not to establish rule over the map. I think you are supposed to retreat and leave those first two cities to Teal. I'm pretty sure Purple wasn't supposed to be so docile, but what do I know?

    It was fun! Again!
    Wheeler Dealer at 2012-11-24 23:58 wrote:
    I feel a bit foolish answering a question asked years ago (it was asked more than once), but just in case..... To get the spell that summons boats:
    1. Build a Walkers Hut
    2. Click on the Walkers Hut symbol on the wheel in the lower left of the town display.
    3. Click on the first Talisman
    4. "Buy" will light up and show the cost, click on it.
    5. Stand the hero in the edge of the water and cast the spell.
    6. There must be an unoccupied boat somewhere for it to work.

    ShadowLiberal at 2012-08-19 14:46 wrote:
    OMG, I take back what I said, Brown sent their own (weak) hero after me a few days later, I took him out easily enough.

    Then teal Blatantly cheated. The teal hero I fought off earlier clearly had 10 weeks of growth from their 1 town on him. But just ONE week later they sent an EVEN BIGGER army looking like this.
    -Goblin Trapper: 350
    -Centaur Nomad: 554
    -Mauler: Zounds 539
    -Bloodeyed Cyclops: 65
    -Executioner: Horde 95
    -Earth Daughter: 361

    How do I know that teal cheated to get this giant army? I reloaded my old saves and used to reveal all cheat to watch teal, and saw that hero, and his giant army, did not exist until Month 2, Week 4, Day 2, when he appeared out of nowhere right next to his town (but not from his town), while the units in the town & the hero still sitting in town remained the same, and their army remained the same to.

    So, yeah, don't feel about having to cheat to counter the computers cheating to win this mission. I gave myself 9,999 bloodeyed cyclops and the computer ran away before making a move, then I dismissed the 9,999 bloodeyed cyclops.

    ShadowLiberal at 2012-08-19 04:13 wrote:
    Started to replay this campaign on Heroic, as before Brown did nothing.

    Teal however invaded me month 2 week 3 with a HUGE army two or three times the size of mine, just as I was finally ready to take out the garrison leading to brown. I had to reload and replay my fight against Teal FIVE times to finally get things right and beat them. A few tips from my experience.

    -Get triple flaming ballista, this was my only archer after like 5 turns into the siege. It still packed a bunch despite only advanced war machines and 85 max damage a hit.

    -IGNORE THE ENEMY CENTAURS. Focus your fire on things in these orders
    1) Wyverns (they will fly over the wall and attack multiple stacks at once their second turn, you MUST reduce the damage they inflict pronto)
    2) The Catapult (you MUST keep your castle, and the towers, intact as long as possible! This will likely save the towers for the rest of the siege)
    3) The Cyclopes (They can bust open the gate, and they hit harder then anyone else in the army)
    4) Slayers (by this point your walls/gate almost certainly have been breached, so you need to get these double attackers down FAST)
    5) Shaman, Maulers, & Goblins (melee units will be causing you more trouble now that your wall is breached, centaurs are too far out of your reach)
    6) Finally kill the centaurs

    -Sacrifice a goblin, haste all your guys and slow all the enemies.

    -Keep using Goblin traps and fear my roar to prevent the cyclopes from busting down your wall/gate as long as possible! (be careful that you don't place traps in such a way that the cyclopes runs only 1 step away from fear my roar)

    -Once the wall has been breached somewhere, go on the offensive, but expose as FEW troops to danger as possible. (by letting enemies walk on the moat and hitting them there so they lose a turn to attack, or send 2 one by one stacks to the gate to fight a cyclops blocking his allies from helping him)

    -Focus your fire power on one stack at a time, this way you can wear down their blood rage to nothing and kill them with ease. Also use goblin traps to keep units you aren't ready to kill yet away from the action (I snared the shaman like 4 times in a row while I killed the slayers, maulers, and cyclops with the rest of my army)

    ShadowLiberal at 2011-12-20 01:35 wrote:
    This mission started out frustratingly difficult, but soon became ridiculously easy.

    I played it on Hard, and Brown never did anything in his turns. The lack of opposition allowed me to build a gigantic army, enough to take out Purple's heroes, and Teal's one powerful hero.

    gimmyboy at 2011-10-04 18:53 wrote:
    Heroic 3.1. There is a way to get back the Dragon ring although the teal got it first. After you defeat Gork, don't charge the teal castle. Just pass near the teal hero standing in front of the castle and use the portal to get to the former brown territory. Here there are 2-3 teal heroes of whom one has the ring. If they hide inside the castle, this is it. Charge them and, being inside the castle, they cannot retreat so after the battle you capture all their artifacts. If they are outside the castle, still charge them and, if they manage to retreat, just wait until they are hired back from the tavern. Most of the time, after they are hired back, they just stay inside the castle so, easy mission on defeating them and getting their artifacts.
    Tip: If your Kujin finishes this mission with Expert Enlightenment, is enough for her to reach the cap level in her next mission (mission 4 in this campaign) so you wouldn't need the experience boosting artifacts anymore (the Enlightenment set). In order to avoid a bad choice of random equipping artifacts in her final battle of the game (Zehir campaign) just pass the Enlightenment artifacts (Turban and Scale Mail) to one of your other heroes, before finishing the mission, because in her next mission it wouldn't be another friendly hero to pass the artifacts to.
    Edited on Tue, Oct 04 2011, 14:59 by gimmyboy
    Satay_1 at 2011-10-02 17:00 wrote:
    I'm currently playing it on normal.
    Orange and brown are dormant. The heroes just stayed at the entrance of their towns so you have to clear everything yourself after taking over. After taking over orange on day 1 of second week as suggested I found that the town is only upgraded till level 7 (most probaly because they do not have as much resources as heroic)
    I cannot remember exactly when i took over brown but i saw one teal hero in brown territory right after i visited the redwood observatory.
    I quickly took over brown and upgrade the town focusing on centaur nomad and mauler while the teal hero is still busy exploring and flagging the mines at the bottom of brown territory.
    By the time the teal hero decided to come up to the town I have managed to gathered a considerable amount of forces myself (mostly trappers, nomads, maulers, serveral sky daughters and a few foul wyverns). I defeated the teal hero outside the town with Toulain (expert warmachines with triple ballista) even though the threat shows challenging.
    Haste your nomads and slow the approaching armies with your sky daugthers. Use the shouts to enhance your morale for faster turns so your nomads can shoot more. Try to slow down the approaching armies by setting traps. Focus your ballista and nomads at the enemy centaurs first. With haste your nomads should be able to shoot before the enemy centaurs.
    Using the above strategy I was able to defeat the teal heroes outside of the town even though they always have at least twice or thrice the size of my armies. Both my heroes reached level 20 before long.
    Purple turn was activated once I started sailing and after finding out where they came from (top left corner of the map), I quickly sail there and defeat the first purple hero. Immdiately after that I sailed back with all my armies to prepare for the next teal attack. In the mean time I saw the second purple hero sailing towards my town. After finishing off the teal hero, I quickly replenished my armies with whatever I can afford (fighting continously with so many armies two-three times bigger than my own have weared down my forces but quite abit). I have managed to defeat the second purple hero after that and this is where I stop now.

    PS: Try to visit all the bonus morale and luck points whenever possible. Pass all the armies and artifact to whoever you are using to fight and use the other two to transfer troops from town so you can get the maximum amount of troops right before you fight.
    Edited on Sun, Oct 02 2011, 15:11 by Satay_1

    Spartan116 at 2011-08-31 16:09 wrote:
    If you are referring to the above, yes. Still the teal player comes and beats me. I can't master a decent army in that time (4 month)

    Kalah at 2011-08-30 15:52 wrote:
    Have you read this walkthrough and followed the "recipe"?

    Spartan116 at 2011-08-30 14:34 wrote:
    hi , i don't know if anybody plays this game anymore but i will give it a try and ask. I can't beat this mission on EASY! so i have stopped playing the game :(. This has happened in hammers of fate and on the original homm v . Is there a way do win the mission on easy? a guide or something?

    gimmyboy at 2011-08-05 09:10 wrote:
    That's not the way to reach teal territory. You should be walking just south of the green city, in 11 position on the map. You should be in the water with horse's legs and summon the boat using the spell Vessel of Shalassa (buy the talisman in town).
    versed at 2011-08-01 00:39 wrote:
    HELP HELP HELP i have a buffed up staffed up Kujin and she is in a boat trying to get through the channel to get to teal. BUT two wrecked ships block the channel. I can't get through. How do I get rid of the wrecks? One of them was already empty of loot from the pirates, I think, the other one, I can't even get to to click on. GRRRRR

    cjlee at 2011-05-08 15:36 wrote:
    This mission is not just semi-impossible on Heroic; it is also extremely important that you get one thing right.

    Make sure Kujin ends this mission with Fear My Roar and Anger of the Horde! If you get a freak result like me, where all three towns gave exactly the same crappy spells, don't bother playing the rest of the campaign.

    I've played TOTE campaigns on Easy, Normal, Hard and Heroic by now and tried lots of different tactics and strategies. I always got all warcries at some point, so it was never an issue.

    On my latest attempt on heroic, I was struck down by the worst possible luck a barbarian can have. All 3 towns I controlled on this map gave exactly the same crap spells! (What kind of probability is that?)

    3 towns, 2 restarts, and no Fear My Roar. No anger of the horde, which can do 4000+ damage during the huge army fight in Zehir's campaign.

    On the second restart, since it took over a month to capture the second town (which also failed to reward me with Fear My Roar), I gave up - and the third town also didn't give me that spell.

    These idiots at Nival never played through the campaign, so they don't understand how an entire campaign can hinge on just a couple of important spells.

    If you don't have Fear My Roar and Horde's Anger at the end of this mission, Kujin will never have another chance to get them. That means she goes into the final battle (Zehir's Flying to the Rescue) WITHOUT the ability to scare off an enemy stack or inflict 4000 damage on Biara's huge Devil stack during her boss fight.

    That's suicide.

    I don't feel like playing this map over again... infuriating...
    StarBIRD at 2011-04-07 00:00 wrote:
    Hi, maltz, big fan of your walkthroughs, though you strike me more as a ďmagic typeĒ than a might one. Love warlocks, not so much for dwarves, hate Defense, focus much more on spells & heroes rather than your troops, right? ;)

    Well, then maybe you should try another approach with barbarians, more orcish one. It works for me.

    I have to agree with wimfrits. Itís the best to take orange town asap.
    You know what an orc hates the most? Waitings!!!
    AI never builds any expensive buildings the first week, no forts, no citadels, so in the end your net profit would be about 5000 gold, yet your lost were way much higher, 21 centaurs, 17 warriors and some goblins to hire (not 14 centaurs for you can build citadel in Week 1, and that would make a big difference in earlier game), and half a weekís time to utilize. Though I never really hired the warriors & goblins, itís good to know they were there. :p
    By taking things in your hand, you can make your town development way better.

    50+ dancers wouldnít be a problem. They marched way too fast, directly into my centaursí point blank shooting range (donít know why, they did so every time, elven arrogancy for my small army size?). With Attack & Archery, that cost half of them, and the rest wouldnít be any threat for my melee units. Shamans are powerful for hand-to-hand battles. 4 Shamans can attack about 20 dancers and stand the retaliation. Actually I took no casualties.
    I believe by taking them the second week your situation is worst, for they grow.

    Then, I flagged mercury lab and sulfur pit. By the end of the second week, I took military post, so Iíd have 4 wyverns on Day 1 Week 3. With them, the Gem and Gold mine were pieces of cakes.
    The tier-5 dwarf priests were nothing. Their plus is high HP and area attacks, which are useless against wyverns. They were much easier than the druids. Oh, I took Defense & Evasion (not my first choice either). Donít know if itíd be of any difference otherwise.
    Never took crystal mine until later. No need for the resource and didnít have the time. On the second week traded one with mercury, and thatís all I needed.

    By Day 2 Week 4, I had 13 wyverns, 43 shamans, 98+20 centaurs, cleared almost anything in my quarter, and only casualty was one goblin, which happened with the lizard riders, for I was short on cash for my capital at the time being, I believe.
    1-unit strategy helps, but only as a last resort, if you ask me, (A lost is still a lost, right?) and too defensive and passive.
    With a little bit of calculations and not so many savings/loadings, a perfect victory is not that hard to achieve.

    Then I had a choice between attacking the garrison right then and waiting for another week. I took latter to minimize casaulties, yet either way the rest of campaign was plain.

    Not taking War Machine. Never had the chance. At some point, I was even forced to consider Enlightenment branch.

    Itís a pity though that neither AI ever attacked me and Iím confident that I was able to take them in Week 2 and Week 4 respectively.

    You had me checked for twice to make sure I was on heroic (ver 3.0).
    Not a very difficult campaign if you play it more barbarian-like. ;)
    Edited on Thu, Apr 07 2011, 05:41 by StarBIRD
    xiilus at 2011-02-11 16:44 wrote:
    I've found that I stay proactive with Kujin, teal doesn't send heroes after me until late month 2 at the earliest. Just to test my theory, one time I had Kujin stand in her starting day one position for 10 days. When I arrived at the first town on day 12, teal was standing outside already. She couldn't get in because of the scripted cutscene that must take place, but as soon as I met up with Toulain she attacked. Defeated on day 12 ;) So it seems, at least in my experience, that teal attacks faster the more you slack.

    My army composition seems very different from others. I don't like wyverns and I think cyclops are too expensive for this mission, especially building dwellings for them in Toulain's town. Once I capture the second town, I sell all the wyverns and cyclopes into slavery, making a few thousand gold. In addition, this ensures that if teal captures this base early, they can't use these units against me.

    I make the most of the bonus dwellings, and usually go to sea with swarms of marauders and maulers, a throng of earth daughters, and a horde of cheiftains. The biggest difference in my strategy, though, is I use witch doctors. Some goblins must be sacrificed from time to time, but with reasonable troop conservation witch doctors can be a surprisingly mean fighting force. Add to that, zounds of them have a decent chance to defile Letho's magic.

    If teal comes for my towns, I give them up without a fight. I've defended them before, but those fights take incredibly long, sometimes up to a half an hour, and for what? To level up a hero that doesn't carry over? As long as Kujin is prepped for her sea voyage, she has no need for the first two towns. Storywise it makes sense: Kujin is trying to unite these tribes, not grind massive numbers of them into dog meat. Take all your forces with you, and keep in mind that at the end of this mission you gain the support of the teal leader, so all of his forces are yours.

    wimfrits at 2011-01-07 20:17 wrote:
    You're most welcome. No I don't mean letting Kujin go to the sea ASAP; I just mean that Toulain should take on defense duty as soon as he's able to. I think I let Kujin sail when she had about 14 cyclops but I'm not sure.

    The lvl3 shrine: you can only visit it once. The thing is: level up choices are fixed. If you choose A1 you will be offered B1 and B6 next level. If you choose A2, you will get say B3 and B5 next level. So save before Toulain levels up, choose, (save again on a different file) and then visit the shrine. This will give you an idea what level up path your choice will put you on. Then load the game.

    Kujin's army: cyclops and goblins are sufficient. Goblins for consumption and fodder (as melee cyclops >>>>> ranged). A handful of shamans to slow/haste. Chieftains perhaps but not necessarily.
    If I remember correctly I also used wyverns and sacrificed them all against Lethos. Wyverns have outlived their use anyway at this point; and the AI likes to target them. That might make Lethos a lot easier. After that, you're safe. If you face problems, you can always sail back to recruit additional units. At this point Toulain will be able to withstand any teal hero anyway.
    Wikingking at 2011-01-07 15:44 wrote:
    Thanks for your advice. I've never expected such a fast answer. So what I have to do is, that after the garrison, head to the sea with Kujin ASAP, while defend the first town with Toulain, who has all my centaurs, and a lot's of warmongers and goblins. Then what Kujin supposed to have? Centaurs are the essence of Stronghold forces. If I leave all my centaurs (about 200-250) on Toulain, can I still kick Lethos' ass without trouble?

    You've also mentioned visiting the shrine 'periodically'. Isn't that work only once in a while? I mean it gives about 2 or 3 level ups when visited, but can I return later? Or I don't get the point I think. Either way, thanks for your help, I will try your tips soon!

    wimfrits at 2011-01-07 08:58 wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that the developer's intention is that you're expelled from the first area by these teal forces, gather everything you have and take to the sea. So that could be your plan B

    If you don't want to do that, mind that teal heroes will keep coming! As you want Kujin to continue exploring, Toulain has to be charged with defense sooner or later. Sooner ofcourse would be better.
    An important factor is that Toulain gets triple ballista and preferably flaming arrows. The lvl3 magic shrine is useful to check periodically if Toulain is on the right development path.

    In the first defenses, centre fire on the catapult. Then either the goblins or the centaurs (depending whether the goblins are next to the cyclops). In time you can start with hitting centaurs and/or goblins before destroying the catapult. Some more tips:
    - do a trial battle to see in which round your walls will be breached.
    - once you gather enough centaurs, battles will be a lot more easy. Using all centaurs early on means you lose all centaurs. The trick is to use enough centaurs early to deflect fire from your warmongers but leave enough in dwellings to buy a big force later on (around battle 4). Once you have about 180 centaurs, you'll lose less than are produced (on heroic setting)
    - When wyverns enter battle, try to lure them inside the castle with a fodder goblin, steal retaliation with another fodder goblin and then hit them hard with warmongers
    - let Toulain have all warmongers and centaurs, about 3 chieftains and a handful of fodder goblins
    - you can also win with walls breached, but that's not easily explained. Battle will end with the remaining stack of enemy cyclops trying to close with your stack of warmongers.
    - if you want to get a better headstart, try my startup tips in the previous post.
    Wikingking at 2011-01-06 21:24 wrote:
    I don't know if anyone read this page nowdays, but I have big trouble completing this mission. I play on hard difficulty, and try to do what Maltz says, though in my game, thing are different.
    For example brown never does anything. He simply waits for me to reach his castle. So I waited for week 2 day 1 before reaching the first castle, to get the town upgrades. I tried to keep my troops alive as much as I could. After the week of gold (around 4th or 5th week I think) I've crossed the border, by defeating the garrison units, with reasonable losses. But. After I cross the garrison, teal starts to act with haste, and with devastating power. A very strong teal hero appears ASAP, and always seeks my heroes before confront Kujin in the town garrison, so I have to wait taking brown, and have to sacrifice Toulain. With the might of the flaming ballista, and my Centaurs, I managed to take out her catapult, and after a few more rounds and losses, she retreated. OK, I'm the man I thought. Wrong. She immediately send another hero, at least 4 times stronger than the first (and my only chance was garrison against her...), armed with 40(!) bloodeyes cyclops, and few hundred of each tier (1-5). This would be quite a fight with a mission 5 Arantir from the previous campaign, and impossible with Kujin, no matter what happens. This new hero also has 'War Machines', so her catapult is much stronger, and can take much more. Just how am I supposed to win such an unfair battle!? Please help!
    My Kujin is around level 15, with Attack (flaming arrows and Archery), Enlightment (level 3), War Machines (no ballista though), Luck (+3 on default). Actually, she's stroneger than any of the enemy heroes, but those armies are ridiculously large. Against the first teal I have about 200 Centaur nomads, 300 goblins (trappers), 150 level 3, 3 cyclops, 50 sky daughters, and 40 level 5s (not the chieftains but the other, executioner maybe, I play in Hungarian).

    I've just read below, that someone had the same 'problem' I had, against hordes of 6th and 7th tiers and zounds of lowers. I don't want to start over the campaign on normal (that would be shameful, and I have no garantee that teal weaks enough). HELP!
    Edited on Thu, Jan 06 2011, 16:48 by Wikingking

    wimfrits at 2010-07-23 08:09 wrote:
    Though the walkthrough offers some sound tips I feel it diverges from an optimal play in some crucial points.

    1. you can capture the ore pit on day 2. First time I played this map I won against 3 stacks of dancers; through a fixed sequence of moves/traps. Coming to a working sequence involves a loooooot of trial and error and pen and paper work though.
    *BUT*, recently I discovered that IF you engage the dancers with Toulain with full army, war machines and artifact AND there are 41 wind dancers or less, they will be combined into a single stack. And that makes the battle easy.

    2. you can capture the gold mine somewhere in week 2. That is, IF you capture the military post in the first week. Still no easy battle though

    A short description of what the first week should look like imo:
    d1: get Sawmill (make sure you turn a max number of goblins), pick gold from chest. d2: K upgrades goblins to trappers, transfer everything to T, T captures ore pit, K moves towards T a bit. d3: T does crypt and moves towards K, K picks up army and defeats lvl3 magic shrine guardians. d4: K moves towards alch lab, T picks up army, upgrades centaurs and moves towards spearwielders. d5: T defeats spearwielders and transfers army back to K.
    K is now sufficiently armed to clear most along the way.

    If you play correctly you should be able to buy a citadel on d6 and a city hall on d7. Easy when the first chest gives 2000 gold; else you will need to defeat the earth elementals for the second chest. And if you're extremely unlucky (like me) the second chest will give you an artifact and thus screw up your building plan :/

    A brief note on creature choices: while I agree with the mentioned heroic-attack rule of thumb, I don't think this applies to the mentioned examples. Warriors are not cost-effective for clearing on heroic so are best used in castle defense. So the warmonger upgrade is much better.

    As for centaurs; I think the 2 extra shots or the +1 speed and no melee penalty pretty much even out. Manoeuvre is pointless. That leaves +12.5% damages vs +100% defense and +10% hits. The question is when this difference in stats will be crucial in preventing army losses. Will it be vs melee units? Most unlikely. The threat comes from ranged units and then the centaur marauder is the obvious choice
    Edited on Fri, Jul 23 2010, 04:10 by wimfrits

    Kaede45 at 2010-07-08 18:23 wrote:
    I'm not sure if its just me (I do have a ton of mods installed) but for some reason, I get to day 4 of the first week, end my turn, then when Teal's turn begins the game just crashes. I ran a couple of scans on the TotE folder but they came up negative. has anyone else experienced problem, or rather, can anyone help me come up with a solution?

    Shimdra at 2010-06-14 22:46 wrote:
    Normal v3.0

    Looking back at the walkthrough it seems I didn't really follow any of the advice I would have had otherwise. Not a big problem, since I got through alright.The toughest battles were actually the sea battles (even though Lethos was technically tougher.)

    Started by taking Orange ASAP.

    Brown never sent troops. Took brown within the month.

    Teal sent a hero through in Early month 2. Had to chase him to the Syllana's Ancient and lost a fair chunk of troops, but nothing major.

    Defeated all three purple heroes in one go. (Sailed north of the first island I found. One hero popped up from the whirlpool, another sailed past me the next day. Second hero was close enough to take by simply backtracking a bit.) After summoning a few cyclops took Lethos on, though I lost so many slayers in this run that I never managed to recover thier numbers.

    Final battle was fairly brutal, but again, by this time I had all sorts of numbers.

    A few things seem critical here: PaoKai, Centaur Marauders, and Goblin Trappers. Reason: Troop Conservation

    PaoKai don't automatically regenerate and their attack is divided amongst nearby troops, but they can eat a dead stack to recover more numbers than regeneration can. This makes them excellent blocking troops for the Marauders or forward strike units. Marauders have more defense than the other centaurs and suffer no melee penalty. This means they will always do full damage (especially since enemy troops will always be harassing them) and more will survive by the end of combat. (By the end of the mission I had about 500 of them.) Goblin trappers have a chance of reducing the movement of enemy troops. Strategically placed, a trap can prevent an otherwise deadly stack from making a mess of your carefully placed units across the field, giving you more time for Marauders to one-hit-wonder large stacks.

    I was so disappointed to start mission 3 with such a weak Gotai! If only Kujin were here...
    dot44 at 2010-05-15 20:14 wrote:
    I don't know what the Talisman is but I have been waiting at the wagon for a year with both Heroes. I assume Kujin is the one but it never seems to show up.
    dot44 at 2010-05-15 17:55 wrote:
    Like many before, have not been able to get the talisman so that I can summon boat...very frustrating!!

    Maciek at 2010-01-07 16:34 wrote:
    The thing about teal is that they don't always attack you periodically. For one, they attacked me once only(week 6, day 5), but my battles with gotai from here:
    http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20003817/pack_of_replays.zip
    should give you an idea of how to use last stand and 10 vywerns to (hopefully) beat teal with a small army, so you could use a large one to explore.
    btw. Does anybody know what actually triggers numerous strong teal attacks? I'd like to beat them sometime in the future and for this I will need to get them to cross that portal.
    Naki at 2010-01-06 20:02 wrote:
    I have a problem. The walkthrough never mentions that after some time, Teal heroes come each 1-2 weeks. This way, how do I set sail with the boat? Won't I lose both my towns this way? I have two towns and each 1-2 weeks Teal comes with a big army, and I must defend in the town or suffer heavy losses.

    Maciek at 2009-11-14 17:46 wrote:
    Telsek has one advantage over Kujin as a main ballista early on - he can do hit & runs! This way, for a couple thousand gold and with 7x1 goblins, I got rid of but all centaurs in the garrison and guided a brown hero back to his territory(the first brown never came at all; it was one mentioned as second in the walkthrough). I guess using hit&run on gold mine protectors(and then killing off the rest of them) might pay back, but did't try it myself. (don't know, how many wyverns u need vs those tier 5 dwarves - last stand might help here)
    Fangorn at 2009-10-21 21:24 wrote:
    Uff i just finish it on heroic. That kind of play i like! No easy walks or choices everything must be perfect even single move! I didn't loose even goblin (got some more past sawmill) and open almost all mines ect expect gold and red gems where casters are too powerfull at start. My first loose is under first siege where i lost 9 centaurs only. I don't play hero here but want to show - it's not so hard or impossible map. Tactics, snares and shouts can do wonders :) Pirates can be defeated by.. balista and about 40 low units to hold range fire. Just burn catapult to ground. Worse with warlock and his spell but some circles around forest and teleports to have time (troops) and viola!

    Thanks for great walks maltz, i just wnat to inform you about that lost artifacts (part of set) Like we know Tan player take it. I fear it's possesed by chief or maybe in some fact deleted with other colour t/o heroes. But after some huntings last tan 'normal' hero was die. I kill them with neckle of war or in town, so i 100% sure they didn't got that sets. But leater i see again one of killed before heroes (maybe that first - woman orc) is hired again by AI I lure him to city and siege - artifact are mine.
    Edited on Wed, Oct 21 2009, 17:34 by Fangorn

    Grail Quest at 2009-08-23 18:05 wrote:
    This is a very irritating mission because it is so boring -- on Normal, anyway.
    Gotai's missions 1 and 3 are rush rush rush. It seems that Kujin's mission is the long drawn-out one to let you properly play around with Stronghold units.

    On normal, everything is mostly passive. If you wait too long, Teal will come for you via a one-way portal, but that many many weeks off.

    On Normal, I think what's supposed to happen is:
    (1) Take first town and twiddle your thumbs.
    (2) Got enough troops? Smash through either the wolves or the sylvan archer/blades without losing everything, then take the garrison guarding the second city.
    (3) Gather your units and set sail.
    (4) Oops. Lethos too strong. Lost your army? Lost your first two cities? Nevermind, because you start from scratch again with city #3.
    Here, you can reload to amass a whopping huge army before setting sail. Purple is static in size because they can't muster reinforcements.
    Now you've set sail, many weeks later. Oops, Teal teleports in. Left any troops at home? Hope so. Otherwise, you've lost your cities. Again.
    (5) Build, build, build, Amass another army. Cruise through the neutral stack barring the way to the next shore and set sail for Teal. Get army smashed by script hero and garrison. But no problem, Teal will join you without a fight.

    Urgh. Boooring.
    ant at 2009-06-13 23:54 wrote:
    hey new to this site and i love the walkthroughs!! gives me new ideas and stuff i missed so i can play through them again and stuff.. a trick i used on this map when i first played it was to block the portal below the second town to prevent teal from coming! after that, the map was a piece of cake (except lethos) and i could take my time and explore the rest of the map. i'm not sure if it was mentioned already as i didn't read all the comments but i didn't see it so thought i'd mention it!

    oh by the way, anyone know if the artifact merchant only sells artifacts that AREN'T a part of a set? it seemed like that to me... i figured if this was like the necro campaign, i would carry over artifacts from a set so after i cleared everything and was waiting on teal's doorstep, i had another hero camped out at the artifact merchant to try to get some more artifacts, and it seemed like they only sold artifacts that weren't from a set. (i gave up after about a year! :)
    ant at 2009-06-13 20:01 wrote:
    sorry for multiple posts, i tried to edit and it did some weird stuff
    ant at 2009-06-13 20:00 wrote:
    hey new to this site and i love the walkthroughs!! gives me new ideas and stuff i missed so i can play through them again and stuff.. a trick i used on this map when i first played it was to block the portal below the second town to prevent teal from coming! after that, the map was a piece of cake (except lethos) and i could take my time and explore the rest of the map. i'm not sure if it was mentioned already as i didn't read all the comments but i didn't see it so thought i'd mention it!

    oh by the way, anyone know if the artifact merchant only sells artifacts that AREN'T a part of a set? it seemed like that to me... i figured if this was like the necro campaign, i would carry over artifacts from a set so after i cleared everything and was waiting on teal's doorstep, i had another hero camped out at the artifact merchant to try to get some more artifacts, and it seemed like they only sold artifacts that weren't from a set. (i gave up after about a year! :)
    ant at 2009-06-13 19:59 wrote:
    a***
    Edited on Sat, Jun 13 2009, 16:00 by ant
    ant at 2009-06-13 19:53 wrote:
    hey new to this site and i love the walkthroughs!! gives me new ideas and stuff i missed so i can play through them again and stuff.. a trick i used on this map when i first played it was to block the portal below the second town to prevent teal from coming! (just simply park a hero in front of the portal exit and it's blocked!) i discovered this when i was playing the necro campaign and at the end of this scenario when i was close to teal, i tested it myself and sure enough, i couldn't go through the portal when i had someone blocking it. after that, the map was a piece of cake (except lethos) and i could take my time and explore the rest of the map. i'm not sure if it was mentioned already as i didn't read all the comments but i didn't see it so thought i'd mention it!

    oh by the way, anyone know if the artifact merchant only sells artifacts that AREN'T a part of a set? it seemed like that to me... i figured if this was like the necro campaign, i would carry over artifacts from a set so after i cleared everything and was waiting on teal's doorstep, i had another hero camped out at the artifact merchant to try to get some more artifacts, and it seemed like they only sold artifacts that weren't from a set. (i gave up after about a year! :)
    Edited on Sat, Jun 13 2009, 15:59 by ant
    Dharlee at 2009-06-10 04:33 wrote:
    Hi I am new to your site and I must say it is amazing! Please bear with me, I am an old lady lol and have to play my game on easy. I so admire you guys for doing this the difficult way! My question here (and possibly I have just missed something?) is how on earth do I GET to Teal to make it stop? He is driving me nuts on easy and now purple is in on it :/
    Thanks in advance for a response (and for not flaming a gaming granny!)

    Edit: My heavens my avatar is a man!
    Edited on Wed, Jun 10 2009, 00:34 by Dharlee
    VAMPSVSZOUNDS at 2009-06-03 17:01 wrote:
    I play now the mission at hard.I would never take Brown garrison in week 4(I don't even remember having flame Ballista) without a Week of Conjunction(3xresource,3xcreature),bec I had 19 wyverns,some horde of Shamans,some lot of Slayers,80 Nomads,some Maulers and 150 goblins(upgr).Around the end of Month 2 I had a 'lovely' Urghat.Some 20 Bloodeyes,35 Paokai,150(?)Sky Daughter,100 Executioners en 250 Marauders.I had:6 Bloodeyes,15 Wyverns,unknown probably lots Slayers,115 Shamans,35 Maulers,200 or somewhat that Nomads and 400 Goblins(Trappers).Luckily I had Flame Ballista,cuz it almost always killed 1 Cyclop(useful late) or 21 Centaurs.Had a lev 15 Kujin(helps vs Ciclops,luckily they weren't the 400 in ToTE C2M4).Barely survived with 150 Goblins and 1 Bloodeye.Thanks to 40 joining shamans at (S)and Rage=strong Bloodeye.Happily Paokay=easy kill due to no Rage.Developed Triple Flame afterthat.
    sylvanllewelyn at 2009-04-17 03:20 wrote:
    The teal heroes and their large stacks every week are clearly a level design feature, not a bug in the script. The purple pirates will be trivial if you have 20 untamed cyclops.

    jubei at 2009-03-11 10:56 wrote:
    and why is my avatar not visible

    jubei at 2009-03-11 10:51 wrote:
    bocfan, the same thing happened to me, i had to wait for almost a month to build an army for 2 heroes - kujin to go ahead with the mission and Toulain - i've managed to win one battle with Toulain and finally give him flaming ballista, after that he was coming back to town only to pick up more troops , i left him next to the exit of teal's AI portal

    jubei at 2009-03-10 10:24 wrote:
    i tried it on normal, flagged almost all mines in first month, on 6th week i had a visitor - azure player, army five times bigger than mine, and thank you maltz for the tripple ballista trick, i reached it at level 12, without it i would not stand a chance against them, the trick is to destroy catapult first, it took me 4 rounds, then, the centaurs, after that i only waited for half an hour waiting only for my hero , ballista and one remaining tower to strike, when ballista ran out of shots there was only fiew sky daughters left, i lost only 30 % of my army
    bocfan at 2009-02-25 21:25 wrote:
    Does ANYONE beaten the recurring teal scenario? He comes every two weeks and I don't have enough time to go fight the Green player. It seems I am doing something to trigger the scenario. I can easily beat Teal the first time.
    csarmi at 2009-02-03 14:27 wrote:
    The Ore Pit CAN be taken with acceptable losses quite early. You need about 20 warmongers, 6 goblins and a triple ballista and it's quite easy. I've lost a few warmongers. I apllied the very same tactic at several places. Goblins give rage + neutrals target them 1st + the occasional slow and warmongers are HARD to kill and fierce retaliation takes out stacks alone.

    BTW I took the first town on day one (didnt feel like cheating the AI to build it) and for a while I used Toulin as my main. I couldn't take the rune priests, wolves and the druid stacks fast, but the rest of the stacks was handled by warmongers. The first invading army came quite soon and brought 1 cyclops and a bigger army than mine, but it was easy to kill, al I lost was my centaurs (I lost all of those).

    My main army (except for the ballista+warmolnger fights) was usually LOTS of earth daughters, clever handling of slow/haste and killing everything with them - they are very effective (they handled the garrison with some backup). After then I killed the huge incoming army destroying the catapult and NOT killing the ballista so that the enem ynever retreated and I killd them all (with 120 earth girls).

    The rest was a cakewalk.
    The most scary purple hero was the one with 150*2 elfven archers for me.
    dups at 2009-01-26 00:34 wrote:
    where do you find the summon boat magic from?
    wzbbb at 2009-01-09 05:13 wrote:
    Great walkthrough. Just wanted to point out to people who are having problem fighing the invading armies that its very easy to defeat them if you defend inside the city. For some reason the ai always bring bloodeye cyclops, and so winning is just a simple matter of shooting down the catapult (300 centaurs can do it in one shot, otherwise its 1 shot plus a chain lightning from sky daughters), killing all the goblins and then shooting down their centaur. The ranged penalty + blood rage makes their centaurs near useless, 500 centaurs can only kill 20-30 of mine per turn, whilst my 300 acts a lot faster due to chieftains and their blood rage is drained by my towers. Once their shooters are dead, the enemy just retreats. Now if they brought untamed cyclops along, then it'd be a different story.
    gemzicle at 2008-12-11 20:36 wrote:
    So I managed to kill that pack of 500 centaurs, 800 goblins (2x 400) and 168 wyverns.. If you run into the same scenario, try to position your guys behind the wall so that the wyvern cannot land. Use Fear my Roar to scare away the goblins if the next cyclops turn allows them to throw at you. You can take some damage from the centaurs. Prioritize between killing the goblins, centaurs, catapult, and then slowly chip away at the wyverns.

    I ended up reloading to purchase Chieftains. Had two packs of 40 instead of loading up on wyverns so that I can whip my cylcops to throw more goblins. With triple flaming ballista, 200 centaurs, 15 cyclops, 2x 40 chieftains, 300 goblins, I was able to hold them off.

    Awaiting the next blue/teal hero to come with 1000 centaurs...
    Edited on Thu, Dec 11 2008, 15:38 by gemzicle
    gemzicle at 2008-12-11 01:13 wrote:
    Wow, on Heroic you really need luck to get through it or it REALLY is impossible. Here's what happened:

    Grabbed orange town, then brown town ( flagged most of the mines etc with minimal losses). I have about 200 upgraded centaurs, 20 paokais, several cyclops and about 20 sky daughters.

    1st blue invasion, I managed to get the hero to attack Toulain in the brown town. They had:

    15 Cyclops
    22 Venom Wyverns
    100+ sky daughters
    180+ centaurs upgraded
    200+ maulers
    100+ upgraded slayers
    catapult, ballista, tent

    So I end up taking out the centaurs first, then the wyverns when they got inside, and then the ballista and then started working on the cyclops. I didn't get far into the cyclops before they fled. I lost about 9 Wyverns and 100 centaurs.

    4 days go by while I'm rebuilding and there's movement on the blue side. What the? There's another? 2 days later, the hero is on my land and I managed to lure her the brown town again against Toulin.

    What a lovely surprise:

    65 cyclops
    no wyverns!
    200+ earth daughters
    400+ centaurs
    2 stacks of 350+ goblins
    * 500+ mauler
    * 500+ upgraded slayers.
    the number of the two melee packs might be incorrect, they just ran around outside of the castle wall.

    On the first try, I tried to kill the centaurs first, BAD MOVE. On the 2nd try, I took out the pack of goblins beside the cyclops first. The goblin throw from the 65 cyclops were doing heavy damage. The battle went the same way, she fled after I took out all the goblins, centaurs, ballista. I survived with only 2 wyverns and several other units. I've lost all my centaurs :(

    So here I'm thinking I'm finally in the clear. Nope. A few days later, another hero Haggrash or someone:

    75 cyclops and accompanying goblins
    168 wyverns
    almost 600 upgraded centaurs
    "zounds" of melee
    etc.. etc..

    I have no troops left. Only a few cyclops that I just recruited and a pack of wyverns. Even the almight triple flaming ballista can't do anything against them.

    How do you stop the blue from coming one after the next? This played out just like the post YerKiddin at 2008-09-23 19:56.

    Last words:
    168 wyverns? You're kidding rite. *click* Quit to Desktop
    taco at 2008-10-07 22:41 wrote:
    I'm stuck I can't summon the boat to go after Teal. The Icon stays dark for that spell...summon creatures is on but not boat.
    YerKiddin at 2008-09-23 23:56 wrote:
    This one is KICKING MY BUTT. :-( I'm only playing it on 'normal' level (ver 3.1). Most of the time, I try to play scenarios through just once, if I can. I've started this one over 4 times. Each time, I play for quite a while before any teal player shows up. (No brown or tan heroes come in any earlier, and while there's lots of time, I don't have quite a big enough buildup to allow me to break through to brown's city before teal attacks me) When teal does come in, the first army ignores my town and screams after whichever hero is out and about. The first one I can kill in the open. Then the 2nd hero, while defeatable, is mean enough to kill many to most of my army in the process. When the third teal hero arrives, I just don't have enough money to build an army big enough to take teal in the open, and I haven't yet managed to make either of my heroes fast enough that the third teal can't run him down.

    It may be that I could sit in the city (teal has never yet attacked my orange town) and build enough to go kill teal, but I worry about what the other armies are going to be like after I've waited that long. I haven't read everyone's posts (wish I had more time!) I guess the trick I haven't figured out yet is how to get teal to attack the orange town, rather than hunting down my out-of-town hero. (I've tried putting that hero at the mission start position, at the SE ore pit, and tried running him in a circle, but each time teal just goes to him (right past the town) and munches him.

    Is there a cheat code I can use to get past this one? I'm tired of it.

    It's now the 5th month and Teal keeps coming back with a bigger army every time. My first 2 heroes are now capped at lvl 20, and I can't get an army built up with the losses I take from the constant teal attacks. (I'm holding my own, but it's boring me to death!)
    Edited on Fri, Sep 26 2008, 02:02 by YerKiddin
    leeschill at 2008-06-26 15:49 wrote:
    I'm stuck I can't summon the boat to go after Teal. The Icon stays dark for that spell...summon creatures is on but not boat.
    ghostspartan6 at 2008-05-14 02:44 wrote:
    for some reason when i moved toulan(the 2nd hero u get)to the dolman of xp,the game was ok.but when i moved him back to his town the game crashed.
    Edited on Tue, May 13 2008, 22:45 by ghostspartan6
    stachnie at 2008-05-13 11:03 wrote:
    I am playing this campaign on Hard and had to restart a few times. Thanks for a great walkthrough and comments. The tips I have found most useful were:

    - wait until the beginning of the next week (but not too close to the castle, because AI often hired a second hero who went to attack Kujin)
    - Expert Triple Flaming Ballista is really great (I was lucky to give it to Kujin it at lvl 13)
    - get Vyverns ASAP (in my first attempts I tried to rush Castle), deploy only them in more difficult battles with neutrals and most of them may be destroyed without any losses, even the druids guarding a mine and artifact and dwarves guarding the gold mine
    - Powerful Blow on Centaurs + 1 shot = no more enemy Catapult
    - Fear my Roar to temporarily disable the most threatening enemy stack.

    I never used heroes other than Kujin in battles. I had no invasion of the Brown (in previous attempts it was happening at week 3) and I had just repelled Teal invasion at the end of Month 2, a week after I got Town B with a lvl 7 hero inside. It may be worth to note that I noticed the Centaurs north of town A tend to join you but only if you are much stronger.
    Edited on Tue, May 13 2008, 07:27 by stachnie

    Banedon at 2008-03-04 11:07 wrote:
    I found this mission to be fairly easy on Heroic. I was never attacked except once, and only attacked others. What happened in more detail:

    I waited for a week before taking over the first town (good tactic maltz). During this week, grab the Sawmill. Afterwards, change to Toulain as primary hero for the nonce, rushing Triple Ballista. Toulain wasn't offered Flaming Arrows, but it didn't make the mission any tougher. Make sure you transfer Kujin's First Aid Tent to Toulain, because it's the only thing that will keep your losses at zero later.

    I clear the area around the town next. Everything except the Ore Pit can be cleared with acceptable losses (I generally lost nothing). I broke out early as well (can't remember when, but it was no later then the early third week), taking the Stables and - crucially - the Stronghold Military Post. For me, the post offered Wyverns and Shamen. Meanwhile in the town build the City Hall ASAP if it's not already built, then build towards Wyverns. You can't afford any of the other creatures anyway.

    It was around this time that the first Brown hero showed up. I had to refrain from hiring creatures then (I could hire 6 Wyverns at that point) or else he would not attack me in the castle...anyway I annihilated him, again with minimal losses of some Shamen (easily replaced; you don't need too much of them).

    Then I cleared the remaining lands. The Rune Patriaches guarding the Gold Mine were easily killed by deploying just the Wyvern stack, and then constantly waiting. Same with the Druid stacks. The Wolf stack required more firepower, but was very doable as well. I upgraded Wyverns to Foul Wyverns because the regeneration was so powerful at winning these battles.

    No second Brown hero showed up, presumably because he can't win a fight on open ground anyway, so I sieged the garrison and broke through (with minimal losses again, 17 Centaurs). It was the fifth week at this point and I had 18 Foul Wyverns.

    After this I switched back to Kujin as the main hero. She doesn't really need Triple Ballista / Flaming Arrows since armies are getting larger (Retribution would be much better for her in my opinion), but I went ahead and took it anyway in anticipation of using her in a later mission when starting armies are smaller (dunno if that is the case though). Teal showed up a couple of weeks later and we fought; this was the first battle in which I suffered considerably (he had 18 Bloodeyed Cyclops + other units; me 6 Untamed Cyclops + 36 Foul Wyverns + other units). Again he would not attack me in a castle so I had to attack him in the field. I lost a lot of units but it didn't matter anyway. While I was moving Kujin around I mistakenly sent Toulain onto the boats, which triggered Purple's attack...but after landing on my soil, they just hung by the landing spot (again, presumably because my army was too large for them to beat in open combat). I gave them a week's time to attack me but they didn't, so I took the +10% hp boost and defeated the two of them. Rest of the mission was mere mop-up.

    Basically I overestimated the mission as you described it as so horrible, and played very carefully and perfectly. Turned out to be no harder than others though.
    Edited on Tue, Mar 04 2008, 06:12 by Banedon
    Twizlled at 2008-02-07 16:06 wrote:
    Okay finally!!! No worries finally finished this mission, i had to get level 4 tailsman and was using wrong hero..got it now and moving on .
    Twizlled at 2008-02-06 17:51 wrote:
    Well i been sitting at this artifact booth for over a year now and no summon boat has appeared, i have also used up all my shuffles in abilities gained.....Please dont say i have to do this all over again....All i have to do is elimate teal and im done with this part of campain plz help!!!!!! Also it will not let me upgrade to level 4 on tailsman..says it not avail this mission
    Edited on Wed, Feb 06 2008, 13:14 by Twizlled
    Twizlled at 2008-02-05 19:22 wrote:
    well it hasnt been avail yet

    Ravenheart87 at 2008-02-05 18:49 wrote:
    Didy you buy the talismans to summon boat? I know it's trivial, but sometimes everyone can forget such things.
    Twizlled at 2008-02-05 18:13 wrote:
    I cant seem to summon a boat and there is no one left to battle to build up any more of my heros.... any suggestions?
    Twizlled at 2008-02-05 17:29 wrote:
    Ok i cant seem to summon a boat why??

    Nelgirith at 2008-01-20 17:01 wrote:
    Kujin will be transfered to map 4 and then to the final scenario.
    GottaÔ will be used in maps 3 and 5 again then to the final scenario too.

    Cem at 2008-01-20 12:37 wrote:
    can you please tell me if there heroes are being transfered to other campaign
    shep61 at 2007-11-27 00:33 wrote:
    I stand corrected on the Wyverns, sorry. I agree with Maltz completely. A very well-timed, week 6, teal attack can be repelled if you already have the brown town and can get teal to attack you there and you have ballista. So, I guess if I had said "If teal attacks before week 6" (instead of week 9), we all would have agreed, since we're still saying teal needs to attack you in a city and you need ballista.

    My initial point was that I was attacked in week 4 multiple times and had to restart every time, which was completely driven by bad AI.

    Anyway, enough on this topic.
    namostmareleg at 2007-11-23 03:13 wrote:
    "Also, if you had 10 upgraded Wyverns (had to be upgraded if they regenerate)"

    No, normal wywerns do regenerate, too. Seems like to me, people haven't yet discovered their true value in early battles ;)

    "and Sky Daughters (also an upgrade), you were not in week 4."

    As i've said it was the end of week 5. But i barely lost anything in that battle, which led me to the assumption that he could be beaten on week 4, too. Not to mention the "running in circles" strategy written in the walkthrough. Oh, one suggestion: it's not worth wasting gold on building the cyclops caves since you won't nearly have enough gold to buy them, anyways.

    "I'm curious how you killed 17+ foul Wyverns with no ballista and a weak army, not to mention the 10 cyclops, 200 upgraded Centaurs, etc. Were you really on heroic? This doesn't seem consistent with what anyone here has said."

    As more people have said, you only have to deal with the wywerns and the centaurs, nothing more, since they can't come through your walls. I don't remember he had that much centaurs, but should i send a savegame for you to believe that he can be beaten or what?

    "Lastly, how can you say that you can decide where teal will attack you? He happened to attack you in the brown city. Great for you! But you didn't decide that, the AI did. More frequently, for me, he would not attack me in a city at all and just flagged everything and then attacked my other city."

    That's probably because you are too powerful for him to attack you in a town. You know, on heroic you are usually outnumbered enough for the enemy to chase you and attack you as soon as they can. So you do decide where to lead teal, actually. Later, as your army is growing, the purple boats usually try to avoid your main hero and go for the easier targets. It's all pretty simple, i have a strong feeling that the AI is not a single bit more complicated than it was back in Heroes 3.

    maltz at 2007-11-22 01:40 wrote:
    If you are much weaker than the AI they will attack you in town. So you still have a little control over that.

    The "successful stories" usually don't suggest week4-5 Teal (as their army is too good for that). The ballista may be the best solution for an 'on-time" Teal if you can take the brown town before the end of week 4 (like in my game) and hire the fresh units of week 5, and are just weak enough for Teal to attack you and lose to you.
    shep61 at 2007-11-21 20:21 wrote:
    So, you disagree with me and then agree...... You got teal to attack you in a city. I said that was necessary. Also, if you had 10 upgraded Wyverns (had to be upgraded if they regenerate) and Sky Daughters (also an upgrade), you were not in week 4. I'm curious how you killed 17+ foul Wyverns with no ballista and a weak army, not to mention the 10 cyclops, 200 upgraded Centaurs, etc. Were you really on heroic? This doesn't seem consistent with what anyone here has said.

    Lastly, how can you say that you can decide where teal will attack you? He happened to attack you in the brown city. Great for you! But you didn't decide that, the AI did. More frequently, for me, he would not attack me in a city at all and just flagged everything and then attacked my other city.
    namostmareleg at 2007-11-21 09:14 wrote:
    "So, in summary (for heroic):
    - If you can't get triple ballista and flaming arrows by the time your hero reaches level 10, you have to restart.
    - If teal attacks before month 3, you have to restart.
    - If teal won't attack you in a city, you have to restart. "

    None of this is true. You don't need ballista at all, teal hero can be beaten on week 5-6 without any serious casualties, and where he will attack you is up to you.

    "None of your strategies will work that early! One of you had 51 sky daughters and other had lots of Wyverns. Sorry, but you didn't have them in week 4."

    As i recall, i beat teal's hero with the army i had left after clearing the garrison, maybe a little more. About 10 wywerns, and something like 15 sky daughters. After i took the brown town he came immediately, i couldn't even clear the brown territory, just run a little circle for mines/gold etc. The only real difference at that point was that i was defending in the brown town, not in the orange one.

    So i suppose i could have survived an earlier teal attack, too.

    Just read, as we said, if you can kill the catapult before your walls are destroyed, you're good to go, the only stack you have to deal with is the wywerns. And if you too have wywerns, the enemy hero will probably start attacking them, minimizing your losses even further, since they regenerate. Or you can try that flaming ballista, or some other strategy.
    Edited on Wed, Nov 21 2007, 04:15 by namostmareleg
    shep61 at 2007-11-21 00:47 wrote:
    Maltz, that's exactly what happened. The teal army got stuck behind a caravan while trying to get back into the town (I assume to get more units). It was sitting there when I got there. I could tell that was happening early on as the Teal turn was very slow for most of the campaign. It didn't bother me, since that was the path to victory! :)

    So, according the script, that army is actually SUPPOSED to attack you in week 4-5??? Wow! Nice programming, Nival!

    maltz at 2007-11-20 22:08 wrote:
    Maybe there is an answer from the mission script:
    http://www.celestialheavens.com/features/walkthroughs/homm5/toe/TotE_c2m2_script.txt

    Hm wait a second, I think a lightning struck me and I know why.
    If you look at the script you can see that Teal (heroic) will start moving on Day 24, only IF:

    (1) The Harass hero is alive (given a huge army to start there is no way he can die)
    (2) The Harass hero CAN move to the portal spot

    If I remember right it is possible that the Teal caravans can actually block the town (or the garrison before it?) With enough caravan stuck at the gate, the access to the portal is possibly unaccessible to the Harass Hero to the east. As long as the Caravans keep blocking the Harass hero will never come! Did you notice this when you finally reached Teal?

    But since we have no control over enemy Caravans and sometimes they just disappear miraculously (as we will see in C2M5) to unblock the AI, you may as well call Teal invasion "randomized".
    Edited on Tue, Nov 20 2007, 17:17 by maltz
    shep61 at 2007-11-20 02:11 wrote:
    So, in summary (for heroic):
    - If you can't get triple ballista and flaming arrows by the time your hero reaches level 10, you have to restart.
    - If teal attacks before month 3, you have to restart.
    - If teal won't attack you in a city, you have to restart.

    Everyone here is telling stories about how they beat teal, which I agree is no problem as long as teal waits long enough before attacking. I was attacked by teal in week four in five consecutive attempts at this game! None of your strategies will work that early! One of you had 51 sky daughters and other had lots of Wyverns. Sorry, but you didn't have them in week 4.

    Anyway, I beat it yesterday on herioc. Teal never came at all this time!

    I'll stand by my statement that this is terrible AI that creates a randomly occurring event that requires multiple restarts no matter how good the player is.

    If anyone can figure out what triggers the teal invasion and it turns out to be something under the player's control, then I will stand corrected.

    aaelgr at 2007-11-18 20:47 wrote:
    I played it on Normal, but was able to beat the Teal hero when it came. I had to wait a while before I was strong enough, but my (Orange) town was never attacked. Got the Brown town afterwards and it was pretty straightforward afterwards...
    ywhtptgtfo at 2007-11-18 20:39 wrote:
    >This mission is ridiculously unbalanced. On heroic it will get a lot of >people to quit the campaign, IMHO. I beat it on normal, but only by >running away from Teal and losing all my initial towns.

    Err... Teal's not meant to be taken head-on. As people in the thread have suggested, there are two options:
    1) Get triple ballista
    2) Lame out the AI by killing the catapult (before it destroys any walls). This is usually done by centaurs and a few stacks of sky daughters. Attaching powerful blow with centaurs may speed the destruction of catapult.

    Gaidal Cain at 2007-11-18 11:28 wrote:
    I played it on hard, end never saw teal until I invaded him.

    Sir Charles at 2007-11-17 21:50 wrote:
    I just wanted to add something to this thread. That battle with Lethos was my first time seeing that new combat screen. The combat on the vista of the cliffside was simply beautiful. Kudos to Nival on MANY little additions that added to the atmosphere. Nicely done. (and yes, this was a TOUGH scenerio...but fun)

    maltz at 2007-11-17 21:45 wrote:
    Yes it is!
    There is a theory (from the above responses) that you can delay Teal's oversized invasion if your army size is greater than a certain ratio against Teal. From the mission script I don't see that, though. But why in my game they were late for a full month? There must be some reason.
    shep61 at 2007-11-17 19:19 wrote:
    This mission is ridiculously unbalanced. On heroic it will get a lot of people to quit the campaign, IMHO. I beat it on normal, but only by running away from Teal and losing all my initial towns.

    I followed your plan on heroic. All was going fine, but then the large teal army attacked me in the initial town in week 4! I had not yet even had a chance to get to the garrison before the second town. Even fighting teal in my town, I was slaughtered. I lost my entire army just trying to eliminate his 17 foul wyverns, who had some much speed they could attack me anywhere. He also had five other ridiculous stacks that I never even touched. Nice AI scripting!
    phinex at 2007-11-16 02:51 wrote:
    Use wyvern(from military post) to take the gold mine,keep waiting and run away if the rune patriarches cast firewall,easy job.
    I didn't learn the ballista,so annoying.

    maltz at 2007-11-15 07:27 wrote:
    Yeah earlier in Picture of the Day there is a screen shot of it. Quite a nice way for a low-level hero to bring down the war machines!
    namostmareleg at 2007-11-15 00:44 wrote:
    Hmm, strange discovery:

    If you set powerful blow on an archer and shoot the catapult even with a single centaur, the hero's melee attack, which normally does not work on war machines, will kill it in one single hit! My 4th hero, Mangu, was lvl 11 and did something like 2,3k on that catapult.

    Well, seems like the main attack of a hero is proportional to the "monster's" hit points...

    I wonder if this works with a knight's counterstrike on a shooting ballista, too?

    maltz at 2007-11-14 22:06 wrote:
    Yeah I suck in TotE. I ranked ~5th in the first two campaigns, getting some random Dwarf icon. :P

    Oh talking about the Hall of Fame... it seems that Nival hasn't fixed the glitch since long time ago. There is a back door to get Black Dragon without typing a cheat code.

    After playing through the campaign, go back to the shortest mission that you can rush in, say, a week. Rush straight to the end. You will receive very high scores on this single mission because the scores are divided by the number of days you spent (so 10 days is 10 times better than 100 days, which is only 2 times better than 200 days). The game actually recalculates the campaign score when you re-finish a previous mission, and you will end up with a new (higher) score.

    And you can always keep an "early finish" game save file while you are playing. After the campaign is over load that file and (early) finish this mission to see how much more score you can get - usually enough to move you up one rank. And you can do it for all missions this way.
    namostmareleg at 2007-11-14 21:06 wrote:
    Well if you play on heroic it's probably because you like to see yourself on the top of that hall of fame, preferably with a black dragon icon :)

    That means no passing turns without doing anything. A hero rushes out and kills everything!
    ksmckay at 2007-11-14 03:23 wrote:
    Once you battle the first teal hero you are in the clear. The purple players wont trigger until you build a boat. If you are having trbl with the large purple armies just wait and build a large enough army to beat everything. You could stay in town for a year if you wanted and then leave and the purple armies would be the same size as if you went immediately.
    namostmareleg at 2007-11-14 02:30 wrote:
    Yep, sky daughters can be the key on heroic for this mission.

    I just won the first garrison fight without any serious losses (day 5 week 5, but i took my first town asap), with basically just the daughters and my wywerns doing the killing. Well i was quite lucky, since it is a week of might'n'magic, meaning all spells costs are halved, so sky daughters can fire a chain lightning for only 8 mana. Not sure if the weeks are following each other on a random or determined basis, though.

    What i'm wondering about now is if i can take the teal town first or must go sailing, since i've only leveled Kujin seriously, and have not chosen the ballista either, 'cause i'm going for the ultimate.

    If that was the most difficult battle, then i'd say Warlock 3 in the original HOMM5 was harder. That one with Lethos, aargh. However, the second brown hero hasn't shown up for me at all, strange.
    ywhtptgtfo at 2007-11-11 12:26 wrote:
    Yes. I was lucky in that the Teal hero did not specialize in War Machine. I had three stacks of 17 Sky Daughters (Chain Lightning damage was ~240). With high morale, I was able to spike the catapult in two volleys (with help from a dozen Centaurs).

    After the catapult was done for, I took care of the Wyverns and Cyclops with Chain Lightning and Fear of my Roar.

    maltz at 2007-11-11 06:20 wrote:
    Cool. I am not sure how powerful the lightnings are because I never use it. Doesn't one have to use their first turn to sac a goblin?
    Edited on Sun, Nov 11 2007, 01:22 by maltz
    ywhtptgtfo at 2007-11-11 04:37 wrote:
    Ballista is not a must actually. When fighting against those sluts with gigantic armies at your home town, just split your Sky Daughters into 3-4 stacks and chain lightining the catapult to oblivion.

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