I missed a smiley in there.Torur wrote: Haha, how can a recommendation for being the Ubisoft president be a bad thing?
Breathing new life into Heroes of Might & Magic
Still, we removing a recognizable element from the game. Aside from that, a lot of other changes are neccesary to make things work. Changing the mana and hitpoints recovery system comes to mind. So in fact we're trying to evolve the system in numerous ways at the same time. Everything is possible, but we saw with H4 can happen when you try to change too many recognizable features at once.Groovy wrote:If you have a look at the Heroic topic on spells, you will see that it has nothing to do with patching the H3 spell system.
Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.
Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?I’d be more reserved about that. Consider dropping heroes, for instance. Would it still be a Heroes game, then?
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
I would, but I'm a sucker for popular merchandice...wimfrits wrote:Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?
I would agree with you here. I don't think there are alot of people that want huge changes to the game. But improvements on the things that we all felt where abit off.wimfrits wrote:Still, we removing a recognizable element from the game. Aside from that, a lot of other changes are neccesary to make things work. Changing the mana and hitpoints recovery system comes to mind. So in fact we're trying to evolve the system in numerous ways at the same time. Everything is possible, but we saw with H4 can happen when you try to change too many recognizable features at once.
Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.
I guess this is the crux of our disagreement. Your flaw is my core feature.wimfrits wrote:Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.
I was just trying to show that there are ‘holy’ core features, even though their existence is nothing more than a matter of commonly held personal preference borne of game tradition. Other obvious examples are towns, creatures, adventure map, combat and spell casting. They wouldn’t be core features if the fans were prepared to part with them, but that’s probably too much to ask.wimfrits wrote:Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?
AgreedGroovy wrote: I guess this is the crux of our disagreement. Your flaw is my core feature.
Well, a game called 'Heroes of Might and Magic' will naturally contain heroes that can act in physical and magic ways. If you replace heroes with cucumbers, the name should change accordingly.I was just trying to show that there are ‘holy’ core features, even though their existence is nothing more than a matter of commonly held personal preference borne of game tradition.
But the way these elements are translated into game mechanics is by no means holy. As long as sufficient features are recognizable, the majority of players will consider a game a 'Heroes' game. At least that is my opinion.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
I wonder about that. When I look at changes introduced by H3, two substantial revisions that stand out for me are of artefacts and spells. Artefact system was redesigned to make their placement on the hero relevant, allow the hero to drop unwanted artefacts, as well as combine them into composite artefacts. The spell system was redesigned to introduce schools of magic, which significantly contributed to the effectiveness of spells as the hero became more skilled.Torur wrote:I don't think there are alot of people that want huge changes to the game. But improvements on the things that we all felt where abit off.
Had I played H2 before H3, I don’t think it would have occurred to me that these two areas are in need of overhaul. They work just fine in H2. Yet putting them alongside their H3 equivalents, they look outdated.
Going back to your comment, I agree that most people don’t want huge changes to the game. But if they were to get huge changes that work well and preserve the feel of the game, I think they’d be glad to have them.
Well, I suppose that's the main complaint about H6 right now. The changings are not keeping the feeling of the game. They just are. While some features players liked were resumed, taken. But hopefully, some stuff might return, redesigned or not.Groovy wrote: Going back to your comment, I agree that most people don’t want huge changes to the game. But if they were to get huge changes that work well and preserve the feel of the game, I think they’d be glad to have them.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2.
Wimfrits, how do you feel about partially implementing the H4 hero-creature interaction, where heroes are able to move around without creatures and can join other heroes’ armies, but creatures are not able to move around without heroes. It looks to me like the best of both worlds – you still get the benefits of multi-hero combat, and heroes still act as organisational units for creatures.
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- Round Table Hero
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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- Round Table Hero
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: 05 Jul 2006
add the town/faction aesthetics/design from H2 with some sprinlke of H3.Panda Tar wrote: For a real improvement imho, a mix between town/creatures and some skills from H3 mixed to H4 hero development, and some skill schemes from H5. Blend everything and then...and then something would be born.
Drop trying to pick up every culture fro mevery time period and dump it into a big pot. Stick with something. Stick with the western/Nordic mythology feel.
Drop the samurai naga. Drop the indian elves. Drop the arabian mages.
I think that even if someone would put all the "best" things (from his PoV) into one game, even then people would whinr and moan that <feature1> is poorly implemented, <feature2> is superfluously complex and could be done in a more simple and efficient way, or that <feature3> is just plain missing.
Also, all the good things together do not guarantee success. We have tale about Doggie and Kitty, where they wanted to make a cake together. Everyone added what he liked - Doggie added bones or sweets, Kitty added milk or a fish and you can imagine the outcome...(no, they didn't die, they just had stomach ache - it is a story for kids, after all).
Also, all the good things together do not guarantee success. We have tale about Doggie and Kitty, where they wanted to make a cake together. Everyone added what he liked - Doggie added bones or sweets, Kitty added milk or a fish and you can imagine the outcome...(no, they didn't die, they just had stomach ache - it is a story for kids, after all).
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
-Ahzek Ahriman
-Ahzek Ahriman
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