Breathing new life into Heroes of Might & Magic

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
User avatar
Panda Tar
Forum Mascot
Forum Mascot
Posts: 6709
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Florianópolis - Brasil

Unread postby Panda Tar » 06 Oct 2011, 14:47

Torur wrote: Haha, how can a recommendation for being the Ubisoft president be a bad thing? :devious:
I missed a smiley in there. :D
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

User avatar
klaymen
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 532
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Piestany (Slovakia)

Unread postby klaymen » 06 Oct 2011, 16:12

Panda Tar wrote:Hey, am I being stung here? Did my personal taste hurt anyone?
Not at all, good sir. It was merely a small jab aimed at Ubisoft's care for the franchise and their competent developer teams.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
-Ahzek Ahriman

User avatar
Panda Tar
Forum Mascot
Forum Mascot
Posts: 6709
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Florianópolis - Brasil

Unread postby Panda Tar » 06 Oct 2011, 22:02

Perhaps they'll feel it. ;)
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

User avatar
wimfrits
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 2047
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Unread postby wimfrits » 07 Oct 2011, 06:53

Groovy wrote:If you have a look at the Heroic topic on spells, you will see that it has nothing to do with patching the H3 spell system.
Still, we removing a recognizable element from the game. Aside from that, a lot of other changes are neccesary to make things work. Changing the mana and hitpoints recovery system comes to mind. So in fact we're trying to evolve the system in numerous ways at the same time. Everything is possible, but we saw with H4 can happen when you try to change too many recognizable features at once.
Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.

I’d be more reserved about that. Consider dropping heroes, for instance. Would it still be a Heroes game, then?
Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

User avatar
Torur
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 209
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: Faroe Islands

Unread postby Torur » 07 Oct 2011, 07:48

wimfrits wrote:Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?
I would, but I'm a sucker for popular merchandice... :P
wimfrits wrote:Still, we removing a recognizable element from the game. Aside from that, a lot of other changes are neccesary to make things work. Changing the mana and hitpoints recovery system comes to mind. So in fact we're trying to evolve the system in numerous ways at the same time. Everything is possible, but we saw with H4 can happen when you try to change too many recognizable features at once.
Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.
I would agree with you here. I don't think there are alot of people that want huge changes to the game. But improvements on the things that we all felt where abit off.

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 07 Oct 2011, 08:25

wimfrits wrote:Aside from that, the real problem is not fixed. Hence my preference for a 'small' change that actually solves the main flaws of the heroes series instead of changes that attempt to work around them.
I guess this is the crux of our disagreement. Your flaw is my core feature. :hug:
wimfrits wrote:Who'd buy a game with 'Heroes' on the cover that has no heroes in it?
I was just trying to show that there are ‘holy’ core features, even though their existence is nothing more than a matter of commonly held personal preference borne of game tradition. Other obvious examples are towns, creatures, adventure map, combat and spell casting. They wouldn’t be core features if the fans were prepared to part with them, but that’s probably too much to ask.

User avatar
wimfrits
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 2047
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Unread postby wimfrits » 07 Oct 2011, 08:46

Groovy wrote: I guess this is the crux of our disagreement. Your flaw is my core feature. :hug:
Agreed :)
I was just trying to show that there are ‘holy’ core features, even though their existence is nothing more than a matter of commonly held personal preference borne of game tradition.
Well, a game called 'Heroes of Might and Magic' will naturally contain heroes that can act in physical and magic ways. If you replace heroes with cucumbers, the name should change accordingly.
But the way these elements are translated into game mechanics is by no means holy. As long as sufficient features are recognizable, the majority of players will consider a game a 'Heroes' game. At least that is my opinion.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 07 Oct 2011, 08:48

Torur wrote:I don't think there are alot of people that want huge changes to the game. But improvements on the things that we all felt where abit off.
I wonder about that. When I look at changes introduced by H3, two substantial revisions that stand out for me are of artefacts and spells. Artefact system was redesigned to make their placement on the hero relevant, allow the hero to drop unwanted artefacts, as well as combine them into composite artefacts. The spell system was redesigned to introduce schools of magic, which significantly contributed to the effectiveness of spells as the hero became more skilled.

Had I played H2 before H3, I don’t think it would have occurred to me that these two areas are in need of overhaul. They work just fine in H2. Yet putting them alongside their H3 equivalents, they look outdated.

Going back to your comment, I agree that most people don’t want huge changes to the game. But if they were to get huge changes that work well and preserve the feel of the game, I think they’d be glad to have them.

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 07 Oct 2011, 08:50

wimfrits wrote:But the way these elements are translated into game mechanics is by no means holy. As long as sufficient features are recognizable, the majority of players will consider a game a 'Heroes' game.
Agreed.

User avatar
Panda Tar
Forum Mascot
Forum Mascot
Posts: 6709
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Florianópolis - Brasil

Unread postby Panda Tar » 07 Oct 2011, 16:18

Groovy wrote: Going back to your comment, I agree that most people don’t want huge changes to the game. But if they were to get huge changes that work well and preserve the feel of the game, I think they’d be glad to have them.
Well, I suppose that's the main complaint about H6 right now. The changings are not keeping the feeling of the game. They just are. While some features players liked were resumed, taken. But hopefully, some stuff might return, redesigned or not.
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 12 Oct 2011, 15:29

Wimfrits, how do you feel about partially implementing the H4 hero-creature interaction, where heroes are able to move around without creatures and can join other heroes’ armies, but creatures are not able to move around without heroes. It looks to me like the best of both worlds – you still get the benefits of multi-hero combat, and heroes still act as organisational units for creatures.

User avatar
wimfrits
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 2047
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Utrecht, the Netherlands

Unread postby wimfrits » 12 Oct 2011, 18:09

I was thinking the exact same thing! :-D
I think that would be a perfect solution.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

User avatar
overall
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 125
Joined: 05 Feb 2010

Unread postby overall » 22 Oct 2011, 23:24

half of time i has no idea what you are talking about Groovy but you seem to thought this things lot so "Let your armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky" x)

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 23 Oct 2011, 01:05

:rofl:

I'd be happy to clarify, if you like...

mr.hackcrag
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1525
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 23 Oct 2011, 03:18

Groovy, your other threads need an update. Your great ideas about what a HoMM game could be are being overrun by sad realities of H6. :drama:

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 626
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Unread postby Groovy » 23 Oct 2011, 13:30

What kind of update?

mr.hackcrag
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 1525
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Unread postby mr.hackcrag » 24 Oct 2011, 01:35

Well, maybe a final revision of your concepts or master document of some sort, but if it is time consuming or difficult, don't worry about it. :)

User avatar
Soronarr
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 117
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Location: Croatia

Unread postby Soronarr » 24 Oct 2011, 10:52

Panda Tar wrote: For a real improvement imho, a mix between town/creatures and some skills from H3 mixed to H4 hero development, and some skill schemes from H5. Blend everything and then...and then something would be born. :|
add the town/faction aesthetics/design from H2 with some sprinlke of H3.
Drop trying to pick up every culture fro mevery time period and dump it into a big pot. Stick with something. Stick with the western/Nordic mythology feel.

Drop the samurai naga. Drop the indian elves. Drop the arabian mages.

User avatar
klaymen
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 532
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Piestany (Slovakia)

Unread postby klaymen » 24 Oct 2011, 11:17

I think that even if someone would put all the "best" things (from his PoV) into one game, even then people would whinr and moan that <feature1> is poorly implemented, <feature2> is superfluously complex and could be done in a more simple and efficient way, or that <feature3> is just plain missing.

Also, all the good things together do not guarantee success. We have tale about Doggie and Kitty, where they wanted to make a cake together. Everyone added what he liked - Doggie added bones or sweets, Kitty added milk or a fish and you can imagine the outcome...(no, they didn't die, they just had stomach ache - it is a story for kids, after all).
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."
-Ahzek Ahriman

User avatar
Soronarr
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 117
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Location: Croatia

Unread postby Soronarr » 24 Oct 2011, 13:23

you cna never satisfy everyone - you shouldn't even try.

You can however, analyze your work, see what works, and why.


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests