I believe most of us that have the expansion were dismayed by the fact that you had to disk swap to play the original campaigns, and not have HOF programmed to play them the way 3DO allowed the expansions to be backwardly compatible. Also once you patched the expansion you need not worry about the earlier versions. When the third expansion is released two things could happen neither of which is acceptable. One you now deal with patching up to three games, or Nival no longer supports 1 or both of the earlier editions. Hopefully they will take a higher road an incorporate compatibility into the next expansion so maintaining three versions will not be necessary, yeah right.im seriously considering selling my homm5 set before the price drops...
apparently there are issues with 2.1 balance, so 1.5, being so late, is now gonna put support 2 months behind HoF.
im starting to think the support cycle for the game is fubar... so 1.5 in a month, 2 months later 2.2, 2 months later 1.6, then it gets worse: they release an expansion.
so then, already apparently over their heads and bogged down with the shoddy implementation of homm5 and its expansion 1, we will have 3 versions to muck it up.
so then what? 1.6, 2.2, and 3.0? 3-4 months per patch per version?
Something Worrying to think about
Something Worrying to think about
This was posted on the official forum by Datachasm
Mala Ipsa Nova
- winterfate
- Round Table Hero
- Posts: 6191
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This whole patching business is getting nasty...
My last "news interview" (in the Campfire thread, not a real interview...it's a mock interview to entertain) poked a little fun at Nival...but I feel I must now poke harder .
Or, we could give up and adopt Nival's motto...
Patching eternal!!!
I really think we shouldn't though.
My last "news interview" (in the Campfire thread, not a real interview...it's a mock interview to entertain) poked a little fun at Nival...but I feel I must now poke harder .
Or, we could give up and adopt Nival's motto...
Patching eternal!!!
I really think we shouldn't though.
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Proud creator of Caladont 2.0!
You need to take the pain, learn from it and get back on that bike... - stefan
Sometimes the hearts most troubled make the sweetest melodies... - winterfate
Honestly, I have never seen a game that after so many patches is still so bugged. And what is worse is that patches introduce bugs: like the runes no longer working in 2.1 - and that;s a serious one.
It comes to proove that they are really low standard programmers, that do a very sloppy job. Frankly, they do not diserve to see a cent, and they should go bankrupt...
It comes to proove that they are really low standard programmers, that do a very sloppy job. Frankly, they do not diserve to see a cent, and they should go bankrupt...
- theGryphon
- Spectre
- Posts: 716
- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
(Lack of) Compatibility is a big issue. I don't understand their policy here. Probably it's not a result of bad policy but bad programming. In any case, there's something seriously broken.
Patching is a good thing, if implemented effectively that is. With the fact that we encounter new bugs after each patch, I'm confident that Nival team did a bad bad job in their programming the game.
Another clue in this direction is the weird organization of the data folder. There are so many unused files, items here and there, and inconsistencies in naming, grouping, sorting, etc. It's such a mess.
Good programming means scalability, compatibility, leanness and good documentation, not to mention that it should work. I don't see any of these in HOMM5.
These are without taking into account the (lack of) quality of AI...
Patching is a good thing, if implemented effectively that is. With the fact that we encounter new bugs after each patch, I'm confident that Nival team did a bad bad job in their programming the game.
Another clue in this direction is the weird organization of the data folder. There are so many unused files, items here and there, and inconsistencies in naming, grouping, sorting, etc. It's such a mess.
Good programming means scalability, compatibility, leanness and good documentation, not to mention that it should work. I don't see any of these in HOMM5.
These are without taking into account the (lack of) quality of AI...
I believe in science and that science can explain everything.
Because God has made it all work in such a beautiful way...
Because God has made it all work in such a beautiful way...
To clarify my point, obviously Nival/UBI are going to have to produce multiple patches, as not everyone will buy all or any of the expansions and those people deserve support. What my point is each expansion needs to be backwardly compatible so the only patch you really need is the one for the latest version you bought. If you wish to patch all versions fine, but once I bought Winds of War, I never used my H-IV disc or my Gathering Storm disc again, except when installing the games on a new computer. That is the way this game needs to go, and not force everyone to patch everything.
Mala Ipsa Nova
I couldn't agree more! Just think, if Nival/UBI continues down this path and if they make it to 2 or 3 more expansions, how many different patches we'd have to download! Yuck!jeff wrote:To clarify my point, obviously Nival/UBI are going to have to produce multiple patches, as not everyone will buy all or any of the expansions and those people deserve support. What my point is each expansion needs to be backwardly compatible so the only patch you really need is the one for the latest version you bought. If you wish to patch all versions fine, but once I bought Winds of War, I never used my H-IV disc or my Gathering Storm disc again, except when installing the games on a new computer. That is the way this game needs to go, and not force everyone to patch everything.
And to add to this, I really feel the map editor ought to be menu driven like H-4 so us non-programmers can create maps (my opinion and of course everyone has a right to my opinion! (kidding )
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- Campaigner
- Vampire
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I wonder why they don't make a patch that automatically updates to the latest version. But isn't autoupdater working anymore? Since that is the very easist. One click and you're set. (Ofcourse you can find better download sites but then it's your own fault if you get the wrong patch).
Actually Relic (creator of Warhammer 40.000 Dawn of War with its expansions Winter Assault and Dark Crusade and the other RTS Company of Heroes) did the same thing in Dawn of War where you had to download each consecutive patch. From v.1.0 to v.1.1 to v.1.2 to v.1.3 to v.1.4 to v.1.41....
Now I think they've improved though but it's still goes to show that even 1st class developers can do a bad job every now and then. (And I haven't even begun to talk about bugs and balance yet )
Actually Relic (creator of Warhammer 40.000 Dawn of War with its expansions Winter Assault and Dark Crusade and the other RTS Company of Heroes) did the same thing in Dawn of War where you had to download each consecutive patch. From v.1.0 to v.1.1 to v.1.2 to v.1.3 to v.1.4 to v.1.41....
Now I think they've improved though but it's still goes to show that even 1st class developers can do a bad job every now and then. (And I haven't even begun to talk about bugs and balance yet )
- Starbatron
- Pixie
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- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
As far as managing the bugs and patching in this game, I don't think it will improve any time soon (if at all). I think the format for the patching is inherant in the overall programming and organization of the files in general and can't be fixed very easily at this point in time. I think our best hope is that Ubival learned from this experience and will approach HoMM VI with all the "common sense" ideas we've been discussing here...
- ThunderTitan
- Perpetual Poster
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Yeah, i belive that's more of a tehnical thing, as more and more games do that. But they could make a 1.0 to 1.x direct patch besides the normal ones as far as i know, it would just take more space.Campaigner wrote: Actually Relic (creator of Warhammer 40.000 Dawn of War with its expansions Winter Assault and Dark Crusade and the other RTS Company of Heroes) did the same thing in Dawn of War where you had to download each consecutive patch. From v.1.0 to v.1.1 to v.1.2 to v.1.3 to v.1.4 to v.1.41....
Now I think they've improved though but it's still goes to show that even 1st class developers can do a bad job every now and then. (And I haven't even begun to talk about bugs and balance yet )
And you live in CS now campaigner?
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I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti
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I have your opinion. I am currently working on an Equilibris map and I have developed in parallel a storyline compatible with the H-V item set, but I'll never use the H-V editor in its current form.addicted wrote: And to add to this, I really feel the map editor ought to be menu driven like H-4 so us non-programmers can create maps (my opinion and of course everyone has a right to my opinion! (kidding )
Mala Ipsa Nova
- Starbatron
- Pixie
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Well I have been avoiding any forums but Campfire and Heretics for awhile now. Don't get me wrong HoF was deffinately an improvement on the original h5. Still it seems that they take 1 step up and 20 back. It is my sincere hope they sell the HoMM franchise. Maybe to blizzard. They seem to get more right then wrong. Heck at this juncture even EA is looking good. I have nothing against Nival or Ubi, but they just seem to have missed this one. By a country mile.
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- Starbatron
- Pixie
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It would probably be more energetic that is for sure. As much as I have gotten sick of some of Blizzards game, it took me many many years to get to that point. So far everything Blizzard touches turns to Platinum (heck with gold).
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