Elevation causes really bad lag

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myythryyn
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Elevation causes really bad lag

Unread postby myythryyn » 06 Apr 2007, 15:48

Hello, im making a map, and im a little confused.

the map takes place in a moutainous/hilly area, with the center part of the map being a big mountain platuea, with elevations around 35-50.

Ive made maps before with elevations, but this map for some reason when the player enters the elevated mountain platuea, the lag makes it almost impossible to move your cursor/hero on the screen. The map only lags in that one area.

To test it, i flattened the entire area to zero. the lag went away.
also interesting the map file size with elevated terrain, 220kb, file size after no elevated area, 185 kb. i didnt remove any objects, just lowered the terrrain.
so it would seem that elevations seem to take up space, and maybe could be why the lag.
any other ideas why this happens, or has this happened to anyone else?
all i can think of is that the elevated area im trying to use is larger than ones ive used before, but not sure, it baffles me.

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jeff
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Unread postby jeff » 07 Apr 2007, 21:00

Which Heroes are you asking about, in H-IV I have noticed a lag while the icon is moving through an area of extreme elevation change. I always put it down to simulating a person having to climb or desend a steep incline.
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Unread postby myythryyn » 08 Apr 2007, 14:56

sorry, its for HV.

it definetly is the elevations i had causing the extreme lag.
i just finished flattening, then resurfacing the entire map, i made sure not to go above 15 for height, and only in smaller sized areas.

even with less height, i still notice a slow down when i enter that area. its really strange.

so i would advise map makers not to get carried away with elevations like i did, or youll have to redo things like i just did. The map did look nice though, im dissapointed. just another limitation of the HV editor.

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Unread postby Mozared » 12 Apr 2007, 20:34

That's just great. I just finished a map which has a huge elevated mountain which spirals down in a path with a dwarf town in the middle :|

I do hope it resolves for me... This editor is beginning to piss me off, Nival should've rather just stole the warcraft 3 engine, at least that worked...

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Unread postby myythryyn » 12 Apr 2007, 23:10

Mozared could you load up your map and test that elevated area and see if there is any lag?
the lag was completely unbearable on my map. i used the normal map size, and the entire middle area of the map was elevated between 30-50.

let me know what happens, im curious to know if maybe its just my system/map with the problems.

this might also explain the problems i had with my playground of the gods map, i also used alot of highly elevated areas, and there was lag.

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Unread postby Vlaad II » 13 Apr 2007, 12:45

This guy was doing the same thing (look at the screens!). He vanished though and I have no idea if he ever finished his scenario.
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Unread postby myythryyn » 13 Apr 2007, 14:52

hmmm yes, i read that post. My terrain wasnt as extreme as that, but perhaps the camera angles are what is the problem.

Since the game cant handle any other camera angle other than top down wihout a slow down of the game, high elevations could cause the game to change camera angles and create lag.

i still have a copy of my map before i flattened it. Ill have to load it up and try making camera setting "fixed vertical" to see if that helps.

though even if it works, i dont want to have a map released that depends on the player to change that setting to play it, so will probably just stay with lowered terrain.

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 13 Apr 2007, 14:56

I have some pretty high elevations in Seize The Throne though not really large areas of elevation. I don't experience any lag in those areas and noone has reported experiencing lag in those areas to me.

If you turn on the grid you'll see that the transition cells are "stretched" when you elevate an area. Maybe try using the mask to make most of the stretched cells impassible and see if that helps.


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Unread postby myythryyn » 21 Apr 2007, 05:20

so i just finished re surfacing the entire map.
that was just so much fun... :devious:

but i am still getting lag in the center elevated area of my map. :wall:
at least the lag is better, though im not happy with it. its playbable, but annoying. the reduced elevation has helped.
i did reduce the overall elevation, the center part of the map now has a average height of 8 and is a large mostly flat platuea area right in the middle of the map.
i think its because of the size of the area that there is the lag, smaller elevated areas might not be as bad.
but im still confused because 8 is not a high elevation.
maybe its because its in the center of the map?
i also noticed that the lag only occurs when the camera angle is fully zoomed out, if you zoom half way in, there is no lag and the map is playable, so i guess i could put that in the readme. though i would prefer not.
im at the point where i might just flatten the whole thing and forget nice terrain.

could i send my map to someone? I have placed a hero right in the middle of the laggy area of the map, so all you have to do is load the map, and try to move the hero around.
if you dont get any lag, then ill leave the elevated terrain.
maybe its just my computer that is having the problem and im worrying over nothing.

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 21 Apr 2007, 07:55

Sure, send me the map file and the save game and I'll see how it reacts on my system.

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Unread postby myythryyn » 23 Apr 2007, 06:07

ok thxs alot for checking my map GOW, its too bad that it wasnt just my system that is getting the bad lag.

so I just finished resurfacing the map....again. :devious:
this time i completely flattened to zero the middle area, i left some terrain elevated, but it looks like the lag is mostly gone now.

i gotta say, i get more and more frustrated and disspointed with the editor as i find out things like this.
one of the features of this editor is supposed to be its amazing terraforming abilities.
what they dont tell you is that if you make a large area an elevated platuea that your map becomes unplayable because the game cant handle it.
ill never understand how the editor can produce maps that are unplayable...

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Unread postby rdeford » 08 May 2007, 17:56

Using the HOF 2.1 editor, I created an extremely elevated, large area on a large map. The map plays well without any slowing down. Maybe the newer editor does a better job on this type of terrain.
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Unread postby Mozared » 16 May 2007, 15:32

Vlaad II wrote:This guy was doing the same thing (look at the screens!). He vanished though and I have no idea if he ever finished his scenario.
Not sure if you were talking about me (not sure, I know nothing of screens), but I'm still here; just don't check these boards too often. Perhaps I'll try out my map sometime soon and see what happens, I'll post it up then anyway.

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Unread postby Corribus » 16 May 2007, 15:43

I have this problem, too. Not in the editor; during play.

I've been noticing some strange slowdowns in H5 that seem to be somehow related to map elevation. The game runs perfectly smooth for me at the highest settings EXCEPT when, it seems, I am at a point in the map where there are very high elevations, including mountains or very tall trees, at which point the game grinds almost to a halt and it's all I can do to rotate the camera at all. Strangely, often if I rotate the camera to certain angles, the game speeds up again, but if I rotate back, it's slow. Definitely worse when I'm zoomed out. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with my settings, because if I drop the video settings back to medium level, it doesn't help. And as I said, it's only at high elevations -all other times the game runs without a hitch.

Anyone else experience something like this and/or have a fix?
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Unread postby Mozared » 20 May 2007, 18:06

Corribus wrote:Definitely worse when I'm zoomed out.
I can partially 'explain' that; whenever you zoom out a lot the game seems to go slower, regardless where you are or what you're doing. Probably because there will be more objects to load in view. Same when you turn your camera horizontal; objects in a straight line from your view are also loaded, which means that even if you put your cam horizontal and you look straight into a mountain, the objects behind it are also loaded, thus slowing down the game (*even* if you can't even see the objects behind the mountain).

In addition to this, your game automaticaly zooms out when you get in an elevated area, even though you're not *actually* zooming out; your camera is just taking more distance from the piece of paper which is your map, to make sure you have the same field of vision on an elevated area as you had on a non-elevated area.

So much for my theory, now somebody explain it :baby:

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Unread postby jeff » 20 May 2007, 20:58

Unfortunately with the eye candy, came a need for system resources, and despite my criticisms of the H-V editor; it can make beautiful maps. Unfortunately everything seems to add to a need for system resources. Playing the contest maps earlier this year one of the best looking maps was almost unplayable because of the system requirements caused by the heavy use of landscape decorations. So whether it is elevation changes or even simple things like adding more vegetation to improve the beauty of the map; it is mapmaker beware. It is an editor that is user unfriendly, but for those who master it, the results can be wonderful maps as the contestants showed.
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Mozared
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Unread postby Mozared » 08 Jun 2007, 14:21

Well, I've finally gotten off my lazy ass and tested my map. The whole map was pretty much undecorated except for a bunch of trees. Results:

-No lag on the elevated terrain itself, no matter the zoom.
-A tiny amount of lag when hovering over the borders of the elevated part, where the terrain is really steep.
-Tiny to medium amount of lag when putting the cam in FPS-perspective at or around the elevated part. That's normal on my PC though, it's alike on unelevated terrain.

This is all in-game, in the editor I'm having 0 lag.

Here's a small screenshot to show a bit of the situation I'm talking about.
Image


Hope I've helped somebody,

Mozared

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Unread postby rdeford » 16 Jul 2007, 18:33

So, if I've followed this thread correctly, high elevations (which cause auto zooming and increased graphic detail) plus lots of of eye candy (which uses system resources), equal slow game performance on weaker computers. This makes perfect sense to me. I think it means that we mapmakers are going to have to make compromises.

I just put my latest map, King's Quest, into the CH archives for downloading. It has a large, radical elevated volcano in the center. You can ride up a path to the top where you can ride around the rim. The view from the top is spectacular and worth all work it took to create it. While one tester mentioned a slow down, the other did not. But, after reading this thread, I am worried. I'd appreciate feedback from other players so I make appropriate compromises on future maps.
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