[H4 EDITOR] troubleshooting

Maps and the art of mapmaking.

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RobB
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Postby RobB » Dec 11 2006, 21:52

I'll take your advice and start looking at some more game scenarios. I don't recognise the name Wind of Thorns, is that a new one?

What I tried before was in the creatures' Defeat event I had Set Numeric Value to 1, having previously set it to 0. When the hero arrived back at the hut, it the variable was now 1, she was supposed to receive the goodie, but it didn't work. I think I should spend more time on my Test map, instead of trying to implent things on large maps where it takes ages to reach the event.

Am I right though? The Delete Adventure Object will blow up whatever is sitting on top of the bomb and not just the bomb itself?
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 12 2006, 19:10

RobB wrote:I'll take your advice and start looking at some more game scenarios. I don't recognise the name Wind of Thorns, is that a new one?


It's on the CH campaign page for one : http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=76

What I tried before was in the creatures' Defeat event I had Set Numeric Value to 1, having previously set it to 0. When the hero arrived back at the hut, it the variable was now 1, she was supposed to receive the goodie, but it didn't work.


Sounds like a good setup. Perhaps the error is in the quest hut itself. Easiest thing to do is browse through a couple of user-made quest huts to see how you can set things up.

Am I right though? The Delete Adventure Object will blow up whatever is sitting on top of the bomb and not just the bomb itself?


Yes. Everything that is under the bomb. Note that some mountains or other mountains can be destroyed even though it seems they only touch the edge of the bombtile. So always test if the bomb does not remove too many objects and mess up your landscape.
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Postby RobB » Dec 12 2006, 21:54

I finally figured it out. I think I was trying to make it too complicated by using triggered actions and things like that. In particular, I was trying to stuff to much into the Completion Script, whereas I have now discovered after a lot of trial and error on my Test map, that most of the key stuff goes into Quest Requirement.

It seems my version of Campaign Editor will not open the campaigns that come with the game: only scenarios and downloaded campaigns, but that's not a real problem. I am finding testing campaigns a pain. I thought that by saving a game just before winning the first scenario, that I could go on to play the second, but that only seems to bring up my very first version, which was deleted long ago. Playing the second scenario, brings my heroes up with only basic skills, which of course are insufficient for the higher level stacks that await them, so I'm having to play the first scenario all over again, knowing that I have a lot of changes and additions to the second one.

What's the answer? Create, as a temporary measure, some high level heroes?
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Postby RobB » Dec 12 2006, 22:03

Just to clarify: is the only way to test campaigns to insert heroes with the skills and levels that you hope they will have by that time and play it as a stand-alone scenario, and then, when it is hopefully complete, replace them with the grey carry-over heroes?
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 13 2006, 19:02

RobB wrote:I thought that by saving a game just before winning the first scenario, that I could go on to play the second, but that only seems to bring up my very first version, which was deleted long ago.


It's probably the mapname or location. Or the hero name? If you keep on playing the same physical campaign and the hero stays the same and you end scenario 1, the game should load the revised scenario 2.

Just to clarify: is the only way to test campaigns to insert heroes with the skills and levels that you hope they will have by that time and play it as a stand-alone scenario, and then, when it is hopefully complete, replace them with the grey carry-over heroes?


What I did was note down every skill and stat powerup, and at the start of each scenario insert a portal leading to a secluded area with dream teachers and the appropriate skill and stat boosts to get the hero at the level of a player who develops his hero to the max in each map. Nwchermes to collect everything in 1 turn. And a win placed event because I was too lazy to type nwcvalhalla every time.

This gives you an alternative way to 'skip' each map in the appropriate way.
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Postby RobB » Dec 13 2006, 22:04

It really was weird. Not only had I overwritten the scenario with updates, but I had deleted a few copies I had left lying around, and yet the game kept moving to the un-updated version. I can only assume the game keeps copies of what it's playing in some secret place. This does seem likely since, if you update the scenario you actually playing, those changes do not show up when you return to the game.

I quite like your special update location, although I seem to fill my maps up both above and below ground. The other thing - I had never noticed this while just playing - the level restrictions don't quite work as expected. They only restrict gaining experience, but they don't count skills gained at magic libraries, universities, seminaries, etc. I am carrying over 2 heroes - I couldn't remember exactly what both had, but I was pretty clear about my main hero, but when I started re-creating her for Part 2, I got a surprise. She had been restricted to Level 21, but as I filled in her skills, I was suddenly up to 27 before I had even finished.

She reached grandmaster everything in Nature, but had significant Tactics and Combat skills as well as some low level Life and Order. Just grandmaster Nature brings you up to 19 before you start. (Why 19 and not 20?).

Anyway, I am enjoying my introduction to mapmaking, and finding it is making me learn a lot more about the game.
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 16 2006, 9:48

RobB wrote:She reached grandmaster everything in Nature, but had significant Tactics and Combat skills as well as some low level Life and Order. Just grandmaster Nature brings you up to 19 before you start. (Why 19 and not 20?)


Because you start with 2 nature skills on level 1.

There is a button to customize the hero level enabling you to give out more skills than the hero level allows.

Anyway, I am enjoying my introduction to mapmaking, and finding it is making me learn a lot more about the game.


That's good :)
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Carry-overs

Postby RobB » Dec 19 2006, 22:03

A new question:

Is it possible to carry a hero over, but "jumping" an episode? I want my main two heroes to carry over into every part of the campaign (I think), but there is another hero in Part 1 whom I don't want in Part 2, but would quite like to have in Part 3. Is that possible?

I can see how it might be possible to carry heroes from Pt 1 to Pt 3, but I'm not sure if it would work with some from Pt 2 and one from Pt 1.
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 20 2006, 18:51

Sure.

It is done many times in Jeff G's campaign Dragon's Fate; also listed in the H4 campaign section.
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Postby RobB » Dec 20 2006, 22:14

Thanks. I was going to download that campaign, but I noticed it was Winds of War, which AFAIK has still not been released for Mac. I only have Heroes IV Complete.
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 21 2006, 7:22

RobB wrote:Thanks. I was going to download that campaign, but I noticed it was Winds of War, which AFAIK has still not been released for Mac. I only have Heroes IV Complete.


Doesn't HIV Complete includes all the expansions? Else I don't get the term 'complete' :-D
If not, an alternative would be to install the equilibris mod; I'm pretty sure that enables you to play expansion maps.
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Postby RobB » Dec 21 2006, 21:58

I was wrong, of course. My "complete" dvd is Heroes III. As far as I know, only one port to Macintosh was made of HOMM4, so no expansions. I can't hope the Equilibris would work on Mac.
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 22 2006, 20:00

Don't know. You could check out their site.
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Stop hero duplication

Postby RobB » Dec 27 2006, 21:54

Time for another question:

Can you please tell me how to prevent the portraits of custom heroes from cropping up at taverns? Obviously, they don't have the same names, but I find it disconcerting having to fight a look-alike of my hero.

Is it something to do with that "customise heroes" option in the Map Properties? I don't understand that page which always comes up with almost all heroes ticked (the unticked ones seem to be heroes I've never heard of).
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Postby Akul » Dec 28 2006, 10:22

The unticked heroes are heroes from campaigns.

When making a custom hero, always untick the name of the hero whos potrait you are using.

BTW, you should make your own tread besides cluttering this one. Not to mention that posting here could go unnoticed.
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Dec 28 2006, 11:22

Sauron wrote:BTW, you should make your own tread besides cluttering this one. Not to mention that posting here could go unnoticed.


Au contraire. Please continue to use this when there's some "trick" aspect of mapmaking.
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Postby Pitsu » Dec 28 2006, 13:05

The "basic H4 editor help" part splitted from original "tricks"

IMO we have enough space for 2 threads and the tricks and basic troubleshooting are different enough to justify it. Additionally, Thelonius/Ronald, the maker of the original thread, agreed with my plan. :)
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Postby Thelonious » Dec 28 2006, 14:54

Yeah, just a little tip, sticky the tread.

That'll make people come to this thread before going to other threads.

(By the way, I noticed that the HoMM V troubleshooting thread isn't stickied either, you could also do that)

Sorry for the :offtopic: off topic
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Postby RobB » Dec 28 2006, 21:53

Originally, I did start a new thread, but then I noticed just about all the other threads are about homm5 or 3 and this one one was barely being used, so I thought the questions I was asking were relevant to anyone else making homm4 maps. I'm quite happy to start a new one, but it's not as if I were asking questions every day.

Anyway, thanks for the answer. As usual, it was not intuitive: you would expect that "customize heroes" meant that it would do something to the ones you tick, rather than the ones you untick.
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Off Topic

Postby RobB » Jul 11 2007, 23:29

I finally finished my campaign and it is now posted in Celestial Heaven's maptesting section. I'm now working on an updated version to incorporate Sauron's suggestions. I just wanted to thank everyone here who answered all my question, many of which now seem quite stupid in retrospect. I had never even created a scenario before, so perhaps a campaign was a bit ambitious, but I've learned a lot by doing it. So thanks once again.
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