[H4 EDITOR] troubleshooting

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Elwin
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[H4 EDITOR] troubleshooting

Postby Elwin » Aug 24 2006, 22:52

Oh man, in the campaign editor when I go to win/loss condition on scenarios and a type in "defeat xxx hero" it doesn't seem to effect the game unlike Heroes 3's campaign editor, since when I play the game and defeat the specific hero(or any other objective) it doesn't allow me to win!

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Re: I'm an idiot........

Postby wimfrits » Aug 25 2006, 14:19

Elwin wrote:Oh man, in the campaign editor when I go to win/loss condition on scenarios and a type in "defeat xxx hero" it doesn't seem to effect the game unlike Heroes 3's campaign editor, since when I play the game and defeat the specific hero(or any other objective) it doesn't allow me to win!


There are 2 seperate things :

1. the win condition description. This is the one you are referring to. It has no other function than provide reference information to the player what the win condition is.

2. the actual win condition. This is located wherever you want. For example, if the win condition is to defeat hero xxx, then:
- select the army hero xxx is located in, in the map editor
- double click on the hero xxx
- go to events - standard events - defeated
- select action SEQUENCE and then create the following 2 actions (through NEW ACTION)
A. DISPLAY MESSAGE "blabla you did a good job blablabla"
B. WIN: Player (player color)

Because the win condition is scripted by the mapmaker, it can be almost anything you want it to be.
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How do you lever grounds?

Postby Elwin » Aug 27 2006, 18:49

I'm trying to lever the grounds up and down...for some fun. How do you do that?

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Postby Elwin » Aug 30 2006, 18:56

As for the win condition.......

what about capturing garrisons? Is it the same?
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Postby Robenhagen » Aug 30 2006, 20:11

About levering ground - select the 'Elevation Tool' and move the cursor over the map.

Image

Hold down the left mousebutton and drag the mouse upwards.
Image

Dragging the mouse further raises the elevation further (until the maximum is reached).
Image

Dragging the mouse down lowers the elevation again.
Image

Various tool settings result in different results (go figure :creative: )


As for the garrison - you can put a script in the garrison, which is triggered if the garrison is captured.
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Re: I'm an idiot........

Postby RobB » Nov 21 2006, 23:16

There are 2 seperate things :

1. the win condition description. This is the one you are referring to. It has no other function than provide reference information to the player what the win condition is.

2. the actual win condition. This is located wherever you want. For example, if the win condition is to defeat hero xxx, then:
- select the army hero xxx is located in, in the map editor
- double click on the hero xxx
- go to events - standard events - defeated
- select action SEQUENCE and then create the following 2 actions (through NEW ACTION)
A. DISPLAY MESSAGE "blabla you did a good job blablabla"
B. WIN: Player (player color)

Because the win condition is scripted by the mapmaker, it can be almost anything you want it to be.[/quote]

I'm current using a map "Test", but I still can't get the Win/Lose thing right. I want to lose if my hero, Gem, whom I have custom named Gemma, gets killed. I've got that set in her starting castle events and again on my only stack defending a mine, but I still can't get the game to tell me I've lost when she dies. Aha! Maybe it's because I'm using Conditional Action, but it certainly didn't work when I had it in Standard Events Defeated. So should it be Standard Events Victorious?
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Postby RobB » Nov 23 2006, 0:14

Finally solved my own problem, although I'm not quite sure what I did. Going by what was done in one of game scenarios, I had originally placed my Lose condition in Map Properties Events, but I also had almost the same thing attached to the hero. I removed the Map event, rewrote the hero's Lose script and now it works. Whether one was interfering with the other, I'll never know.

I had greater difficulty with the win condition: I wanted my hero to rescue another from prison and bring him back alive to the starting castle. I finally solved this by placing two Map Properties Placed Events at the castle door.

I'm still having problems stopping my main enemy hero from killing himself. I've got him cooped up in an area only my hero's army can enter, but I suppose I'll have to tone down the stacks guarding his mines.

How is it enemies can get through narrow passages without appparently killing the monsters there? I watched one emerge from underground and kill the guard, but after killing him, my hero plunged into the tunnel and was surprised at all the monsters still around.

I think I'm going to have a lot more dumb questions, now I've started on this, so I hope you will all bear with me.
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Postby wimfrits » Nov 23 2006, 18:27

You can better preserve the enemy hero by temporarily increasing his defence when engaging neutrals and/or boosting his army (extremely) before the battle (and take away after)

Use the engaged script with condition 'opposing army is neutral' and the victorious and defeated script to take away 'temporary' armies. Scripts should be put on the hero himself.
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Postby RobB » Nov 23 2006, 23:42

Thanks for that tip. I'll give it a try. I didn't want to make him too powerful, but since victory can only be triggered by defeating him, I've got to keep him alive. I also wanted his final state to be a bit unpredictable and wanted him to be able to increase his levels by defeating a number of neutral stacks - bit difficult, as I don't want him wandering over the entire map. Your suggestion may well be the answer I was looking for.
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Postby RobB » Nov 24 2006, 22:57

That was interesting. I don't know how it work with Windows, but in my Mac version of the Editor, you have to choose all scripts from drop-down menus, and guessing which choice will give you which submenu seems almost random.

[img] - Oh, well, I was going to show you a picture, but that didn't work - I chose "has certain alignment", but the only choices were "Life, Nature, Might, etc."

So I was a bit perplexed when, at first, I couldn't find "neutral army" as a choice, but in the end, I found another choice "is computer player". I've only just started testing, so I'm not sure yet whether it's going to work or not, but he hasn't suicided so far.[/img]
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Postby wimfrits » Nov 25 2006, 10:22

I'm not 100% sure what the exact naming is like (don't have the editor near) but I thought it was : "opposing player is certain color -> neutral"

Select the army the hero is in - double click the hero - select the events tab - choose standard events - there you have the encountered/defeated/victorious options.
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Postby RobB » Nov 25 2006, 22:31

I've got that option too, but (touch wood) the way I've done it seems to be working so far. Correction: he did get killed about Month 2 on my first try, but then I have him an extra hero with advanced combat skills lurking around near the castle, and so far, so good.

Testing is temporarily halted: my main hero (Expert Nature) thought she was pretty good with her 30 elves and 10 griffins, but it seems one of the "minor" enemies had been very busy capturing neutral towns, and she met up with this Chaos hero who had collected an amazing crowd of Black Dragons, Hydras and Fairy Dragons. I think this is a sign that I am developing a real game.
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Campaign carryovers

Postby RobB » Nov 27 2006, 22:44

I think I'm only a few days away from completing my first-ever scenario, but I am really trying to create a campaign. So, time for my next dumb question:

How do you set carryovers? In the Map properties, I can write down who or what I want carried over, but I can't find anywhere where I can specify that this happens. All I want is to carry over 2 heroes with their acquired skills.

I created my first scenario as a campaign anyway. Part 2, which so far only consists of a road and 1 town, I have saved as a scenario, but how do I link them? Also, should I have them all in a separate subfolder inside "maps"?
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Postby wimfrits » Nov 29 2006, 19:44

There are carryover place holders (grey hero icons) in the heroes-objects-tab. You can place them on the second map, double-click them and select a name of an existing hero from the first map (through a pulldown menu) to specify the hero to be carried over. Don't forget to give them a color.

If you want to make a campaign, perhaps it would be a good idea to check some user made campaigns and see how other mapmakers solved issues you might encounter. There are enough of them to be found on CH
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Postby RobB » Nov 29 2006, 22:46

Thanks very much for that, but how does the game know that it is to progress from one scenario to the next?

Changing the subject: one thing I have discovered is how tiny changes can have big effects. I found it was taking ages to be able to build a timbertop lodge, and instead of doing the obvious thing of chucking in a few accessible log piles, I gave a town hall and upped the skills of a secondary hero. Suddenly, previously touch-and-go battles were turning into quick combat. It's strange how a Level 6 hero can be so powerful, and yet enemy heroes much under 20 commit suicide regularly.
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Postby wimfrits » Nov 30 2006, 17:32

Oh right.

Create a campaign type map and then choose import (in one of the menus) to import the scenario maps of your preference one by one. You can change the order of maps any time.
The order in which the maps are presented in the editor determines the order in which they will be played.

So the carryover placeholder will go on the second map in the campaign file and will point to a hero from the first map in the campaign file.
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Postby RobB » Nov 30 2006, 22:31

Thanks. My finger was itching to click on that Import option, but I was scared it might do something else like overwrite my original. Guess I should have a copy in another location anyway so I can experiment without worries.

Can you create a campaign entirely from scratch? In other words, can you create a number of separate scenarios and then, later, combine them into a campaign?

Thanks again for answering my question.
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 1 2006, 19:17

RobB wrote:Can you create a campaign entirely from scratch? In other words, can you create a number of separate scenarios and then, later, combine them into a campaign?


Yes.

Guess I should have a copy in another location anyway so I can experiment without worries


Always do! I'll bet every mapmaker around here can tell you a story or two about how they lost some of their work because they did not make backups ;)
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Postby RobB » Dec 10 2006, 21:44

Next question:

Can someone please show me or point me to a good example of how to use a bomb?

I am guessing it blows up whichever adventure or landscape object you place it on/under, but where is the best place for the event?

At the moment, my best guess is to use an ordinary quest object (farm, witch hut) and to have a sequence script - conditional if correct hero and if quest is successful then delete adventure object - but I'm not very good at quest scripts. I tried to do one earlier that involved defeating some specific creatures, but I couldn't make it work and had to change to bringing a specific artifact (which did work). I suppose I could make the quest to defeat a specific named, but unaligned hero, but does that mean I have to have another event on that hero's defeated list?
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Postby wimfrits » Dec 11 2006, 7:05

RobB wrote:Can someone please show me or point me to a good example of how to use a bomb?


Lots of examples available, but you could for instance take a look at campaign 'A Wind of Thorns', map 2, underground. There is a yellow portal that is removed when exited. The removal is triggered by a placed event around the exit.

I am guessing it blows up whichever adventure or landscape object you place it on/under, but where is the best place for the event?


Any place that holds scripts. Whatever suits your needs.

At the moment, my best guess is to use an ordinary quest object (farm, witch hut) and to have a sequence script - conditional if correct hero and if quest is successful then delete adventure object - but I'm not very good at quest scripts.


Best reference on how to make quest hut is other mapmakers' work.

I tried to do one earlier that involved defeating some specific creatures, but I couldn't make it work


Instead of bringing a specific artifact; put in boolean true/false variable [name] and on the defeated script of the army you require to be defeated put action:
SET BOOLEAN TRUE/FALSE VARIABLE [name] TO TRUE
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