Q about map distribution

Maps and the art of mapmaking.

Should a mapmaker be contacted before publishing his/her map?

yes
18
78%
only some/most prominent mapmakers should be asked
0
No votes
no
5
22%
 
Total votes: 23

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Pitsu
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Q about map distribution

Unread postby Pitsu » 07 Sep 2006, 08:07

IIRC, it hasn't been discussed here at the RT for a while. Thus I would like to ask the mapmakers who happen to read it, their opinion about the following discussions:

http://elrath.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=395

and another discussion between Chuckles and Paradox(SunwindAeon):
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 015954/p/4

To highlight some points:
Mods/Maps are, unless stated, similar to public domain, that's the whole FRIGGIN POINT isn't it?
and
because id love to know who would mind having their map spread around to reach more people, and really, I honestly dont see any problem with this, nobody is claming ownership, the authors name is on the map, I know if I spent hours making a map, I would it to be on as many sites as possible so more people could find it.
versus:
Heck, you've got some maps posted on your site that were made by people who've died?!? You've got maps that were made to be exclusively distributed on certain sites...per the map-makers' wishes. Publishing those maps without the map-makers consent is pretty much theft as well.
Or in other words, is there any point in asking a mapmaker when republishing his/her map or should the publisher and maker have a "contract"?

Your thoughts?

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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 07 Sep 2006, 08:39

The mapmaker should be contacted.

I don't mind if anyone publishes mine without contacting me though.

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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 07 Sep 2006, 09:11

Unless specifically stated otherwise by the mapmaker,he should be contacted.

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Ururam Tururam
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Unread postby Ururam Tururam » 07 Sep 2006, 09:24

Yes, but no answer in reasonable time should be treated as an agreement by default. Of course such maps should be removed from the site on demand of the author.
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asandir
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Unread postby asandir » 07 Sep 2006, 09:27

that seems like the most reasonable way to deal with it right there ....
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Sir Charles
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Unread postby Sir Charles » 07 Sep 2006, 14:21

That's what I thought too. I'm sure most mapmakers aren't going to mind having their maps posted, but at least show them the courtesy of at least asking. That was the simple point I was attempting to make to Elrath/Paradox but he apparently got all offended by it and started getting rude and defensive. I just remember all the sites that were popping up back during h3 that would show up and post advertisements that they had "Over 500 Maps!!! Come and see for yourself!!!". As if they had ANYTHING to do with those maps at all. Sheesh.

Good idea posting this Pitsu, the mapmakers here can clearly give people a good idea on thier thoughts on the matter.
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Unread postby Thelonious » 07 Sep 2006, 14:25

Well, I seem to have mis-clicked here (loooong day 'o school... :tired: ), so count an extra yes instead of 1 no.

But this is quite an interesting topic, and deserves to be spoken about.

The thing is; IMO a mapmaker post his map to a/several databank(s) and if he wanted to post it anywhere else, he would've (or he/she's just lazy). So if another site wants that map as well, they should ask. Because I can remember that on some sites the maps get just the tiniest alteration and will then be posted as a new 'masterpiece'.

Ok, not having your map on every site might enlarge such a problem, but if players want great maps, then should they not put at least some effort in it?

I for one wouldn't mind to go looking for another map with a 'Wind of Thorns' level.
Grah!

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Pitsu
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Unread postby Pitsu » 07 Sep 2006, 15:32

Some thoughts against the "the more people have access to my map the better" idea, which itself has a LOT of truth of course.

I have thought that publishing a map is kind of like publishing some of your work in media. The author choses publishers who he/she trusts and tries to avoid publishers who have a history of twisting or mis-using the data. And as you perhaps know, some people even love to burn fan-made maps on a CD and sell them as special "collections", making profit. Hence potential misuse is certainly one reason why mapmakers prefer to be aware where and in which form their creation is available.

Another thing is with patching. A newly released maps sometimes have bugs, which are eliminated in a new release. A mapmaker not knowing all distributors, would be unable to update the map properly. right?

Finally, theoterically, a more closed community may have maps made for specific competitions or having stories, which are more targeted to a certain group of people than the wide public. Or maybe that is really a made-up argument that never holds true in reality. ;|

OK, so much about reasons why IMO is nice to keep the mapmaker informed of any kind of republishing or other use of their creation.

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Unread postby Ururam Tururam » 07 Sep 2006, 18:18

Pitsu wrote:Another thing is with patching. A newly released maps sometimes have bugs, which are eliminated in a new release. A mapmaker not knowing all distributors, would be unable to update the map properly. right?
That's why when I publish a map I resist all the temptations to upgrade or patch it. If it has bugs it is my shame.
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Thelonious
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Unread postby Thelonious » 08 Sep 2006, 18:50

Well, patching isn't really a shame to do, and if people ask if they can host your map you can also keep them updated with the patches.
Grah!

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Unread postby Elwin » 10 Sep 2006, 00:51

I seriously need to be contacted....found a problem in my Pained World Map(its a great one, just so terribly hard as you'll be up against like 1300+ Vampires or something) and I would like to tell them to replace my last Pained World Map or something...
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Unread postby Thelonious » 10 Sep 2006, 08:59

You should sumbit a patch to CH.
Grah!

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Unread postby Robenhagen » 10 Sep 2006, 09:11

@Elwin

I've updated the map at the test section.
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Elwin
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Good

Unread postby Elwin » 10 Sep 2006, 17:30

Thanks, man. Mapmaking has just become my new hobby.
In the diameter of the Universe, we are but a single flame. To say that we're insignificant is to give us....too little credit. But if the universe chooses you to be part of its plans, then you better let go because it makes it more fun when you don't know what's about to happen next!

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Unread postby Qarl » 10 Sep 2006, 17:37

Great points, Pitsu! Yes, the map maker should be contacted! I think people should do their very best to be as courteous as possible to those who spend their time making something for the public for free, because the author really can't do anything about it if someone decides to go ahead and do whatever the hell they want with their map. The only thing we really have here is the honor system.
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Unread postby Ururam Tururam » 10 Sep 2006, 22:16

Thelonious wrote:Well, patching isn't really a shame to do
I disagree here. When a map or anything else is really ready it does not need any patches. If it needs it only means it was released too early.

And a complete shame, awfullness etc etc, are patches to games that change the balance. Unfortunately most of present games INCLUDING HEROES V are being released incomplete. Money for the companies is more important than honour. Well, life is brutal.
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Unread postby wimfrits » 11 Sep 2006, 07:16

Ururam Tururam wrote:If it needs it only means it was released too early.
I think the question of how much a map needs a patch depends on the mapmaker's personality.

But I have never ever found a 'flawless' map. So if maps should be flawless on release then no map will ever be released.

On the question: I agree with UT that a mapmaker should be contacted but that the default answer is Yes.
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 11 Sep 2006, 16:25

Ururam Tururam wrote:I disagree here. When a map or anything else is really ready it does not need any patches. If it needs it only means it was released too early.
Disagree in turn. If some special feature of a game is changed, one might be forced to update the map. Perfect example would be H3:AB, which in one patch version had the combo artifacts and fifth artifact slot, only to have them removed in the next becuase they were too buggy.
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Thelonious
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Unread postby Thelonious » 12 Sep 2006, 13:15

Ururam Tururam wrote:
Thelonious wrote:Well, patching isn't really a shame to do
I disagree here. When a map or anything else is really ready it does not need any patches. If it needs it only means it was released too early.
Well, that's true, but still, it can also mean that there are players who are creative with your map and they play it in a different manner which creates an unforseen bug.
Grah!

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Unread postby Shuyssar » 14 Sep 2006, 20:22

Where can I download Heroes of Might and Magic 5 mapes?


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