(H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

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wimfrits
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Postby wimfrits » Oct 11 2014, 11:43

Duzeom_ wrote:In later game when you have multiple towns and goldmines - it is not an issue


There's a contradiction here.
Player 1 that relies on PoI has not yet developed his playing skills and will reach this 'later game' stage of map x on, say, day 60.
Player 2 has developed his skills and reaches this 'later game' stage of map x on day 15 and finishes the map on day 30. Player 2 has little to no need of PoIs.

Balancing PoIs affects player 1 only, the player that has more difficulty with beating the map and is probably not waiting for any 'increase of challenge' that a mapmaker is trying to force upon him.

Player 2, who would welcome an increase of challenge by the mapmaker is unaffected.
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Postby Duzeom_ » Oct 11 2014, 12:12

You assume that buying PoI is always wrong - because you can buy more army with the cash. I think PoI is too good, and even good players will use it. If PoI is always wrong tactic it is good idea to block it still.

How much army you can but with 1000? Not so many. Your hero can be much more powerful than any creature you can but with 1000 gold. PoI is wrong choice only when you have a low level hero.

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Postby wimfrits » Oct 11 2014, 15:02

Duzeom_ wrote:You assume that buying PoI is always wrong - because you can buy more army with the cash.


No. Things like heroes, skills, skill upgrades etc.
I assume that the better your tactical prowess, the less you rely on PoI. If you have learned to win battles C and D where PoIs are useless, you also will not need PoIs for easier battles A and B.
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Postby Taro » Oct 13 2014, 14:31

Sorry for long reply. So here is my point of view:

1) Every one has free choice, to use it or not. It's up to you to decide, not to me. I gave you only an option and if you want old rules, it's fine.

2) Kalah thinks it's a good mod. Duzeom too. Me - of course. So even if only we will use the mod, it was worth to make it.

3) About balance:

a) When you play on lower difficulties (1-3), the best way to win is to buy as much as you can of potions, develop combat hero and rush to the enemy. So don't tell me there are more important things to do if you want win the fastest way.

b) When you play on higher difficulties (4-5) it's hard to rush to enemy or develop combat hero fast. You are forced to build an army and create magic or tactic hero. Well, I prefer stealth hero first, and then create another one.But still, there are situations when using pois is really beneficial. You can cover your own units against ranged units. You can lose for example, 20 medusas from one shot, or one hero with poi. Wich is more expensive? 20 medusas, or potion of immortality?

c) When you play a campaign, hero becomes a war machine, that is true. Sometimes with pois you can win extremly fast. But sometimes your hero is so powerful that you don't need even pois. Depends on campaign I guess. But if you can win with one hero without pois, then creatures and other factors are not important at all.

Personally, I like to play without pois, because it's harder. If you can win easly without them, then you don't need this mod. But sometimes I need pois and there is always a temptation to spam with them to win some battles without losing creatures.

Thank you.

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Postby wimfrits » Oct 13 2014, 17:57

I'm not questoning if the mod is good or not. Using it is a choice and I think that especially in a MP game it can give play a different dimension.

I am questioning the supposed imbalance of PoI. In MP games both players can use it so there is no imbalance there. In SP games and campaign games a veteran player has little or no need for PoIs.

On high difficulty levels the best way to win is buy heroes and rush to the enemy, upgrading skills along the way. At the speed you're travelling you don't have the opportunity nor the resources to buy PoIs.
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Postby Karmakeld » Oct 13 2014, 20:22

Taro wrote:c)..sometimes your hero is so powerful that you don't need even pois. Depends on campaign I guess. But if you can win with one hero without pois, then creatures and other factors are not important at all.


Winfrits, this I what I mean with balance. Although I get your point, I do belivee it is up to each player him/herself to develop their skills and playing style. Now Equilibris added the poi to enemy heroes on champion level, to make AI harder.
Now I do believe there are other ways to balance maps accordingly to difficulty other than guessing wheter player will use poi or not. It also depends on win conditions. Like in your campaign Wind of Thorns, you could increase the movements of either AI or player in the parts where you have to escape the undead depending on difficulty, challenges like this will have no effect of poi's. You could also change AI's artifacts/stats depending on difficulty, thus making it harder for players to win without poi/healing.

But I still lack the answer to wheter it's possible to toggle the mod off, but changing a single file name or not..?
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Postby wimfrits » Oct 14 2014, 5:30

Karmakeld wrote:Now I do believe there are other ways to balance maps accordingly to difficulty other than guessing wheter player will use poi or not. It also depends on win conditions.


Exactly! :)
Other ways of balancing will affect the players that want to be challenged, instead of only the players that already have more difficulty with the game. And indeed there are lots of methods you can explore.
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Re: (H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Karmakeld » Jan 19 2016, 21:23

@Taro, you mentioned you could do a video about how to mod as well as your friend being able to change skills etc.
Trough another tread I found a way to change hero portraits in WoW version, now Equilibris changed some Class abilities, and I would like to re-mod some of them for my campaign. Could you assist me in that matter?
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Re: (H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Taro » Jan 25 2016, 19:39

What do you mean by assistance?

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Re: (H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Karmakeld » Jan 26 2016, 9:25

With the basics of how to do it/show me how it's done. I also still lack advanced class data.. But atm. I'm basically just reading numbers I have little clue what to do with..
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Re: (H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Taro » Jan 26 2016, 14:13

Well, I can change creatures stats. I also changed skill of ogre magi once and starting resources on different levels of difficulty. I could make a movie about stats, but skills and resources are really hard to change and I don't remeber how I made it.

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Re: (H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Karmakeld » Jan 26 2016, 16:50

okay. I have a work around. But the thing is, as I've recently found a way to change portraits in WoW version, I felt it would be cool to acutally have a ghost hero with aging ability and a zombie with poisonous attack. They've changed these class bonuses in Equilibris version. (Also in WoW they're opposite of how I set up my heroes. In my optic it makes more sense that a Lich would have poison attack and be zombie like and and Ninja would have aging- as the stealth skill matches a ghost more than a zombie.) Modding this to match my campaign, would leave some room, as I wouldn't have to rely on artifacts/potions to simulate the class bonus, but it seems like I'll just have to go with my current work around. But thx anyway.
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