(H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

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Taro
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(H4) - how to remove p. of immortality from shops?

Postby Taro » Sep 28 2014, 17:25

I think I'm not the only one who wish there will be no potions of immortality in the game. They make game too easy, especially when you have strong "combat hero".

I know, there is an option to block this in map editor, but it still doesn't block the potions in blacksmiths etc. And blocking shops in towns is not a solution, because some other buildings recquires shops first.

EQ team made some changes in the shoplists, but didn't remove potions of immortality. So here is my question...

Is there anyone who knows how to remove or change potions of immortality for something else? Is there anyone who can do this?

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Postby Pitsu » Oct 1 2014, 15:27

Long time since i used the H4 editor last time, but can a script be made that removes immortality potions from hero's inventory? I know it is not exactly what you want, but it may be a workaround.

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Postby Taro » Oct 1 2014, 15:39

Well, it's a second line solution. But there is a possibility you could carry potions with creatures to the heroes. Anyway you inspired me and I will make some tests.

Edit: unfortunately, there is always a possibility hero can drink piotion when he is in the town screen. But with continous and placed events you can prevent heroes from spam with potions. You can be immortal only once per drink in town :D

And I forgot: I can do mini mod which makes potions more expensive. But highest price can be "only" 9999 of gold for potions of immortality. Anyone interested?
Last edited by Taro on Oct 5 2014, 18:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Oct 4 2014, 2:13

For my maps (at least some of them) the hero won't be able to own a town, so that takes care of the potion problem.

Something you could also do is to build the building that is required by the armory / etc. and then make the armory / etc. unavailable.

Not exactly great solutions, but seems like it's all we can do without modding, which seems to be an even bigger pain :(

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Postby Duzeom_ » Oct 4 2014, 8:44

Taro wrote:And I forgot: I can do mini mod which makes potions more expensive. But highest price can be "only" 9999 fot potions of immortality. Anyone interested?


I am. How did you do that?

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Postby Kalah » Oct 4 2014, 8:48

Considering the huge imbalance in these potions, making them more expensive might actually be a good balancing move.
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Postby Taro » Oct 4 2014, 19:26

How I did it? - I "unpacked" table file from data folder with mh4 program. Then I edit price of potion with text editor and repack this into new table file. And pasted it to data. Maybe I could do mini movie about it.

I did it for H4 WoW and Equilibris. So you can have this in both versions or one of them.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work with game in polish language. Or at least with Gold Edition.

Tell me Kalah - is there possibility you will write news about mod on main page? If so, I will gladly send you these files :D

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Postby Duzeom_ » Oct 5 2014, 16:15

Share it on some page that anyone could download it. ;)

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Postby Taro » Oct 5 2014, 18:14

I will. On this page I wish :D But let's wait for Kalah's opinion.

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Postby Karmakeld » Oct 5 2014, 21:44

taro, are you familiar with modding besides changing 'text' properties?
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Postby Taro » Oct 7 2014, 15:59

I'm not but my friend knows how to change skills of creatures. If ya want something like that, I can ask him for advice. What exacly do ya want to modify?

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Postby jeff » Oct 7 2014, 22:39

It sounds to me that this mod affects files in the game itself; which means it will not be part of the map file. If this is correct; then designing a map which is balanced with your changes; could be unbalanced if the average fan is unwilling to modify their game files. If my assumption is correct then any map using your mod should explain the need to modify the required files.
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Postby Taro » Oct 8 2014, 6:27

jeff - I understand there are few maps/ campaigns which are so difficult you have to have several potions of immortality to win. And even when you spam with them you can have troubles. And with my mod they might be impossible to win.

But these maps are in minority. If ya gonna play some standard campaigns they will be harder now. That was my intention.

Kalah - thank you for upload.

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Postby Kalah » Oct 8 2014, 7:30

No problem - this is what we do. ;)
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Postby jeff » Oct 8 2014, 23:52

I am not implying you should not make your maps available. I was just pointing out that a mod that is not widely used; if it is needed to play a map; it may prevent some fans from attempting it.

I use the facetool in some of my maps. Though equally playable; the visuals do not make sense, but I use it anyway.
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Postby wimfrits » Oct 9 2014, 7:14

If it applies to all maps, I would be hesitant to use such a mod.

As for the PoI imbalance concept, I really think this is a non-issue. Buffing is usually the most efficient way to win against high odds. Dying means losing your buffs.

Sure, you can save up all your gold and win against stack x on day 20 with 40 PoIs. But you can also win against stack x on day 5 without PoIs and spending your gold in better ways.
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Postby Karmakeld » Oct 9 2014, 19:05

some might claim that healing potion might be better than poi, as it cost half, and you won't lose any Blessings cast on your hero, as you do if you're resurrected by POI. Ofcourse you'll have to make sure not to die in the first place, and it'll cost a turn, compared to using POI before battle.
But in general, I think it's more a matter of balancing the map and if map maker wants to prevent POI or spamming of such, it can be done by using scripts instead. Like Taro wrote, you can make sure player can only use 1 potion pr. hero, and it will have to be used in town. Personally I'd prefer it that way.
I think it would interesting to know how easily will it be to switch between your POI Mod and regular cost?
Like using custom portraits, you'll just need to rename one file. Can switching be done that easily with your mod?
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Postby Karmakeld » Oct 9 2014, 19:53

Taro wrote:I'm not but my friend knows how to change skills of creatures. If ya want something like that, I can ask him for advice. What exacly do ya want to modify?


I wish to add new objects (but they're obj. files) and change/add properties of objects like making a questhut based on the Tree of Knowledge.
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Postby wimfrits » Oct 10 2014, 6:54

Karmakeld wrote:But in general, I think it's more a matter of balancing the map


I'm going to try to make this clear one last time ;)
PoIs are a highly inefficient way of playing. It is
A. expensive (thus forcing a MUCH lower game pace),
B. unrewarding for the player,
C. blocking the learning curve of battle tactics,
D. useless in any interesting battle (multiple stacks, stacks with first strike).

So by 'balancing PoIs' you're forcing a challenge upon inexperienced players that are content with their style of play. What makes you think they want this? I don't see the gain here.

If you want to force a challenge upon the people that actually want to be challenged, you should do something about the extremely exploitive hit-and-run tactics.
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Postby Duzeom_ » Oct 11 2014, 10:06

wimfrits wrote:I'm going to try to make this clear one last time ;)
PoIs are a highly inefficient way of playing. It is
A. expensive (thus forcing a MUCH lower game pace),

In later game when you have multiple towns and goldmines - it is not an issue

wimfrits wrote:B. unrewarding for the player,
C. blocking the learning curve of battle tactics,
D. useless in any interesting battle (multiple stacks, stacks with first strike).


It depends on the player. There are lot of players who use PoI and the map maker must be aware of it. I think PoI is greatly inbalanced and that makes mapmaking really hard - because it is harder to choose the difficulty of enemy forces. A player who want to use PoI would simply not use this mod, and have less of a challange.

Second thing is that if you play vs human you all can use PoI so the chances are equal. Computer player can't use them so there inbalance. Especially in later maps in the campaign your hero is a war machine and PoI giver a far more greater advantage above the computer player. If PoI price could be dependend on your hero level it would be perfect, but it is imposibble, so better block it.


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