Heroes III: how would you rank the towns?

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Zubbus
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Postby Zubbus » Jul 5 2009, 14:10

Deadguy118 wrote:The best town in terms of raw firepower is Conflux (because they neglected to balance it) followed by Castle. Both have high costs, so it would be slightly harder to build them up, but Tower is the only town that would be severely crippled by having a small map or a high difficulty.

Stronghold and Fortress both have fast and somewhat inexpensive tech trees (high cost in wood and ore though) that might be better on small maps, but Hydras are junk and Behemoths are only good because you can get them in the first week with little difficulty. They also can only reach Lvl3 Mage Guilds, but Fortress at least has the best native terrain type (swamp)

The worst town is probably inferno, because it only has two really standout units (Hell Hounds and Efreet), and all the others are sub-par in comparison, not to mention the relative expensiveness for what you get.

Everything else is somewhere in the middle, but Necropolis has an obvious advantage on large maps because that means there are more skeletons to raise.


Conflux: I agree completely. Magic Elemental, by itself, is comparable to the weakest level 7s like Bone/Ghost Dragons. In fact, even unit for unit comparison undervalues the town. 1 big difference is, for other towns, you can say, oh, Black Dragons are very powerful, but the rest of the army is not particularly gold-effective. You can pick out a unit that can compares to a conflux unit, but he won't have the rest of the overpowered army to fight with in his town.
Sprite + Air elemental, and you got a shooter + no retaliation flyer for clean sweeps, and fastest on the map for a lvl 1+2 army. Add Ice Elemental and you sacrifice some speed for fire power.
Energy Elemental + Mind Elemental + Phoenix and you got a 3-stack-fire-immune armageddon army, etc, etc.

Castle: While archangels are awesome, half of the castle army - not quite as much. The whole town is well balanced and most units do their main job well (which is more than some other towns offer), and the stables is an excellent privilege to add to that, but they are nowhere near "overpowered" like conflux.

And most of us do think Inferno is the worst. Not by much. And if you play in a map where you are guaranteed to find a few more Inferno towns spread around the map, the teleport facility might even bump the town back to average.

I think most of us agree the rest are more or less average. I personally prefer the ones with some spectacular units, Black Dragons, Harpy Hags, Titans, Vampire Lords, Hydras, Mighty Gorgons, etc.

I disagree a little with the Necropolis. While you can grow a huge number of skeletons in a huge map, skeletons are also very slow and that will not help that much in a huge map where ground speed is more important. Generally Necroplois needs time to build just like the tower. They are very different so they are a lot of fun. But A LOT of units (zombies, wight/wraiths, bone/ghost dragons, pre-upgrade vampires, preupgrade lich) are just so weak the whole army is barely average, and a good deal below average if caught before it is built up.
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Postby gaspi2 » Jul 6 2009, 7:37

meheh any1 experienced frenzied archdevils?:P just give em wait command, don't cast spells that round( and pray that opponent won't blind them:D) and when they'r going last, frenzy em (got archdevils with >200 attack skill this way!)! with no retal ability and no afraid of enemy creature will move after them, rip anything to shreds. Works awesome with positive morale and luck (that's why I take leadership and luck with my inferno hero;p, and if you need to finish it off archdevils are going first right away;p)

and as for necropolis if you get lucky (really lucky;p) age smth, then follow with dreadknight and attempt luck+deathblow, there's no stack that would laugh on that;p(as well as 2000 skeletons hitting aged stack;p)

As for tower, I personally like cloning titans;p, even i't quite useless but if you managed to shoot enemy's shooters out and oppnent doesn't have any mana left even for magic arrow then why not?;p

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Postby Banedon » Jul 6 2009, 9:02

m0sh wrote:I'd never had problems beating Conflux ... I'm surprised people are calling it the best town...there are many not so good players there...so yes you can get spells easy (well u need luck also) and another player can disable spells aswell...


I'm surprised, really. Conflux has easy access to their level 7's (easily doable first week), and their growth is such that they'll beat every other race except possibly Necro if the game goes on long enough. 4 Phoenixes > 2 Archangels for example and by extension every other level 7 in the game. The longer the game goes on the stronger Conflux gets. Their early-game is solid as well.

@Zubbus - Castle units are all very good. In fact excepting the Zealots (who are still decent units) every one of Castle's units are near the top of their respective levels. I don't see why you don't think Castle has good units, although I certainly agree that they're hardly anywhere near as overpowered as Conflux.

Regarding Necro, as I understand it the idea is to mass Skeletons as soon as possible and then attack once you run out of food to raise units with. If allowed, Galthran is the hero of choice, and hopefully you get Teleport. The aim is something like 500 Skeleton Warriors in the third week, which will pretty much kill everyone, although like I said I've not managed to duplicate the strategy.
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Postby Zubbus » Jul 6 2009, 12:16

What are you talking about, the zealot is 1 of the better ones. Try comparing them to archmagi.
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Postby Banedon » Jul 6 2009, 13:53

That's because that's comparing a level 5 creature to a level 4 :)
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Postby Zubbus » Jul 7 2009, 20:26

Same gold cost though.
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Postby Metathron » Jul 8 2009, 1:03

But not the same growth. :)
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Postby Zubbus » Jul 8 2009, 13:38

Yes. Having a higher growth is very good if you have gold to spare, typical on easy difficulty.
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Postby m0sh » Jul 19 2009, 15:13

well guys , i will try conflux next time(200% of course)...but on an XL map at the end its about level 6 and 7 mostly

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you make me laugh

Postby tone » Nov 23 2011, 18:10

why do you say conflux overpowerd. have you ever heard of orb of inhibition or recanter's cloack. i beat with castle any town. search on taven for a hero with armor or offence speciality. crag hack, gundula, tazar, mephala, neela. i always find antimagic artifacts and i piss on every caster. fortress and stronghlod fall easy if yo umake armor of the damned. tower is awsome if you get orrin or at least make bow of the sharpshooter on neela. nagaqueen is best level 6 unit by far. i never lost against conflux in my life with castle or any other town i played. i always found other hero with armor or offence speciality, i put on antimagic artifact, i made angelic alliance, elixir of life and conflux went down easy. you should see 1000 spirits hit tazar and only 2 champions fall.

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Re: you make me laugh

Postby Salamandre » Nov 23 2011, 21:15

tone wrote: orb of inhibition or recanter's cloack.
hero with armor or offence speciality.
i always find antimagic artifacts
if yo umake armor of the damned.
if you get orrin or at least make bow of the sharpshooter on neela.
i always found other hero with armor or offence speciality,
i put on antimagic artifact,
i made angelic alliance,
elixir of life


Sure. And now change "I" with "my opponent also". There is no reason only you can get all the goodies while he can't. So, how it sounds now that he has also all these?

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Re: you make me laugh

Postby Star King » Nov 23 2011, 22:21

tone wrote:why do you say conflux overpowerd. have you ever heard of orb of inhibition or recanter's cloack. i beat with castle any town. search on taven for a hero with armor or offence speciality. crag hack, gundula, tazar, mephala, neela. i always find antimagic artifacts and i piss on every caster. fortress and stronghlod fall easy if yo umake armor of the damned. tower is awsome if you get orrin or at least make bow of the sharpshooter on neela. nagaqueen is best level 6 unit by far. i never lost against conflux in my life with castle or any other town i played. i always found other hero with armor or offence speciality, i put on antimagic artifact, i made angelic alliance, elixir of life and conflux went down easy. you should see 1000 spirits hit tazar and only 2 champions fall.


Implying that Conflux can't do the same things against you. Your argument relies on your opponent not being intelligent/lucky enough to do the same things you do. They can get an Armorer or Offense specialist too, you know. They can assemble Angelic Alliance and Elixir of Life too, you know (if anything, they are better at it because Conflux expands faster). The only argument here that's really relevant is Orb of Inhibition/Recanter's Cloak, since it hurts Conflux more than Castle, but that only puts on an even level in terms of magic. The Conflux units are still extremely good and can definitely compete with Castle, especially since their army will probably be larger, considering Conflux can expand extremely fast with how ridiculously good it is early game.

EDIT: Didn't see Salamandre's post, oh well.

tone
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you make me laugh

Postby tone » Nov 24 2011, 1:41

i say what i say beacause i never lost to conflux oponent. i play castle and i expand easy. with 7 archangels only i beat small dragon utopia with 0 loses, with 9 archangels i beat anything that a random map can throw at me, and with magic disabled i always have more attack and defence than the oponent has with conflux, i explore extreme fast with only archangels on me. please make the test. one angel can beat 2 phoenixes if only 1 ressurects, the archangel slaughters them. also if both players make elixir of life on castle works the 25% bonus on all units, on coflux only on spirites and birds. also tower with a good skilled neela with bow of the sharpshooter destroys conflux easy. anyway most efficient on map excepting necropolis is castle by far. the only level 7 unit that beats the archangel is ancient behemoth.

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Nov 24 2011, 6:29

Come on, even a single hero without town having only Peasants can beat Conflux. Of course, I've test it myself. On Impossible difficulty. IF said hero started with like, 10,000 Peasants right in the front door of the Conflux. That is.

Please, make u'r argument a bit more rational by discarding the unlikeliest scenarios like having ultra-powerful artifacts, dragon utopias, bazillion resources to begin with, heroes with stratospheric level, etc. And more focused to the respective towns's possible individual development at any given time, yes ?

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castle is solid argument

Postby tone » Nov 24 2011, 15:55

utopia is easy to find. archangel has 30 at and 30 def 50 damage. is a strong striker and and a defender, you do not need high level hero, if a hero has 7-8 defence and basic spells like stone skin, shield, cure he beats easy anything with 9 archangel using 5 with 4, or small utopia 4 with 3, you can use 2-3 pikeman also as bait to take one computer action, if you are lucky to have fast expert earth magic, cast expert shield and with split archangels to resurect each other, the map is sooooooooooooooooo easy. conflux player to have a fast easy map like rampart or dungeon, need to find armagheddon spell, until then it is always a danger to lose troops on map.

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Postby Banedon » Nov 24 2011, 16:41

Yeah by the time you get 9 Archangels the game will be well into the second month, when Conflux will have at least 18 Phoenixes or even 22. He will outnumber and kill you.

You must remember that Conflux expands at great speed. The last time I played Conflux I fielded 5 Firebirds and 150 Sprites on turn 8. What army can you field with Castle? Who do you think will win a fight if one happens now? What will you do if I push into your territory taking your mines with my army that you cannot beat? What if I catch you in open territory, taking advantage of the fact that my army has higher base speed and so is faster on the adventure map?

Equally skilled on equal map Conflux is unbeatable. I don't see how this is even in debate.
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ha

Postby tone » Nov 24 2011, 16:55

on turn 8 on king level you never have those, if we play easy on turn 8 i have 3 angless and i kick 5 firebird and 150 spirits with maximun ease

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Postby Banedon » Nov 24 2011, 17:12

I got those on Expert (queen level). It's doable. Conflux builds and expands fast. I haven't played Easy difficulty since forever, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had 5 Phoenixes instead of 5 Firebirds (or even 6).

Incidentally 150 Sprites + 5 Firebirds destroy 3 Angels with no problems. You will need the rest of your army.
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haha

Postby tone » Nov 25 2011, 0:53

just finished a game with a friend. him conflux 75 phoenix with mephala holding bow of sharpshooter, me tower 35 titans orb of inhibition, bow of sharpshooter, elixir of life and main hero crag hack. i gave him a slaughter he never seen for a long long time. on xl maps conflux is **** vs tower or castle.

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Re: haha

Postby Star King » Nov 25 2011, 3:42

So you need nearly one Titan for every two Phoenixes (you will probably have less most of the time) and three more extremely powerful artifacts to win (Bow of Sharpshooter is a lot more valuable to Tower, especially with Crag Hack)? Cool story bro.

Oh, and vids or it didn't happen.


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