HII in XP: nearly 100% CPU usage

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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Pol
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Unread postby Pol » 18 Apr 2008, 09:22

As to the sound you are maybe having some settings, in the sound driver, how to affect that. For every card this is can be individual, perhaps decreasing number of midi channels, some settings about auto applies effects...

Changing way how're your midi generated :-p That's all depending on your card.

Or ...install jetadio basic.
(It brings with itself its own midi fonts and engraft them into default system midi synth. )
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Unread postby MistWeaver » 18 Apr 2008, 12:02

woodtreeYJ wrote:So a combination of decrease the acceleration and disabling music/sound effect, along with turning the channel to midi, seemed to do the trick (game no longer lags), although it feels kind of sad to play without the sound =(

Thanks for all the help so far. If anyone has any more suggestions for maybe playing with the music on, that would be appreciated also (my video and sound drivers are up to date).
Try lastest game version, if your current is not. (H2 Gold. exe version 2.1)
Try running it in Win9x compatibility modes.
If this wont help - the workaround is to play DOS version of the game in the DOSBox program. However, you wont be able to play TCP/IP multiplayer games in the DOS version.

In general, your situation is pretty unusual. Whats your hardware ?

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 18 Apr 2008, 12:59

Pol wrote:It's not like I would be disagreeing with you. But you are on the different level. You are talking about how is that arranged in OS. Totally unimportant, we are one level up, in the concrete program.
Pol wrote:Right. It would obsolete the multitasking, that is why I mentioned it first time. However here is if. (And was) > If something is done wrong. Again I'm not discussing normal state of the system.
Pol wrote:Still on wrong place.. this is OS level. Not a program.
Pol wrote:Nein! OS can handle only correctly written programs. Programs which are delibarately written to obfuscate or trick the OS are avoiding such control. The same can apply for some programs just badly written, although OS have ultimate upper hand in this scenario.
O RLY ?! You have to be kidding me.. Thats freaking obvious that program can screw it up . Here

Code: Select all

while(waiting){}
Bingo! We have a most primitive waiting code, It works but that would screw other apps because it takes 100% CPU. For REAL. And I wrote that in my first post in this topic. While you saying following:
Pol wrote: main executable is spawning several inner processes, which, completely untrackable, are waiting on themself. As we are know, waiting is full time job. So if one of them is constantly waiting on the impuls it's actually taking full CPU time.
and every word of it is rubbish. "completely untrackable inner processes"?!, "constantly waiting on the impuls it's actually taking full CPU" ?!!

Yeah .. of course you were talking about some error in H2/H3 engine. Especially this sentence emphasis it: "As we are know, waiting is full time job".
Interesting, what made me think that you was talking about waiting in processes in general..
Pol wrote: because I don't know in which was written H2/3.

Look into h3 exe and you'll find "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library" which explains language, compiler and IDE.
Pol wrote: I will just comment that last one quote.

> Modern <

The H2/3 game is certainly not and processors in that time weren't either. In these times waiting was realised as I stated. And even today is, if something is not working.

That seems like a root of a trouble. You are, hmm, modern idealistic.
Why you are taking my words out of context ? "Modern processors" is the reason why modern Windows OS takes < 1 CPU time when idle. Why you put heroes here ?
Pol wrote:Again my example was for old times, I will not arrange such an experiment. As best suitable for it would be processors around the time of H2/3. (Pentium-PentiumII.)


Win95 on 486 proc. takes about as much as XP on modern processors.
Pol wrote:Thread - is visible, system manageable subprocess of some program

Im glad that its already "visible", however you wrong about second part. Programmer who writes the program manages how particular thread in his program should work. And system just distributes CPU time between processes.
Pol wrote:The H3 core is not having any thread in that sense, because itself it's already thread

Aside that this is another nonsence, heroes3 process has 7 threads "in that sense"
Pol wrote:On that level one of the procesess is amply waiting on the other one input doing it by way, which is causing this hot CPU use report. I think that is waiting or, more exactly said, synchronizing. Or not. It's just a hypothesis which I see like a likely myself.


Synchronizing threads does not causing any CPU load, when done using standard methods.
Pol wrote:However the reported load is fake. Because it's reserved CPU time and not really used. Ever.

That depends on case. In

Code: Select all

while(waiting){}
case - it would realy waste CPU. In h2/h3 case, may be not, can be tested. Still we cant realy say what is wrong there.

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Unread postby Pol » 18 Apr 2008, 19:44

You seems to be obssesed by that case and still on the wrong place. Why you not make your way back and read again what I wrote?

The heroes core thread don't have any other threads (on the OS layer)!! This should be evident. But for your convenience I will illustrate with picture:
Image
That in red is heroes3 core thread. So you are seeing it having any subthreads?
(Of course not.)
O RLY ?! You have to be kidding me.. Thats freaking obvious that program can screw it up .
That seems like consensus.
Still we cant realy say what is wrong there.
Well, with that premise I started.
Win95 on 486 proc. takes about as much as XP on modern processors.
Sigh. :disagree: Go somewhere else if you like to throwing in unrelated always right type of statements. After all blue is blue.
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Unread postby Ya5MieL » 18 Apr 2008, 19:57

I have the same problem, but can live with it. :)
After all H2 isn't among hottest games nowadays :P.

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 18 Apr 2008, 21:18

Thanks for the laugh, Pol, realy.

So .. lets start with funny picture and
Pol wrote: This should be evident. But for your convenience I will illustrate with picture. That in red is heroes3 core thread. So you are seeing it having any subthreads?
(Of course not.)
Well, ignoring incorect terminology, yes. Yes, I see those 7 threads in heroes3, just like I mentioned earlier. Dont you ? :)

Pol wrote: The heroes core thread don't have any other threads (on the OS layer)!!
Threads dont have threds. Processes have threads. (and what a hell is "thread on the OS layer" ?!)
Pol wrote: Well, with that premise I started.
I thought your theory was "untrackable" ninja-threads, no ?
Pol wrote: Sigh. :disagree: Go somewhere else if you like to throwing in unrelated always right type of statements. After all blue is blue.
Fine, then explain what you wanted to say with this:
Again my example was for old times, I will not arrange such an experiment. As best suitable for it would be processors around the time of H2/3. (Pentium-PentiumII.)
In regard to my quote.

ps:
Just in case you still confused about threads.

1) open Process Explorer
2) open one "My Computer" window
3) look at the explorer.exe process
Image
4) open few more "My Computer" windows
5) look at the explorer.exe process again
Image

Now you get it ? (if not, Im giving up.. )

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Unread postby Pol » 18 Apr 2008, 21:54

Good that you use Process Explorer.

Bad that you are still discussing something else.

Give it up. You are wrong and I have no more time for this. If you like amusing yourself, it's nice, but this is having nothing to do with a fair debate.
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Unread postby MistWeaver » 19 Apr 2008, 08:21

Pol wrote:Good that you use Process Explorer.
Bad that you are still discussing something else.
Well, the only other thing I can make out of your "subthreads" term is that you probably mean custom worker threads in the heroes3 program (excluding DirectX threads started in the same process) . In that sence - yes, but I dont see how it helps, and still heroes3 has 7 threads in total.

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Unread postby Pol » 19 Apr 2008, 09:41

In that sence - yes, but I dont see how it helps, and still heroes3 has 7 threads in total.
It's called core thread, because it's one of these seven. The main one. (Although not all app. have main thread - games usually do. Eee, original GC1 was one of nice exceptions.)

subnote:
Original GC1 is the one from OS/2.

As to the workaround, the dosbox or vdm sound(doesn't works in Vista) can make it do nicely (untested) - with DOS version of the game. As an easier I still see to check your graphic/sound driver settings and switch enhanced settings off. (Example of enhanced settings: Live effects for midi, midi channels on 48KHz, too much channels, dual view or alternatives. Simply everything what enhance your drivers capabilites and it's not normally needed. - That's better way than globally decrease accelaration capabilites.)
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 19 Apr 2008, 11:38

I don't remember the actual details, but i noticed a few times that alot of games seem to make Ctrl+Alt+Del report 100% CPU without the PC slowing down at all and me being able to run 2-3 other games at the same time...
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Unread postby ByteBandit » 19 Apr 2008, 20:25

I just recently installed my HII game on my laptop. It has XP. The game installed properly with not a problem. I am using a crack with my game so I don't have to play the CD, thus saving the life of my CD. The only drawback I have doing this, is I get no Opera music in the towns. Small price to pay I feel.
It's been 5 years or so since I played H2. And I've played H2 for years befor I played H3. I must say, it felt good to play it again! I had a hankering to play it again and so I am. It's interesting to make comparisons to H2, H3, and H4. (I don't have H5 because I have an older system.) I also have H1, but have'nt played it for many many years.
H2, is, as many of us know, a simpler game than H3 and H4. I find that's the beauty of it. Everything is pretty much straightforward in H2 and you know what you're going to get. No Underground. Not a lot of Artifacts. Not a lot of choices in the game, be it Spells, Creatures or Dwellings.
I downloaded a bunch of H2 maps to play, specifically the Lightbringer maps, which are my favorite maps of the H2 game. Also the map Tree, which is extremely fun to play.
Playing H2 again brought back all kinds of memories for me. And I am so glad I have the game. I still play H3 and H4 a lot, and for those who have never played H2 (Because of old graphics??), you are missing out on one of the best games for the PC the world has ever produced.

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 20 Apr 2008, 07:32

ByteBandit wrote: (Because of old graphics??)
IMO, H2 has one of the best graphics (in HoMM series)

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 20 Apr 2008, 18:14

I agree about the graphics. They are good. But for a lot of people who have never played H2, the graphics look old compared to, say, H5. I say forget that nonsense! Play a game that will challenge you instead. And H2 will challenge your skills. For those who have never played it, you'll see why it was rated one of the top 5 games of all time.

BAD23ro

Unread postby BAD23ro » 20 Apr 2008, 22:17

...
Last edited by BAD23ro on 25 Oct 2010, 16:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby ByteBandit » 21 Apr 2008, 21:10

That sounds great! I'd be looking forward to seeing something new for H2! I enjoy it to this day as it is, still. But some things could definitely be improved on, or changed around. There are some elements from H3 that I would like to see in H2. Just minor things. Things that would make sense rather than turn it into a H3 clone. Things so small you would'nt even really notice it, but glad you have.
I don't see adding new creatures or spells or anything like that, for instance.


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