Diplomacy and Necromancy can have a new formula

[BAD23ro]

I'm not playing Heroes 3 Shadow of Death, because I play WoG and in Wog 3.59 already tried to balance Diplomacy and Necromancy.


I made some changes for Shadow of Death 3.2 and Wog(works for any version) for Necromancy.


The new formula is:

- Basic necromancy has 5% instead of 10%;
- Advanced necromancy has 10% instead of 20%;
- Expert necromancy has 15% instead of 30%.


Artifacts:

- Amulet of the Undertaker increases necromany by 2% instead of 5%;
- Vampire's Cowl increases necromancy by 5% instead of 10%;
- Dead Man's Boots increases necromancy by 7% instead of 15%.

Cloak of the Undead King has been reduced to 15% instead of 30%.

[Muszka]

Though didn't tried, but it seems the 1, 3, 5% is too heavy reduction. Maybe on larger maps isn't, but in smaller and medium map is, at least in the start.

But just to be sure I give it a try.

[BAD23ro]

Yes, main goal was for large and extra large maps for now.

[ByteBandit]

For a balance on all maps, maybe a reduction of 50 per cent of the original numbers may be the better formula, would'nt it? Not unless you wrote instructions for each size of maps in an erm script. Switching trait files around for different sized maps is such a hassle.

[Muszka]

But, it is possible to code in erm such thing as "sensing the map"? and in such manner to change necromancy?

[BAD23ro]

@ByteBandit

For large and extra large maps seems ok. Unfortunately, I can't make for Shadow of Death using map size.

I'm expecting more suggestions in time. This formula isn't final


@Muszka

Well, in 3.59 Wog there is a script for Necromancy and you can rise even Bone Dragons from Dragons. Formula is balanced and you can't rise skeletons, zombies, wraiths from undead, elementals or spirits(perhaps in final version even from spirits with human shape aka Angels...).

About size of the map, I'll try my self in my next version of Neutral Units Bonuses where I'll try to balance bonuses after size of map, because right now on small or medium maps, is almost impossible to defeat neutrals. When I created Neutral Units Bonuses, I never thought of small, just for large and extra large.

[Muszka]

About size of the map, I'll try my self in my next version of Neutral Units Bonuses where I'll try to balance bonuses after size of map, because right now on small or medium maps, is almost impossible to defeat neutrals. When I created Neutral Units Bonuses, I never thought of small, just for large and extra large.

It's exactly what I've said. Don't understand me wrong, I'm not criticizing your intentions, I'm just try to help.

[ByteBandit]

Well, if you can get it balanced to work for all sizes of maps without switching trait files out, it will be a thing of beauty and I would use it in my games for sure. Right now, the only trait files I use are the ones that came with the updated WoG 3.58f. There are soooo many trait files out there to choose from right now. And some that are very good. While some are just horrible. I guess I should make a folder in my Data folder for all the trait files I have, eh?

[BAD23ro]

@ Muszka

Don't worry, I said and repeat myself: I need suggestions

So, don't need to apologyze to me because you doing fine


@ Bytebandit

Is for Shadow of Death so far, but if will do for wog, will be a script and will have a check for map size.

Do a folder for all ...maybe later you will need it

[BAD23ro]

Need some suggestions, since the formula was drastically changed and seems good for large and extra maps, but for small and medium ones seems underpowered right now.

Skeleton Warriors using this formula or Walking Undead? Need some suggestions and I don't have time for tests.

[Dracomancer]

My suggestion is to cut the skill values in half, and, if possible, make it hit-points limited, like in HoMM4.

[BAD23ro]

Thank you all for suggestions


The formula has been changed:

- Basic necromancy has 5% instead of 10%;
- Advanced necromancy has 10% instead of 20%;
- Expert necromancy has 15% instead of 30%.

Artifacts:

- Amulet of the Undertaker increases necromany by 2% instead of 5%;
- Vampire's Cowl increases necromancy by 5% instead of 10%;
- Dead Man's Boots increases necromancy by 7% instead of 15%.

Cloak of the Undead King has been reduced to 15% instead of 30%.


Perpahs I'll replace Lich with Wraith, so won't be overpowered anymore;)

[Dracomancer]

Don't forget to nerf the Amplifier the same way.
Another suggestion: Increase the effect of either the Boots or the Amulet by 1%, so that they add up to 15%.

[TheUnknown]

Altough this is better than the old necromancy, I would sudgest it if posible to make it lvl dependant which is good becose othervise it only matters how much opponents you fight not how good your hero is.
As it is now lvl 36 and lvl 12 hero will make the same number of sceletons if they have expert necromancy. Yes the one with lvl 36 could win lot more battles than the other but I still think lvl dependant is the way to go.
We can also have % necromancy plus some per lvl efect.

I would sudgest even more such change for diplomacy as it is the most chaotic skill in H3, if you're lucky enough to get the month of your creature then you most likely win with expert diplomacy Succubus has charm which is something I would like to see on diplomacy only that it must have a (would you like to sway some creatures to your side) question (can have also that percent od swayed creatures as the necromancers can raise their dead woops undead )

[Muszka]

The new formula seems good enough... wish I had time for test.

[BAD23ro]

@TheUnknown

I can't make for Shadow of Death level dependable, but I'll consider these suggestions for Wog.


@Dracomancer

I'll increase with 1% one of the artifacts, so can be 15%

Also, I'll see what I can do about Amplifier too



These changes will be done when I'll have time.

[BAD23ro]

I hadn't time for adjusting the formula, so my apologyze until next update.

[Pol]

Thread closed, as per request of thread founder.