New Heroes 4 Map for Testing: The Eyes

[Humakt]

This is medium size Equilibris (with some GS/WoW objects) map with underground that is designed to give players ultimate challenge (more challenge on harder difficulty settings). There are two human playable positions. The map has some background story elements (I will still add more of them) and some surprises.

I need testers mainly to help me fine tuning the difficulty as I try to make the map as challenging as possible while at the same time making it still possible to complete.

Volunteer to be a tester here and I private message you the link to the map file.

Original thread contains some spoilers: http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/ ... php?t=7856

[Muszka]

As I've said in the original thread, I would like to test your map on Champion difficulty.

[Humakt]

I sent you private message that has the link. I'm going to give the map a run myself now as well.

[Muszka]

Thanks, I downloaded it. Right now I'm a bit busy, but I'll try to make testing well.

[Muszka]

I've tried the Eyes.
I played Blue with Necro. on Champion
Luckyly I got Mansion as the creature dwelling, so my evoliution was fast.
The 3rd month beginned, and I discovered 1/3 -> 1/2 of the map, I had 8 Bone Dragons with 26 Vamps.
But...
Red arrived with something undeafeatable: 120 Black Dragons, 200 Efferet, 5600 Evil Eyes, 70 lvl Archmage, two other Heroes over 30 lvl and one over 20 lvl.

Now, I tried to go some "escape ways" but havn't noticed anything helpful.
Since my editor doesn't want to open the map(??clue?), I can't figure where should I go and/or what should I do, to have a chance.
Help?

[Humakt]

I've tried the Eyes.
I played Blue with Necro. on Champion
Luckyly I got Mansion as the creature dwelling, so my evoliution was fast.
The 3rd month beginned, and I discovered 1/3 -> 1/2 of the map, I had 8 Bone Dragons with 26 Vamps.
But...
Red arrived with something undeafeatable: 120 Black Dragons, 200 Efferet, 5600 Evil Eyes, 70 lvl Archmage, two other Heroes over 30 lvl and one over 20 lvl.

Now, I tried to go some "escape ways" but havn't noticed anything helpful.
Since my editor doesn't want to open the map(??clue?), I can't figure where should I go and/or what should I do, to have a chance.
Help?

Yes, well that's kind of the point. You have limited time to finish the scenario until the Masters of Eyes arrives, whereon the only possibility to win is to defeat him. He's supposed to be almost impossible especially on champion but if those are the figures I need to decrease the amount of creatures a bit (I won't propably touch the heroes though). I think your only chance is now to defeat other computer players and avoid that hero to outgrow him, won't be easy though and maybe not even possible.

You have more time before Master of Eyes appear on easier difficulties. You got the text message that Master of Eyes emerges and victory condition changed? Also did you see any other red armies and defeat them?

I don't know why you can't view the map, are you sure you used Equilibris map editor?

[Akul]

Since I need a break from making Elven Fury, I could test The Eyes on Medium difficulty for you.

[Muszka]

Yes I had got the message near the 6th week, but I don't think that anyone can finish a scripted medium sized map on Champion till than. After that you don't have any chance, even if you remove all the armies, 4 heroes like that are just insane. I only had once a 70 lvl hero (Alexandra the Great), but I had no enemies, it doesn't mattered that if I faced 10 or 20 or 30 Bone Dragons, and it doesn't mattered if there was two other high lvl heroes.
And to make my chances go negative, I can't buy Immo Potions, while the enemy heroes do have GA on them.
But I haven't seen any other Red Armies, in fact shortly after the Master of Eyes arrived, the Teal and Blue went out.

All in all the map is good and enjoying, and I like when I have to beat huge armies, but this is just to much. 6 weeks aren't enough and after I could run around for 100 weeks and even then I could not succed.

P.S.: I don't have Equi editor, and I don't know how to get it.

[Humakt]

Hmmm. I defeated on Chaotic Playgrounds couple armies with 70 level heroes and much superior troops to mine, but granted that one is very different map.

I'll give it a test run on expert and I halved the armies of red troops, I might give more time to defeat Keeper of Eyes for each difficulty. Strange that you didn't encounter any other red armies though. What kind of heroes you had?

I try to make the new, easier, version tomorrow for more testing (after I've given it another test run).

You get Equilibris editor when you install Equilibris, it is only optional though during installation and, if my memory serves, you have to overwrite certain file. EDIT: Checked it and the file is camp_ed_sfx.exe

Also I sent Akul the link to the map. I'll notify here when I've made new version, so you can use the same link to get the newer version too.

[Muszka]

I had two heroes near 20 lvl, a ninja with full deathmagic (excluding necromancy) + advanced scouting(no sec. skill) and a Death Knight with full tactics (excluding leadership).
Though I experienced some activity, like artifact disappearence and evil eyes defeated near the ferry, never saw anything concrete. The only armies I saw were of the purple's, but they were just perfectly though.

Now I would like to know if this map is playable on Champ, or just on Expert?

Concerning the editor, I always install the full equi. But never done that overwriting. I don't really know where to find that camp_ed_sfx.exe

[Humakt]

I've now updated the new version for the map, you can download it from the same link I gave you. Sorry for the slight delay. I did give it a couple test runs on expert and champion respectively. On expert (playing green) I was doing well but my main force was too far from my hometown as purple attacked. I couldn't take the town back. On champion I was pretty close to winning but run out of time before Masters of Eyes appeared.

List of changes:
1. I removed the blocking treasure pile near blue player's position that prevented red player to emerge to that area.
2. Added more treasures underground. Especially Town Gate scroll.
3. Added three immortality potions to the map.
4. Decreased red player armies and heroes a lot (not all of them though).
5. Added a lot more time before the Master of Eyes appears.
6. Red and purple are no longer teammates. I made this change because there could be awkward situation where purple player could retreat to unaccessible underground town.


The map should definitely be beatable after the changes, but I don't know if it's enough challenge (remember it's supposed to be difficult map). I now pass the ball to you two.

EDIT: To answer your questions: Yes the map should be playable/completable on every difficulty.

[Akul]

I don't know if this is intended or not, but one of ferry's is a one way exit.
As for playing, I had a lot of work in RL so I didn't play much. Right now, I met Teal player, but neither of us coudn't get enough courage to attack the another and neither of us is giving the other one luxury of going to far from their base. This will be an interesting game.

[Humakt]

I don't know if this is intended or not, but one of ferry's is a one way exit.

It is not intended. Seems like I left it too far into the water. I tested the ferries of course but not as a green player. Bad oversight for me but it is fixed now. Also I recommend you play the latest version if you hadn't already.

[Muszka]

I'm done
I won the map. It was a great challenge, and despite the time limit(I hate time limit), I enjoyed.
I didn't know, how much had you increased the limit, but my guess was two weeks, so I tried to finish before 3rd month. I succeded but just by a few days. The final fight was the most interesting one. The keeper of keys(?) attacked my town after I captured his two days earlier. I had a little more than 500 skeletrons and some other minorities. And I won.

But my conclusion is that I won just because of the Vampires. I got three Vamps in day 2 from the the 3rd lvl dwelling near the Castle and I had Bone Dragons in the first day of week 3. But I couldn't have been that fast without vamps.

[Humakt]

I'm done
I won the map. It was a great challenge, and despite the time limit(I hate time limit), I enjoyed.
I didn't know, how much had you increased the limit, but my guess was two weeks, so I tried to finish before 3rd month. I succeded but just by a few days. The final fight was the most interesting one. The keeper of keys(?) attacked my town after I captured his two days earlier. I had a little more than 500 skeletrons and some other minorities. And I won.

But my conclusion is that I won just because of the Vampires. I got three Vamps in day 2 from the the 3rd lvl dwelling near the Castle and I had Bone Dragons in the first day of week 3. But I couldn't have been that fast without vamps.

Good job! I presume you played it on Champion?

I recommend you try more than two heroes strategy in maps with adequate amount of experience, it is very very effective to have 3 to 4 heroes and makes a world of difference and add lot of versatility and power to your team(for Death my choice of heroes would be either Sorcerer, Necromancer and Death Knight and possibly Thief for pathfinding or replace Sorcerer and Thief with Mage).

It's not real time limit as in sense you don't lose when the time's up, though I want to see a player who can beat that Master of Eyes especially on champion. By the way, you get nice artifacts if you defeat some of those red forces that come to roam the map.

Strange thing I noticed that AI is somehow programmed in Equilibris to get Immortality Potions bonus, nice to know it can be done. I was going to beat Keeper of Eyes in my last game, but AI actually outmaneuvered me in the swamp! What a shame to get outmaneuvered by this crap AI.

I was playing Life and had no pathfinding hero so it was pretty easy to do actually yet AI made circles around objects to avoid me. Wouldn't have mattered though if I'd beaten Keeper of Eyes time was already up for me and hence I increased timelimit a bit more.

Want to give another faction a go on Champion? Would be nice to see if you can make it with another team than Death.

Hmm, what I need now is someone, well, not so good player to test easier difficulties (novice and intermediate).

[Muszka]

Of course I played on Champ, else what is so big deal in having Bone Dragons in day 15.
Intesting idea, that with the 3 or 4 heroes. Some time ago I tried it, but in some maps makes the early lvlupping too slow. I sould try it once more, this map has just enough Dream Teachers and Learning Stones, so it may be OK.
You say that there is no time limit, but indeed if someone can beat 5600, 120 Black Dragons and 200 Eferets and 70 lvl hero, without bonus troops, in the 3rd month, he/she must be the king/queen of H4. Now I don't know what are the new numbers, but I'll try.
Oh, and now I met red armies, I mean Red heroes, I've had beaten one whom had combat. I needed about 5 loads to beat him without loosing Vampire or Bone Dragon. But indeed he was generous at the end -> Nice idea, the walking "artifact bank" "protected" by a hero.

As for the Guardian Angel what the AI receives, it occours only on Expert and Champ and only for heroes above lvl 10.

Now I have a question: how do you made that the green player has his turn before red player? I never thought this is possible.

Hmm, what I need now is someone, well, not so good player to test easier difficulties (novice and intermediate).

Oh, I can be inexperienced if I want , but I would rather play it with another faction just to see if it can be done without Vamps.(your point)

As for inacessibiliy, I don't have to check, since it's a full hand-made map, and you already checked everything?

Oh, and one more. The dragons and their treasure near the entrance to the puple's area is just eyecandy on Champion? Since the Master of Eyes is a tough one, and I don't think those dragons are defeatable on Champion before the 3rd month. When I get there, with 1 week before I won, there were 4 Mega, 6 Black, and 30 Faerie Dragons. That's devastating.

[Humakt]

I did decrease the amount of creatures for Master of Eyes army, a lot, but didn't touch the heroes. For other red armies I decreased heroes (except for Barbarian) as well as armies. They are still very intimidating though, maybe too much even. But at least you don't have to tackle with them unless they come for you.

I think Green player gets turn before red player because green is human selectable, that's the only logical explanation I have for it.

No need to check inaccessibility. But if you do find any bugs (like that ferry thing) please inform me.

Dragons initial numbers are 1 Mega, 3 Black and 6 Faeries. But they get much boost from the game (not from the map) on champion. I guess Purple defeats them on easier difficulties so that treasure area seldom is available for players (though if you were to try to defeat Master of Eyes you could just as well defeat dragons along the way).

[Muszka]

I think Green player gets turn before red player because green is human selectable, that's the only logical explanation I have for it.

Still I havn't noticed such in any game before. But it doesn't matters that much.

But if you say MoE is defeatable, I must try it, and I must try to deafeat those dragons too. It makes my mind to itch...

[Humakt]

But if you say MoE is defeatable, I must try it, and I must try to deafeat those dragons too. It makes my mind to itch...

I'm not actually sure if Master of Eyes is defeatable, I have yet to try it myself and I seriously doubt I succeed doing so on harder difficulties if at all.
But if you want to try to defeat Masters, I recommend that novice difficulty as he has much less army on it (you have a lot more time too before he emerges on the map).

[Muszka]

The challenge would be to succed on Champion, but before I talk I should look at the new army size, so I give my opinion later.