HoMM III: Best level 1 creature

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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In my opinion, the best level 1 creature is

Halberdier
14
16%
Centaur Captain
34
40%
Master Gremlin
15
18%
Familiar
0
No votes
Skeleton Warrior
9
11%
Infernal Troglodyte
1
1%
Hobgoblin
1
1%
Gnoll Marauder
3
4%
Sprite
8
9%
 
Total votes: 85

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Metathron
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HoMM III: Best level 1 creature

Postby Metathron » Nov 15 2007, 19:51

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Nov 15 2007, 20:05

Centaurs, without a doubt. Top stats were they matter.
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Postby Humakt » Nov 15 2007, 20:08

Have to go with doom of slow walker-neutrals: Sprites.
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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Nov 15 2007, 21:54

*sigh* watch as the the stupid, unbalanced conflux units win every poll but level 3, 4, and 5.

Anyway I won't vote for conflux units since they're *optional* and not even in my H3 game. (As I explained somewhere else)

My vote goes for halberdiers, because for some reason centaurs tend to die more.

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Postby Metathron » Nov 15 2007, 23:00

*sigh* watch as the the stupid, unbalanced conflux units win every poll but level 3, 4, and 5.


I think you're being overly gloomy, and I hope I don't get proven wrong. :-D

I don't see why the sprite should just win this hands down. It has some above average stats, as well as some outright abysmal ones, so there... ;|
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Postby Banedon » Nov 15 2007, 23:47

Centaurs thump everyone in this level, including Sprites. Only reason not to pick Centaurs would be if you're playing Necropolis and Galthran :)

JollyJoker wrote:Growth factor? Ah, yes. Right. That would make Storm Elementals still best level 2 - but Phoenix best level 7 and Sprites best level 1 - undisputedly I presume.
Price might be a factor as well. But then still Sprites, Storm Elementals and Phoenixes lead the list - but now Magic Elementals are leading the list as well.
So whatever you include or not - the flux will be there - even if you put in WORST unit, of course.


Notwithstanding Sprites' 50 growth / week, they can't do what level 1 creatures do best - absorbing retaliation - and they have some paltry stats. I'm very much for Centaur Captains being the best level 1 unit, edging out the Halberdiers by virtue of speed.
Last edited by Banedon on Nov 15 2007, 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby darknessfood » Nov 15 2007, 23:48

Centaurs are reallynice and fast :D!

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Postby Muszka » Nov 16 2007, 0:35

As in H2, I've done some tests with H3 too.
Although Haldberdiers with their +2 defense made them a bit stronger in one on one, but the speed of centaur is makes his more useful thus more powerful in a real battle.
The others don't really have a chance in this dispute. If something worth mentioning is the MGremlins ranged attack, and Sprites with bless.

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Postby dallasmavs41 » Nov 16 2007, 1:55

I like the stats of the Skeleton Warrior. It may not have the best HP or speed, but the attack and defense are solid.

I didn't know the Halberdier had the resisting joust ability. Guess you learn something new every day.

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Postby UndeadHalfOrc » Nov 16 2007, 2:29

Believe me, it took me a long time for me to know about it too. A big reason for this is that both creatures come from the same castle and so are rarely opposed, not to mention that this specialty is undocumented.

The AI is also unaware of this property as well. I just tested a halberdiers vs champions fight and the AI was maneuvering his champion to maximize their movement, as usual, yet it gave him no bonus.

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Postby Muszka » Nov 16 2007, 2:33

It's true, the skeletron is a fairly good unit, I liked them much more than the Zobies and Wraiths, in fact if I had money I turned them into Skeletron. But the skeletrons real power was in their numbers.
How the tavern once said: "there is safety in the numbers, especially if those numbers are in thousands."

The Halberdier only recieved that immunity only in WoG, or am I wrong?

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Postby asandir » Nov 16 2007, 2:42

I like the sprite, being a huge conflux fan, and no retal fan as well these guys with their speed and growth can be awesome at the start of the game, centaur captain and halbardier are very close due to their stats
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Postby PhoenixReborn » Nov 16 2007, 2:49

I have limited experience with heroes 3. But in that limited experience the halberdiers were a flippin pain in the ***. They seemed pretty durable, maybe because of the hero.

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Postby Mirez » Nov 16 2007, 20:52

obviously master gremlins with sceleton warriors as second

their the only units that really have any impact in lategame
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Postby Meandor » Nov 16 2007, 21:00

Banedon wrote:Notwithstanding Sprites' 50 growth / week, they can't do what level 1 creatures do best - absorbing retaliation - and they have some paltry stats. I'm very much for Centaur Captains being the best level 1 unit, edging out the Halberdiers by virtue of speed.


It doesn`t matter that they can`t absorb retaliation, what matters is that you can destroy huge armies of slow walkers on the very first turn. So yes, sprites for me.
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Postby Jolly Joker » Nov 16 2007, 22:10

The interesting thing here is that people are voting "best" creature for completely different reasons.
If, for example, you vote the skeleton best you don't vote skeleton best you vote Necromancy best because it's Necromancy which makes Skeletons a factor in late game, not the skeleton as such.
If you vote Master Gremlin you don't vote Master Gremlin, but you vote a combo because if you have ONLY master Gremlins without bodyguards they just die.
If you vote Sprite you vote either numbers as well and/or price (they are cheap for what you get) because ONE Sprite certainly is weaker than ONE Centaur Captain.
Conversely, if you vote Centaur Captain you just see the fact that a Centaur Captain as such - stats and only stats - is the strongest unit.

So the question is, what does BEST unit mean, actually.
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Postby Metathron » Nov 16 2007, 22:34

I agree with you to some extent, for example it may not seem fair to consider necromancy as a pro for skeletons, but on the other hand, why not? Also, it may not be realistic to expect people to view the creatures in isolation or pit them against one another in duels that would never happen in an actual game (though it's fun!).

In my experience, words such as "best" or "greatest" elude definition precisely because they are so all-encompassing and open to interpretation. This can be just as much of a curse as it can a blessing. Personally, I am enjoying the diversity of viewpoints exhibited herein. :D
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Postby asandir » Nov 16 2007, 23:39

exactly metathron, to define BEST in this context to say best stats 1x1 would be a boring poll, cause there's gonna be very little discussion, there has to be an element of game mechanics to the decision as well, even though the BEST becomes a little ambiguous becuase of it
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Postby Banedon » Nov 17 2007, 1:38

Meandor wrote:It doesn`t matter that they can`t absorb retaliation, what matters is that you can destroy huge armies of slow walkers on the very first turn. So yes, sprites for me.


Who says? If Rampart wants to destroy huge armies of slow walkers on the first few turns, he can just start massing Grand Elves (which is, of course, why Rampart should rush the Grand Elves and not wait till the start of the second week). If Castle wants to do the same he can mass Marksmen.

If, for example, you vote the skeleton best you don't vote skeleton best you vote Necromancy best because it's Necromancy which makes Skeletons a factor in late game, not the skeleton as such.
If you vote Master Gremlin you don't vote Master Gremlin, but you vote a combo because if you have ONLY master Gremlins without bodyguards they just die.
If you vote Sprite you vote either numbers as well and/or price (they are cheap for what you get) because ONE Sprite certainly is weaker than ONE Centaur Captain.
Conversely, if you vote Centaur Captain you just see the fact that a Centaur Captain as such - stats and only stats - is the strongest unit.


Necromancy and Galthran are the only things that make Skeletons good.
Master Gremlins just deal too little damage.
Sprites are good, but they can't absorb retaliation late-game nor deal much damage.
Centaur Captains are simply the best level 1 unit.
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Postby Muszka » Nov 17 2007, 4:16

I think that 'Best' is one of the subjectivest words. Anyhow I agree partially with JJ's opinion. And if so, there sould be two votes for the best 1st lvl (or any other) : one for the isolated world, and one for the effectivenes, and takeing count of the growt; possible stats, skills, spells of the native hero; necromancy; price; stats; and/or other modifiers.
In the isolated world, in a one on one fight, the halberdier would win, but just. The +2 def. would give him some advantage in front of CCaptain, though with higher numbers (500+ units) the CC could kill enough creatures because of his first two hits, what could turn the fight in his favour.
If we step outside the utopic world, I think that no matter the Centaur C's good stats & speed, the Halberdier's capability to withstand great damages, no matter the Sprites' speed & no retal, not even the Mgremlins ranged attack, the Skeletron W's number will triumph, even with an average necromancer, not to mention Isra, or Vidomina. Maybe in a small map, with rush attack they couldn't win, but it depends on some things.

And after all these I say that I've voted for Ccaptains. And if I should vote once again, I would vote the same. Why? Because I simply like them.
And that's why I call 'best' subjectiv, and I think, that's the beauty in it.
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