Gathering Storm - Life and Death Scenario trouble

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mrPassenger
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Gathering Storm - Life and Death Scenario trouble

Unread postby mrPassenger » 05 Sep 2007, 14:34

So I'm on the last scenario of the Alita Eventide campaign.

I have the ring of light, and I have the cloak of darkness. But I do not seem to get the promised '1 guardian angel' at the beginning of each combat. Has anyone else encountered this?
I'm finding the scenario impossible - but would be MUCH easier if I had these promised angels that's for sure.

I captured the first 2 towns quickly, and with minimal casualties, but the enemy is already so powerful and has so many high level troops that I'm routinely slaughtered.

Any advice for this scenario? It doesn't seem to be a problem scenario for anyone else as far as I can tell.
Thanks in advance,
-mrPassenger

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Re: Gathering Storm - Life and Death Scenario trouble

Unread postby Qurqirish Dragon » 05 Sep 2007, 21:15

mrPassenger wrote:So I'm on the last scenario of the Alita Eventide campaign.

I have the ring of light, and I have the cloak of darkness. But I do not seem to get the promised '1 guardian angel' at the beginning of each combat. Has anyone else encountered this?
I'm finding the scenario impossible - but would be MUCH easier if I had these promised angels that's for sure.

I captured the first 2 towns quickly, and with minimal casualties, but the enemy is already so powerful and has so many high level troops that I'm routinely slaughtered.

Any advice for this scenario? It doesn't seem to be a problem scenario for anyone else as far as I can tell.
Thanks in advance,
-mrPassenger
I just did this map yesterday. You cannot eliminate the enemy, as it has a town that you cannot access. Instead, you should locate the the keymaster tents, and follow that path. I found that I generally had enough money to buy all the forces from the Haven town and associated dwellings (particularly the extra angels!), and still have cash left over. Buy a few immortality potions if you need them. Also, remember that spells like cancellation will remove that guardian angel you thought you had (even ones granted from a PoI get cancelled). Also, guardian angels won't save you from a disintigration spell (which is what I think the evil sorceresses cast).

I could have wiped the floor with them if I had just managed to get one more level of magic resistance (my Alita only has mster level, and so only has 80% resistance. Not quite enough :(

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Re: Gathering Storm - Life and Death Scenario trouble

Unread postby Paulus1 » 05 Sep 2007, 21:32

mrPassenger wrote: I have the ring of light, and I have the cloak of darkness. But I do not seem to get the promised '1 guardian angel' at the beginning of each combat. Has anyone else encountered this?
I'm finding the scenario impossible - but would be MUCH easier if I had these promised angels that's for sure.
You don't get an angel, but the spell "guardian angel" (life magic, lvl 5) cast on your hero before combat begins.

What skills does your hero have?
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Unread postby mrPassenger » 05 Sep 2007, 21:32

Thanks Qurqirish!
OOPS - I realize now that I AM getting the guardian angel - I was thinking I would get the angel creature, I forgot about the spell. My bad.
I'll give it another try tonight - and take more of a 'run and avoid' tactic than a kill the enemy tactic. In fact there were a number of scenarios in heroes 4 that I had trouble with until I realized that I could just avoid some of the enemies and achieve objectives.
By the way, what does POI stand for?

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Re: Gathering Storm - Life and Death Scenario trouble

Unread postby mrPassenger » 05 Sep 2007, 21:35

Paulus1 wrote: You don't get an angel, but the spell "guardian angel" (life magic, lvl 5) cast on your hero before combat begins.

What skills does your hero have?
Heh, just figured that out.
As for skills, I'm at work right now, but if I recall correctly I've maxed out life magic, most of death magic, and made a little progress in nature which I've come to kind of regret. I did not focus on my combat skills or tactics skills at all. That was what the other hero was for before the nitwit got himself kidnapped. Hope I can finish!

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Unread postby Cem » 05 Sep 2007, 21:40

gathering storm is an excellent expansion I recommend to all.
btw If I remember right guardian angel is at heroes 4 , when Alista dies she automatically resurrects.

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Unread postby Banedon » 06 Sep 2007, 01:19

I can't remember any difficulty with any of the heroes, on Champion difficulty, after the first mission. Maxing the associated Combat skills make your heroes almost invulnerable. Since you write that the extra 'Angels' could've helped you a lot, I can only guess that you built Alita wrongly. Give her maximum Combat, then max Life Magic. You'll probably lose the Dark Priest class, but trying to keep the class makes the game a lot harder. If you have maxed Combat, you can easily perform hit-and-runs on the enemy and eventually wear them down.

POI = Potions of Immortality, and are really good buys for the campaigns. Past the first mission on almost all Heroes 4 campaigns, I never had to rely on creatures for damage.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Unread postby mrPassenger » 06 Sep 2007, 15:31

Thanks for everyone's advice.
I restarted the mission last night, and have basically got it in hand I think.
I've managed to conquer the whole map except for the final town.
I can't attack it yet or I get slaughtered, but the enemy won't venture from it so I think i can just bide my time for a few weeks and build up troops for another assault. He's got a lot of nasty creatures behind those walls and I'm either going to need a lot of troops - or trick him into venturing out far enough that I can take the castle before he gets back.

Qurqirish - you weren't quite correct (or perhaps had the wrong map in mind) in that you can and must beat the town "Hand of Death" in order to win the scenario. There is a portal that takes you right behind it.

Banedon, - you are probably correct in that I didn't optimize her build - I wanted to stay with the "Dark Priest" class as it seemed to be what she was meant to be. Also, I have no desire to replay the earlier scenarios to change her!

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Unread postby Qurqirish Dragon » 06 Sep 2007, 21:47

mrPassenger wrote:Thanks for everyone's advice.
Qurqirish - you weren't quite correct (or perhaps had the wrong map in mind) in that you can and must beat the town "Hand of Death" in order to win the scenario. There is a portal that takes you right behind it.
OK. Maybe it was another map. I do recall the map where you need to use a portal to get in the back-way. The town had practically no defenders when I went for it. Maybe there was another force that was too far away, and so I didn't see it.

Right now I am on the final TGS campaign, and I am finding it a bit boring. with 5 built-up heroes, most battles are a snap. Occassionally I'll split off my two heroes with GM steelth, or two with GM resistance for specific battles (the former for free experience, the latter for large stacks of evil sorceresses)

I'm a bit disappointed with this so far (I'm part ways into map 2 of the campaign.)

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Unread postby Banedon » 07 Sep 2007, 05:01

Banedon, - you are probably correct in that I didn't optimize her build - I wanted to stay with the "Dark Priest" class as it seemed to be what she was meant to be. Also, I have no desire to replay the earlier scenarios to change her!
Unfortunately if you stay a Dark Priest you make it difficult for yourself - after all, without Combat, you can barely make use of the Dark Priest's special abilities. But yes, I can fully understand how frustrating it can get to replay the entire scenario :)
Right now I am on the final TGS campaign, and I am finding it a bit boring. with 5 built-up heroes, most battles are a snap. Occassionally I'll split off my two heroes with GM steelth, or two with GM resistance for specific battles (the former for free experience, the latter for large stacks of evil sorceresses)

I'm a bit disappointed with this so far (I'm part ways into map 2 of the campaign.)
Yeah, it gets boring. In fact all the campaigns past the first mission (except possibly Lysander, which can be difficult if you focus on just Protheo and Lysander) are barely more than mop-up. I remember I won the final TGS campaign with just Dogwoggle - the guy was a crazy level 47 and could solo all the way to the final battle (and win it!). No Potions of Immortality, but who cared? If you don't use Combat skills on all the heroes though it'll probably be considerably tougher, since they can all go down in a blow - make sure you carry Divine Intervention then.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Unread postby mrPassenger » 07 Sep 2007, 14:59

Banedon wrote: Unfortunately if you stay a Dark Priest you make it difficult for yourself - after all, without Combat, you can barely make use of the Dark Priest's special abilities. But yes, I can fully understand how frustrating it can get to replay the entire scenario :)
.
Excellent point - I forgot about her special ability, so I'm not making use of it - I don't use her for combat. I realize now that it would have made a big difference. That's an excellent ability to couple with the 'extra guardian angel'.

At any rate - I finished the scenario last night. I tried a bunch of attack the castle, run away battles to wear the enemy down - and it was working, but eventually they just left the castle and I attacked it for an easy win.
Thanks for everyone's help.

On to the last campaign.

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Unread postby mrPassenger » 13 Sep 2007, 15:18

Yeah, it gets boring. In fact all the campaigns past the first mission (except possibly Lysander, which can be difficult if you focus on just Protheo and Lysander) are barely more than mop-up. I remember I won the final TGS campaign with just Dogwoggle - the guy was a crazy level 47 and could solo all the way to the final battle (and win it!). No Potions of Immortality, but who cared? If you don't use Combat skills on all the heroes though it'll probably be considerably tougher, since they can all go down in a blow - make sure you carry Divine Intervention then.
Ok, thanks to everyone's help I'm on the last campaign - and some of my poor earlier skill choices are catching up with me. Specifically, other than Dogwoggle, none of my heroes took Combat skills, and therefore - most have no magic resistance - enter evil sorceresses - and my heroes are getting insta-killed left and right. No other creatures even come close to threatening me - but these sorceresses are causing a problem. Also unfortunately I do not have divine intervention - and so far haven't found any potions of immortality.
*sigh* - just curious about any advice for taking on these sorceresses?

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Unread postby Banedon » 13 Sep 2007, 16:18

mrPassenger wrote:Ok, thanks to everyone's help I'm on the last campaign - and some of my poor earlier skill choices are catching up with me. Specifically, other than Dogwoggle, none of my heroes took Combat skills, and therefore - most have no magic resistance - enter evil sorceresses - and my heroes are getting insta-killed left and right. No other creatures even come close to threatening me - but these sorceresses are causing a problem. Also unfortunately I do not have divine intervention - and so far haven't found any potions of immortality.
*sigh* - just curious about any advice for taking on these sorceresses?
This is going to be trouble :(

Try deploying only Dogwoggle (that is, split your army). Give Dogwoggle Alita's items (so he has one charge of Guardian Angel). You might be able to solo them. If not, use your hero's array of tricks. Do you have Hypnotize? Maybe you can hide Kozuss (or Bohb, or whoever has it) behind Dogwoggle at the start so you can get off a cast. Do you have multiple copies of Confusion / Song of Peace / Wasp Swarm? Maybe you can disable enough of them (and yourselves...) so that Dogwoggle can kill them all. Maybe you can use summoned creatures to help block the line of sight as well (Summon Phoenix is probably best since you essentially get two copies of them - the first stack dies, you still have a blocker with Rebirth). You can probably make your way to Hexis, but beating him may not be possible.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Unread postby mrPassenger » 13 Sep 2007, 16:43

Banedon wrote: You can probably make your way to Hexis, but beating him may not be possible.
Ouch!!! :S
Thanks for the advice, though now I'm scared. I usually only get off one song of peace, which doesn't help when there are 3 stacks. I'll try using some spells that I normally ignore - I've found in the past that I've ignored spells that are actually quite useful later in the game.

My plan is to use any further levels gained toward trying to get some basic combat skills for some of the heroes, and hopefully some magic resistance. It might be too late, though there seems to be at least a couple of experience trees, and black dragon arenas that will help along the way. I'll let you know how it goes.


So as a note for the future - is it generally a given to take basic combat for all heroes?

As a side note, for those who are wondering if the various scenarios can be completed with 'magic only' skills - the answer is yes! (except maybe the last campaign - answer coming soon!)

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Unread postby Qurqirish Dragon » 14 Sep 2007, 12:51

mrPassenger wrote:
Banedon wrote: You can probably make your way to Hexis, but beating him may not be possible.
Ouch!!! :S
Thanks for the advice, though now I'm scared. I usually only get off one song of peace, which doesn't help when there are 3 stacks. I'll try using some spells that I normally ignore - I've found in the past that I've ignored spells that are actually quite useful later in the game.

My plan is to use any further levels gained toward trying to get some basic combat skills for some of the heroes, and hopefully some magic resistance. It might be too late, though there seems to be at least a couple of experience trees, and black dragon arenas that will help along the way. I'll let you know how it goes.


So as a note for the future - is it generally a given to take basic combat for all heroes?

As a side note, for those who are wondering if the various scenarios can be completed with 'magic only' skills - the answer is yes! (except maybe the last campaign - answer coming soon!)
Getting to Hexis, and getting the Immortality potions should not be too hard. There are several potions guarded by goblin knights and a few of another creature (different potion stacks have different guardians. You can either fight through to get them- in which case, since the majority of the creatures are melee-walkers, quicksand is great. I had two characters constantly adding quicksand, while others used mass ward/mass fervor/mass fortune when time permitted. Of course, you need to get rid of any sorceresses quickly so they don't cancel the buffs. (mass) healing does the job to keep everyone alive. With only one hero having combat, summon water elementals (ice bolt, fatigue), fire elementals (ranged), or waspwort (ranged) will help has well. (all of my heroes except Bohb had archery, so I didn't need these). Teleport is also good to keep the gargantuans and knights away (sorceresses move by teleport, and goblin knights may resist the spell, so it isn't as useful on them)
Casting fear on the bard may help as well, as she won't be retaliated against (in melee), and the same melee attack will cast song of peace on the involved stack (special ability from the bard's artifact set).
If you have a moment available, regeneration wouldn't hurt either.

If you cannot fight the stacks guarding the potions, then send in all heroes with grandmaster stealth (you definitely have one; I had two), and they can get most of the potions without fighting (and earn some XP in the process).

The quicksand trick, plus blur, the appropriate ward(s) should let you get through either the gargantuans or the champions, even with poor or no magic resistance. I believe there is a cloak that gives 100% magic resistance somewhere as well. Your GM stealth hero with least levels should go find it quickly (fewest levels so s/he may gain a couple when sneaking by all the enemy stacks to gather any artifacts lying around; I think there are a couple ranged weapons as well, which will help)

Good luck!

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Unread postby mrPassenger » 17 Sep 2007, 14:43

Hexis is defeated!
So, after my post about my troubles, and getting some helpful advice from this forum - I tackled the campaign again this weekend.

For the first scenario - I just split of Doggwoggle - and let him confront any stacks with sorceresses.
This guy is the definition of a tank. He waded through with no problems.
The second scenario - I couldn't believe how easy it was. I had captured all 4 town so fast that the rest of the map was left
unexplored. So I reloaded an earlier save, let the green enemy hang on for a bit while I went around collecting power ups and leveling up.
I manage to get Divine Intervention spell for my dark priestess - this spell turns out to be KEY in the final battle.
My plan to try to get some last minute magic resistance didn't work though, I ended up giving all my leveling up heroes some combat related
skills, but never once got offered any magic resistance. Looks like I'd have to face hexis without it.

Finally, the last scenario. I see I have 3 options, Might, Magic, or Haste. Haste sounds like a trap - and since Doggwoggle's been carrying
the team, I choose the Might Path. The battles are many, and tedious...as they are all basically the exact same stacks. I find what works and
use it repeatedly. Mana becomes an issue sometimes, so I alternate which heroes cast spells and that seems to work.
I plow through the path and reach hexis before the first month is even close to being finished.

And he kicks my ass. Actually it was close. It comes down to a few stacks of monsters against Doggwoggle. Doggwoggle uses his turn to drink
Potions of Immortality or health - and still does significant enough damage on his retaliation that he's gaining ground.
Then I run out of potions, and that's it for Dogwoggle.

Back to an earlier save, I think I can probably pick up more potions on the other paths - so I go to the path of haste.
Same tedious battles, the odd potion - not many power ups - I don't even attempt Hexis, as I can now see that the Magic Path has some nice artifacts
that are going to come in handy. So I go back again and try the path of magic - I still have months left - but I'm worried that maybe Hexis' army
is growing while I waste time. (still not sure if it did or not). The path of magic has many tedious stacks (again) with sorceresses - so Doggwoggle
does the dirty work - and the rest of the gang just join up with him long enough to heal him. They make it to the end - the artifacts are OK,
but I picked up a lot more potions on the way - perhaps they'll help.

The final battle goes something like this.
The bard casts summon mantis repeatedly. The Mantis' can cross the screen - and distract the enemy which really seems to focus on them - and it keeps
the action at the other end of the screen while Doggwoggle makes his way down - heading for the sorceress' first.
The Archmage is using direct damage spells, as is Bohv(?) (Disintegration etc...)- they take out Hexis early.
Meanwhile the dark priestess repeatedly is casting divine intervention as thanks to the Gargantuans - around 2 heroes die a turn! Including sometimes Doggwoggle who is receiving the bulk of the punishment being surrounded by sorceresses, goblin knights, gargantuans, and those death knight thingies.
Not sure I could have done it without Divine Intervention.

Anyways, I managed to do it - thanks for everyone's advice and help - it was a pretty enjoyable game. It was cool to be able to bring the heroes from the previous campaigns, - and to just have an army of heroes, though I think the game could use better map design for the last scenarios instead of relying on repeating creature stacks a much as it did.

Thanks again! - now, where's that winds of war disk?


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