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The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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asandir
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Postby asandir » Aug 27 2007, 6:51

So I got my copy of HIV back, after a long time, and got right back into it - playing Elwin and Shaera and the True Blade to completion, started Half-dead now, never actually finished a campaign apart from Elwin and Shaera in previous playthru's of the game .... and it's really playing well for me

my army in the true blade was insane, Lysander, Proetho, Sir Kentaine, Desette, plus my other two nutcases were just unstoppable, Desette and Proetho were the obvious spellcasters, but had them learn some combat and archery as well, they mastered Life and Order magic, with enough nature to provide Mass Speed for a nice boost, then the mass life and order spells ruled the roost .... first time I've ever played with that many heroes in an army .... was nice

I guess it's nice to come back to this game after not playing it for about 4 years and start it afresh, it's got some great features that I've missed, but I do think the flaggable adventure structures (although good in that you don't have to waste a hero on micromanagement) is a little bland .... not sure there is a great solution, well implemented caravans, daily creature growth are great IMO ....
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Postby asandir » Aug 29 2007, 3:58

still in the first campaign of Half-Dead .... he's got expert death magic, expert necro, basic demonology, basic Occultism), advanced combat, basic archery, basic Nature magic I think, probably missing a couple of things

love the nature and death magic combo!

summoning imps - 50 odd of them, very cool!
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Postby pepak » Aug 29 2007, 5:01

Yeah, Sumon Imp seems a bit too strong compared to all other Summon * spells.

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Postby asandir » Aug 29 2007, 8:51

just in the early game, it's a real breaker, especially since the AI often targets the summons
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great

Postby Elwin » Aug 29 2007, 13:10

great job on the Half-Dead campaign so far, but it's very hard from then on, especially in the other following scenarios where you have to take the enemy out hard before they recruit a powerful enough army so that it's nearly impossible to win against them. I had a case when the enemy had so many recruits that I couldn't even defeat half of their full strength.

The Waerjak and Chaos campaigns are the hardest....mainly the first scenarios where your heroes are very weak and you start off with no castle. Elwin and Shaera is the easiest of all campaigns - I got a rank of an Ogre Mage on my most recent playthrough. Half-Dead or the Pirate's Daughter are the hardest, while Emilia's campaign makes for good gameplay.
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Postby asandir » Aug 30 2007, 1:51

well, things are pretty easy at this stage, managed to nab a couple of levels and got some nature .... now I'm a Demonologist and that really helps - 91 imps at a time makes things a lot easier

the difficult part will be maintaining it ... one or two combat skill choices will change me back to an assassin and I prefer the demonologist by far, but I need the combat skills too :( Oh well, I should be offered more nature now .... I just gotta get hold of a Mass Speed spell and things will definately look up :D
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Postby Akul » Aug 30 2007, 9:35

Have you tried playing without Combat skills? Sure it makes game harder, but also increases the tactical element because you must use your armies more as well as protect the hero.
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Postby Banedon » Aug 30 2007, 10:28

pepak wrote:Yeah, Sumon Imp seems a bit too strong compared to all other Summon * spells.


Nah, the game's single best summon spell is probably Summon Leprechaun, followed closely by Summon Water Elemental :)
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Postby Elwin » Aug 30 2007, 13:09

For some reason I never ever learn combat with my heroes. Usually I just stick with Nature and make the hero learn Chaos Magic + Grandmaster Nature Magic, followed by some Scouting skills, if I get anymore levels than that I just learn whatever appears.
In the diameter of the Universe, we are but a single flame. To say that we're insignificant is to give us....too little credit. But if the universe chooses you to be part of its plans, then you better let go because it makes it more fun when you don't know what's about to happen next!

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Postby Kalah » Aug 30 2007, 13:10

I should really finish making that campaign I started some day...
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Aug 30 2007, 13:16

Me too... If only I had some more ideas :sad:
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Postby pepak » Aug 30 2007, 14:37

Banedon wrote:
pepak wrote:Yeah, Sumon Imp seems a bit too strong compared to all other Summon * spells.


Nah, the game's single best summon spell is probably Summon Leprechaun, followed closely by Summon Water Elemental :)

In terms of usefulness, yes (though I would have reversed them). In terms of "hitpoints per spellpoint", no.

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Postby asandir » Sep 3 2007, 5:13

pardon my noobishness, but I prefer 91 odd imps over the 20 odd leprechauns I can summon, is the spell that worth it? My imps fly to enemy in one turn usually - great against ranged attackers, and then steals enemy attacks while my ranged (in nature campaign not death) destroy - the difference for death is that my vamps come in while the enemy attacks my imps - most fights are zero loss and 3 vampire gain (thru necromancy skill) fights .... the best ones!

I understand that water elementals are a cool summons, but the fact that I'm a Demonologist just makes it too difficult to refuse the imps, or even now that I've progressed, the Ice Demons, gimme a few more levels and I think the very best summons (as a Demonologist) will be avail
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Postby Banedon » Sep 3 2007, 9:07

I find Summon Leprechaun the game's best summons because even a single Leprechaun can cast Fortune, which tremendously reduces the damage taken by the targetted stack. You don't use them to deal damage - you use them to absorb retaliations, cast Fortune and to block the Ranged creature's line of sight, incredibly useful on such a low-level spell. There's no other such low-level summon that can accomplish so much. Summon Sprites is fairly bad unless the summoned Sprites can swing the numbers so much that you win the fight (they can't absorb retaliations unfortunately) or you really need to block some ranged creatures from firing at all (eg. Catapults). Summon Wolves would give you units that can steal retaliations and block line of sight, but no powerful defensive spell in Fortune - and the fact that they likely deal more damage is irrelevant since chances are they'll all be dead in a hit.

I think Summon Leprechaun is superior to Summon Water Elemental because you can cast it with a level 1 Nature Magic caster. A single level of Nature Magic on your Tactician for example will allow him to contribute to the battle, while to cast Summon Water Elemental would require a lot more levels. Still, Summon Water Elemental is also incredibly powerful. Flooding the battlefield with Quicksand and killing all those walkers with Ranged fire plain allows Nature to overturn some amazing odds.

As for combat-worthy summons, I think the best summon is Summon Mantis. Those Mantises are pretty crazy units, very high stats and all that. If you direly need Rebirth (the Rebirthed stack of Phoenixes can still block line of sight) then Summon Phoenix would be a great cast as well. I've never really used Summon Devil and can't remember if they can cast Summon Ice Demon; if they can it'd be a fine spell too.
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Postby asandir » Sep 3 2007, 10:09

I've never checked to see if the summoned devils can still cast summon ice demon, but I'd imagine so, will check when I get a chance ....

to be honest (noobness showing) I haven't really used fortune, but will check it out
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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Sep 3 2007, 13:59

asandir wrote:I've never checked to see if the summoned devils can still cast summon ice demon, but I'd imagine so, will check when I get a chance ....

to be honest (noobness showing) I haven't really used fortune, but will check it out


If you are like me, then you probably think (at some level) that luck works like in the other heroes games (% chance to do extra / reduced damage). I didn't use fortune much, unless I had a hero with summonning skill (and so usually had a few leprechauns at the start of the battle). One I got it to sink in that fortune not only gives you maximum luck (as opposed to only a +1 or +2), and that damage taken is tremendously reduced by it, I use it a lot more. Of course, I use summon leprechaun more often than fortune directly (for the reasons others mentioned above), and mass fortune (later on) is really useful. A demonologist (who, therefore, has nature and death magic) can use mass fortune on turn 1, and if the opponent has a mass buff, use mass cancellation on the next turn.

Similarly, for a chaos-user, mass misfortune can be a great help as well. (and considering that chaos and nature are "allied magics," you might even get both :-)

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Postby asandir » Sep 6 2007, 9:34

wow that's new

so is there a formula for it?? and does misfortune do the reverse? increase damage ....
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Postby Banedon » Sep 6 2007, 11:26

Yes - if I remember right, a lucky stack receives 50% less damage and an unlucky stack receives (I believe, never really calculated much other than noting that Mass Misfortune is a powerful spell) 100% more damage. Your luck levels affect the probability of being lucky or unlucky.
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Postby asandir » Sep 7 2007, 4:26

is there a way to work out when it happens? a sign of some kind?
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Postby Banedon » Sep 7 2007, 4:42

If you damage a lucky stack, beside the damage points it receives there'll be a clover; if you damage an unlucky stack, beside the damage points there'll be a horseshoe. You can tell easiest by casting Fortune (or Misfortune), slowing down the combat animation and then attacking the Misfortuned stack / take damage with the Fortuned stack.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.


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