The Most balanced Heroes game

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Which is the most balanced Heroes game?

Heroes I
4
9%
Heroes II w/expansion
8
17%
Heroes III w/expansions
20
43%
Heroes III w/WoG
5
11%
Heroes IV w/expansions
2
4%
Heroes IV w/Equilibrus
7
15%
 
Total votes: 46

ByteBandit
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The Most balanced Heroes game

Postby ByteBandit » Dec 23 2006, 19:35

Of all the Heroes games, which game is the most balanced for human vs AI?

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Pol
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Postby Pol » Dec 23 2006, 20:01

I'm going with pure H3 in this case as with WoG AI is not really understand new capabilites and therefore cannot use them to full power.
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Postby Corelanis » Dec 23 2006, 22:08

HOMM3 pure for that same reasons as above.

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Dec 26 2006, 12:07

Never played Equilibris.

But I think H2 would make do. Even if it's because the game is far simpler than the more recent series that AI can understand it better.

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Postby arturchix » Dec 26 2006, 12:33

Hmm, with balancing in Heroes atleast I usually understand comparing all factions, not AI. Heroes III probably has the best AI while Conflux town is falling out of the balance, Stronghold and Fortress more often lose to all towns who can build at least level 4 magic guild. Heroes IV has barely balanced anything while Heroes V has quite nicely balanced factions, each with own strengths and weaknesses while the AI is weaker than before, at least in Hammers of Fate - almost non-existant.

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Postby asandir » Dec 27 2006, 3:31

I picked H3 with expansions, because H2 is shocking for balance, even though the game works remarkably well regardless, H4 has it's issues (not least of these is the AI itself :D )

conflux throws the balance out a little, but a game like this is pretty tough to fully balance, even just against the AI
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Postby HodgePodge » Dec 27 2006, 3:50

Voted Heroes II

If I remember correctly, Heroes II was very challenging but the AI was not too dumb or become too powerful by cheating.
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 27 2006, 6:52

Clearly H 1.
It's the simplest game and AI heroes are brutally effective. Reasons:
a) smaller maps (no XL);
b) no secondary skills for heroes.
c) less map objects to interact with.
d) No wait command on the battlefield.
e) very small battlefield
f) only one spell can be effective on any unit -> a new spell cast on a unit dispels an old one -> in most situations casting a spell on the unit that is active (friendly) or will be active next (opposing) is the best move.
g) basic cheats are rather effective

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Postby Metathron » Dec 27 2006, 12:46

I went with the first Heroes game, mostly due to its simplicity, and for some of the same reasons as JJ. But come on, JJ, fess up, you only went with HoMM I 'cause one of the maps bears your name (or is it the other way round?) and because HoMM V was unavailable. :D

But seriously, though, why isn't HoMM V available, and if it were, would that have an impact on how people voted?
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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 27 2006, 13:03

For me it wouldn't change anything.

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Postby Pol » Dec 27 2006, 13:07

For me it wouldn't change anything.

And did you liked Master of Magic from Microprose? I do. It had one of best systems ever.
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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 27 2006, 13:58

Yes.
The original Master of Orion and Master of Magic games were for me what strategy gaming is all about. Add the initial and original Panzer General, HoMM 2 and maybe Civilization II and you have my top 5 in gaming.

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Postby pepak » Dec 27 2006, 13:58

I can't decide myself.

But I do have a question: Do you think that "balance" is such a good thing? Thinking about balance, I can't but think about Magic the Gathering card game, which went so far into the "let's balance everything" trap that it lost any appeal to me - it seemed to me at the time that for every conceivable successful strategy there just had to be a simple counter-strategy in the next expansion, that the monsters must have this attack and that health for this amount of mana etc. In the end, it seemed to me the creators wanted the game to be so balanced as to make it impossible to achieve anything; and heaven forbid any interesting (read: strong) cards.

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Postby Angelspit » Dec 27 2006, 14:16

I vote Heroes I as well. Simpler games are easier to balance. But I don't find a lack of balance to be such a problem in some situations.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Dec 27 2006, 14:39

Umm, the initial poster asks for balance between human players and AI players, not between races or towns or heroes.

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Postby ByteBandit » Dec 28 2006, 3:07

When I first put up this poll, I wanted to include all games of Heroes. I had 3 different versions of this poll up by accident, and this was the one that remained. Sorry about that. If you want to cast a vote for H5, I guess you'll have to do it verbally here. Then keep score that way. Sorry, again, and thank you.

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Postby Humakt » Dec 28 2006, 3:29

pepak wrote:I can't decide myself.

But I do have a question: Do you think that "balance" is such a good thing? Thinking about balance, I can't but think about Magic the Gathering card game, which went so far into the "let's balance everything" trap that it lost any appeal to me - it seemed to me at the time that for every conceivable successful strategy there just had to be a simple counter-strategy in the next expansion, that the monsters must have this attack and that health for this amount of mana etc. In the end, it seemed to me the creators wanted the game to be so balanced as to make it impossible to achieve anything; and heaven forbid any interesting (read: strong) cards.


When EXACTLY you were playing it and for how long? Are you familiar with terms, decks and cards: Combo Winter, Affinity, Tolarian Academy, Oath of Druids, Survival of the Fittest, Madness, Angry Hermit, Replenish or Skullclamp?

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pepak
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Postby pepak » Dec 28 2006, 5:03

Humakt wrote:When EXACTLY you were playing it and for how long? Are you familiar with terms, decks and cards: Combo Winter, Affinity, Tolarian Academy, Oath of Druids, Survival of the Fittest, Madness, Angry Hermit, Replenish or Skullclamp?

Started 1994, lost interest in 1996 or so - the beginning of the end was the Chronicles expansion, but what really broke the back of the game for me was Homelands. I never bothered about the younger sets. So no, I know nothing about the cards you mentioned.

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Postby winterfate » Dec 31 2006, 9:13

I got a Trading Card Game Thread over at the Campfire you know! (I miss the good old TCG conversations) :D.

Well...as for the poll, I say that H3's AI is the strongest.
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Postby Yurian Stonebow » Jan 19 2007, 15:15

Heroes IV of course. One can easily recognize a true masterpiece.





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