At level 8 there is no mass cancel. You were given cancel and dispel, of course. And it was your army... sorcerers (as you told me), death knight (as you told me), black dragons (as you told me). I even tried placing extra heroes into your army, to no avail.
And I placed 9 knights only. The point was to prove knights (champions) are good on this map. 7 would have been just as enough, btw
Tactics = IMBA
If that is what you did, I do not think I could have lost the battle. Tell me what you did.
And it was not my army. The Sorcerers were there, the Death Knight were there, the Black Dragons were there - but what kind of army did you field in return, pray tell? Can you honestly tell me the battle was fair?
The return battle, between our GM armies, was as unfair as the first.
And it was not my army. The Sorcerers were there, the Death Knight were there, the Black Dragons were there - but what kind of army did you field in return, pray tell? Can you honestly tell me the battle was fair?
The return battle, between our GM armies, was as unfair as the first.
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SmokingBarrel
- Peasant
- Posts: 66
- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
You did have cancel and dispel and I had 9 champions. And the fight is a sure loss for you. AS far as I remember, I did not evenhave dispel myself. First of all, blackies die very fast, second, you can't really kill anyone (I mean heroes) after a few buffs. Yes you can kill champions; at least a few of them. Maybe even get over their guardian angel. But sooner or later, you get overwhelmed.
Unfortunately, I do not have the save for that fight. But build up a level 8-10 army like mine (I mean you get the same amount of extras I did) and I build mine too. Then I tell you why you lose and how. Fair deal?
Unfortunately, I do not have the save for that fight. But build up a level 8-10 army like mine (I mean you get the same amount of extras I did) and I build mine too. Then I tell you why you lose and how. Fair deal?
This proves you did not compute the fight as I would have. Whatever happened to Cancellation on the Guardian Angel? Unless this is something Equilibris changed (that Cancellation does not work on Guardian Angel - but if this is what happened, Guardian Angel should stay at level 5), I would surely do it.Maybe even get over their guardian angel.
Allow me to show you what I would have done. I would have waited with all my heroes, allowed you to cast your blessings, cast Cancellation on the Champions and then multiple Implosions on them. That's the gameplan, and as long as you bring the Champions within line-of-sight, that's what I'd do. At about 300 damage per Implosion (probably more), that'd be 6 Champions down in one attack, leaving 3. 3 Champions cannot threaten my 2 Black Dragons, and none would be alive come next round. Then it'd be my entire force against your heroes, which ought to result in a wipeout.
Given what I know about your skills at Heroes 4, the only reasonable conclusions I can draw are:
1. You forgot / did not realize the crux of the strategy is attacking the Champions, or (rather more likely),
2. Equilibris changed something such that this strategy no longer works.
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SmokingBarrel
- Peasant
- Posts: 66
- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
First of all, you don't have implosion, that's a level 5 spell.
Second, the champions are not in your LoS and they'll only be there when I want them to. That won't be often.
Your best strategy is probably to play defensive with your black dragons and try to do something with your heroes... but time is not on your side.
The main problem is that it won't be easy to time those cancellations right. You realize you won't have it on all your heroes, don't you? (remember, it's a level 2 spell, you gotta work some for it
) -- and even if you do.. that's an action
my heroes and champions are much harder to kill than you would think
sooo: what's your army?
Second, the champions are not in your LoS and they'll only be there when I want them to. That won't be often.
Your best strategy is probably to play defensive with your black dragons and try to do something with your heroes... but time is not on your side.
The main problem is that it won't be easy to time those cancellations right. You realize you won't have it on all your heroes, don't you? (remember, it's a level 2 spell, you gotta work some for it
) -- and even if you do.. that's an actionmy heroes and champions are much harder to kill than you would think
sooo: what's your army?
Implosion is a level 4 spell, not unless they changed it in equilibris. No problem on getting cancellation, just get advanced death magic, that would cost just a level if Banedon buys a necromancer. Sorcerors only need cast a few fireballs to wipe out the heroes blocking line of sight, since he has three sorcerers, the final one is going to dish out punishment to your champions
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SmokingBarrel
- Peasant
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- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
I doubt the equilibris would've changed implosion into a lvl 5 spell, since implosion is way weaker than disintergrate.
Well, 1 hero with it is good enough(I think) because if you don't cast the buffs, the black dragons will just go and kill the champions(If they can reach them). If you cast the buffs, all we have to do is wait and then cancel them.
Well, 1 hero with it is good enough(I think) because if you don't cast the buffs, the black dragons will just go and kill the champions(If they can reach them). If you cast the buffs, all we have to do is wait and then cancel them.
Only one hero, the Tactician, ought to know the spell. Since you have 6 heroes I'd have 6 too, of which 3 cast Master Chaos Magic, one's a Death Knight (Tactician) preferably with Advanced Death and Cancellation, and the other two can be low-level Necromancers casting Cancellation. That's three casters.
Implosion was not changed in Equilibris, but I think csarmi got it wrong (apparently he's confused the spells Implosion and Disintegrate). And your heroes may be hard to kill - but your Champions aren't. They die. End of battle.
What's my army? Simple:
3 Master Chaos Sorcerers
1 Master Tactician
2 Advanced Necromancers
2 Black Dragons
Skill configurations up to you, but be reasonable. We can assume all spells known as well as an infinite supply of Potions of Immortality, as always.
So. Start of battle. I place my two of my Sorcerers as well as the Tactician on the back line. The remaining 4 units are in the first line, but out of range of your Champions (who need necessarily be in the second line). Your Champions are not in my Line-Of-Sight. I wait with all my units. Your move.
Implosion was not changed in Equilibris, but I think csarmi got it wrong (apparently he's confused the spells Implosion and Disintegrate). And your heroes may be hard to kill - but your Champions aren't. They die. End of battle.
What's my army? Simple:
3 Master Chaos Sorcerers
1 Master Tactician
2 Advanced Necromancers
2 Black Dragons
Skill configurations up to you, but be reasonable. We can assume all spells known as well as an infinite supply of Potions of Immortality, as always.
So. Start of battle. I place my two of my Sorcerers as well as the Tactician on the back line. The remaining 4 units are in the first line, but out of range of your Champions (who need necessarily be in the second line). Your Champions are not in my Line-Of-Sight. I wait with all my units. Your move.
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Gaidal Cain
- Round Table Hero
- Posts: 6972
- Joined: 26 Nov 2005
- Location: Solna
No reason to apologize 
And everyone should be able to doublepost now, which is fine as long as it's handled with reason (posting 10 times in a row to increase postcount is not "within reason", and neither is unnecessary "bumping").
And everyone should be able to doublepost now, which is fine as long as it's handled with reason (posting 10 times in a row to increase postcount is not "within reason", and neither is unnecessary "bumping").
You don't want to make enemies in Nuclear Engineering. -- T. Pratchett
Dear csarmi, if you have never lost an argument to me before, please do not procrastinate or avoid this topic any longer.First, you have never beaten me in any argument. And here, never means never. Not just almost.
It is not in my nature to be violent or to use strong words. My last post was a mistake. This time, I hope to avoid using such force - I hope you will too csarmi, but if you don't...I have little idea how I will react.
I am not avoiding this thread, I simply have no time to do tests, create maps, etc... just as I told you in private.
How is that possible while keep posting here? Simple, I post here from work (usually). There I have no games installed. When home, I am tired and if I do play something, that's bridge or maybe civ4; surely not heroes.
How is that possible while keep posting here? Simple, I post here from work (usually). There I have no games installed. When home, I am tired and if I do play something, that's bridge or maybe civ4; surely not heroes.
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ThunderTitan
- Perpetual Poster
- Posts: 23270
- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
- Location: Now/here
- Contact:
So.... would 9 times be within reason?Gaidal Cain wrote: And everyone should be able to doublepost now, which is fine as long as it's handled with reason (posting 10 times in a row to increase postcount is not "within reason", and neither is unnecessary "bumping").
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti
Alt-0128: €
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti
Alt-0128: €
So let's do this...hypothetically. Tell me how you intend to take out my 2 Black Dragons with your 9 Champions, and what you would do against my proposed strategy of bombarding your Champions with DD spells.csarmi wrote:I am not avoiding this thread, I simply have no time to do tests, create maps, etc... just as I told you in private.
How is that possible while keep posting here? Simple, I post here from work (usually). There I have no games installed. When home, I am tired and if I do play something, that's bridge or maybe civ4; surely not heroes.
I hide my champions from LoS at the start. I buff them up, and will come out with them for two consecutive moves with good morale to make short work of your black dragons (if you move your blackies ahead).
Since I am going to have too many good morales, I will control the battlefield.
I will also anti-magic my champions at the appropriate time.
Your blackies will die fast. Then come your heroes.
I would need the game at hand to come up with a precise army setup and such for you, I cannot improvize so good now, I forgot too much.
Since I am going to have too many good morales, I will control the battlefield.
I will also anti-magic my champions at the appropriate time.
Your blackies will die fast. Then come your heroes.
I would need the game at hand to come up with a precise army setup and such for you, I cannot improvize so good now, I forgot too much.
AntiMagic knocks out your own buffs, and it was proven that 2 Black Dragons take out 9 Champions when both sides have no buffs. I'd also place my Black Dragons out of reach of two consecutive attacks from the Champions. What have I to fear anyway? I am the one using DD damage, and you're the one who will have to attack me.
Myself, I won't move my Black Dragons ahead but pound your heroes / baits with DD damage until you do decide to move your Champions ahead. You may have good morale, but with my own Necromancers I would continuously cancel your buffs (like Mass Fervor). You won't be able to exploit Mass Fervor for two turns without me cancelling it from the Champions.
We don't need too precise a setup, because I think you're going to lose this battle decisively. The instant your Champions come within LoS, I cast Cancellation and apply DD. You may cast AntiMagic; so be it, I pound your heroes with DD (they will die eventually, and with 3 Master casters it's significant damage). I can even hit your Champions when they're out of LoS - just cast Fireball and similar spells (Armageddon would be nice...hmm...).
Your heroes and Champions are far easier to kill than you'd think. I will applaud you if you can prove me wrong.
Myself, I won't move my Black Dragons ahead but pound your heroes / baits with DD damage until you do decide to move your Champions ahead. You may have good morale, but with my own Necromancers I would continuously cancel your buffs (like Mass Fervor). You won't be able to exploit Mass Fervor for two turns without me cancelling it from the Champions.
We don't need too precise a setup, because I think you're going to lose this battle decisively. The instant your Champions come within LoS, I cast Cancellation and apply DD. You may cast AntiMagic; so be it, I pound your heroes with DD (they will die eventually, and with 3 Master casters it's significant damage). I can even hit your Champions when they're out of LoS - just cast Fireball and similar spells (Armageddon would be nice...hmm...).
Your heroes and Champions are far easier to kill than you'd think. I will applaud you if you can prove me wrong.
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