Heroes IV: Rate it!

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Rate HoMM IV

10 - love it!
19
18%
9
30
28%
8
13
12%
7
13
12%
7
13
12%
6
4
4%
5
2
2%
4
1
1%
3
7
6%
2
1
1%
1 - loathe it!
5
5%
 
Total votes: 108

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ThunderTitan
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 27 2006, 19:57

Ya5MieL wrote:tennis is more realistic, but it aint as fun as pong with 2 ppl :)


No reason to flame tennis either.

And Fun is different for everyone.
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Postby Ya5MieL » Jul 27 2006, 21:27

Indeed...

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 28 2006, 12:04

8/10 mostly because of the AI

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Postby Torur » Jul 31 2006, 9:30

Uhm... I noticed alot of dissagrement on my tactic part. That's fair, since we are aloud to have different oppinions.

FoW: DL I have heard of reconnaissance, but I think it is a factor that takes something away from the game. I'll admit it takes a different strategy with FoW than without. Still my oppinion is that the game is better without the FoW. I am a lover of the old Heroes style, I have always disliked H4, mostly because of its new assests, here amongs is FoW, Heroes on the BF, Heroeless troops and more. The FoW in my oppinion is just a thing that is there to bugger you and makes you spend extra time making sure noone enters your territory and moving scouts.

Tactics on the BF: Are you guys serious? The lack of grids takes out half of the tactics. The lack of a proper camera angle takes its part too. You have more options in H4, with spells and melee and ranged, but you do not need the tactical skills as much as in H3.

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Postby wimfrits » Jul 31 2006, 10:06

Torur wrote:on the BF: Are you guys serious? The lack of grids takes out half of the tactics. The lack of a proper camera angle takes its part too. You have more options in H4, with spells and melee and ranged, but you do not need the tactical skills as much as in H3.


Navigating the battlefield takes some time to get used to, but once you get the hang of it, the same tactical placement that is used in H3 can also be applied to H4. With additional factors like line of sight and the fact that the H4 battlefield is a lot bigger. Line of sight alone already greatly deepens combat tactics.

Multiply the increase of base combat tactics by the vast increase in options and it seems only logical that combat in H4 is a lot deeper.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 31 2006, 14:26

Torur wrote:FoW: DL I have heard of reconnaissance, but I think it is a factor that takes something away from the game. I'll admit it takes a different strategy with FoW than without. Still my oppinion is that the game is better without the FoW. I am a lover of the old Heroes style, I have always disliked H4, mostly because of its new assests, here amongs is FoW, Heroes on the BF, Heroeless troops and more. The FoW in my oppinion is just a thing that is there to bugger you and makes you spend extra time making sure noone enters your territory and moving scouts.


These can easilly be addresed to and still stay very important.For FoW,just increase the sight for flagable object,and there you have border marking.So you still have to be careful when entering enemy teritory,yet your borders are,relatively,safe.Heroes on BF needs a lot of balance.Assigning them to creature stacks still seems like a best solution for me.As for heroeless armies,I hate when the computer has loads of those running around,but it adds one of the best things to the game:Separate creature and hero movement.I hate hero chaning!Besides,why do you dislike this feature?You had loads of level 1 heroes in HIII running around,doing simple tasks.So whats the difference?

Torur wrote:Tactics on the BF: Are you guys serious? The lack of grids takes out half of the tactics. The lack of a proper camera angle takes its part too. You have more options in H4, with spells and melee and ranged, but you do not need the tactical skills as much as in H3.


Like wimfrits,its just hard to adjust to,but once you do,the grid is no longer needed,and the camera is not such a big problem anymore.If you think that tactics is just calculating how much your enemy can move,and how much you need to move in order to lure him,but prevent him from hitting you,then you are soooooo wrong.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 31 2006, 16:22

Lack of grid just takes out ease of use for the creature movement part. It in no way diminishes tactics.
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Postby asandir » Aug 1 2006, 3:13

7 .... i really enjoyed it, but it had some well documented issues

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Postby DemonHunter » Aug 4 2006, 17:41

9, it had some issues, but because of the many differences, I see it as a special one in the heroes series :)

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Postby eekstah » Aug 4 2006, 18:02

Torur wrote:on the BF: Are you guys serious? The lack of grids takes out half of the tactics.

As long as you have movement shadow, you can se how far your and your enemy's unit can move. Then what do you really need the grid for?

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Postby RedViking » Aug 4 2006, 19:27

I think in the End it was a good game, it had brought a lot of new stuff and tactic options which i enjoyed.
Yeah, it had some bug problem at the begining that's right, but now i can enjoy the new H5 (with his H3 like features ;)) and the H4 with all the tactics (like line of sight and battling heroes) and the Equilibris Mod :D
I gave it a 9.
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Postby vhilhu » Aug 18 2006, 13:33

i gave it a 2.
but i didnt download any patches or expansions or equilibrium too, maybe because of that.

graphics went better. music was overall worse, but battle music was much better than homm3, but in homm3 i replaced it anyway.

tactics disappeared, so did grid. line of sight was nice but hard to find out where it goes exactly(no grid), so its more like a minus.

but the skill system! with homm3 skill system, i would have rated it about 6 or 7. i liked skill choices, but here in homm4 you just didnt get any, only when you found some school.

only 1 area of spells to each hero(2 different areas was meaningless, because your 1. choice would be much more upgraded). nature and order magic are outbalancing. death and chaos have just damage and average enchant spells(useful, but dont try to compare them to summon 5 mantises every turn or berserk or town gate or any that stuff).

centaurs got punk-style. green/red dragons flew far far away before homm4 started. MEGAdragons name seems quite artificial, like McMegaBurger.

grail map went when-you-discover-ALL-pieces-you-get-the-map-but-before-that-you-dont-see-anything.

campaigns were not tied to each other, most were boring too(compared to homm3),death camp the was the only great.

AND no fortress faction, that was a big minus for me too.
------
now that i think of it, i feel guilty. should have given 4.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 18 2006, 15:05

vhilhu wrote:i gave it a 2.
but i didnt download any patches or expansions or equilibrium too, maybe because of that.


If you had no expansions,how do you know about the mega drgon?And without patches it crashes a lot.That diminishes the game.

vhilhu wrote:graphics went better. music was overall worse, but battle music was much better than homm3, but in homm3 i replaced it anyway.


Graphics is discutable.Though the adventure map was better,not all creatures were.

vhilhu wrote:tactics disappeared, so did grid. line of sight was nice but hard to find out where it goes exactly(no grid), so its more like a minus.


I repat grid does not enqual tactics.The BF camera is weird,but once you adjust,its easy to see the LoS.

vhilhu wrote:but the skill system! with homm3 skill system, i would have rated it about 6 or 7. i liked skill choices, but here in homm4 you just didnt get any, only when you found some school.


There were choices in HIV.Even more then in HIII because of the advanced classes.And its much better to limt spel like hat,then to allow any schmuck to get any spell he wants.

vhilhu wrote:only 1 area of spells to each hero(2 different areas was meaningless, because your 1. choice would be much more upgraded). nature and order magic are outbalancing. death and chaos have just damage and average enchant spells(useful, but dont try to compare them to summon 5 mantises every turn or berserk or town gate or any that stuff).


Not true.I always mix spells.Chaos is not useless(bloodlust and cat reflex are exelent),and neither is death(poison is reeeet for siging AI :D )

vhilhu wrote:grail map went when-you-discover-ALL-pieces-you-get-the-map-but-before-that-you-dont-see-anything.


Ad this is actually a good thing.

vhilhu wrote:campaigns were not tied to each other, most were boring too(compared to homm3),death camp the was the only great.


oder was excelent too.Chaos was also very good.

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Postby vhilhu » Aug 18 2006, 16:37

DaemianLucifer wrote:If you had no expansions,how do you know about the mega drgon?

I looked in wikipedia about HOMM4 expansions. they have a nice collection of pages about HOMM and MM. btw, there was some broken link to HOMM online? what is that? anybody?

DaemianLucifer wrote:There were choices in HIV.Even more then in HIII because of the advanced classes.

choices? to get grandmaster in magic skill you had to have 2 other as grandmaster if i still remember? you could only choose which you take first. because you want grandmaster main skill anyway.

DaemianLucifer wrote:
vhilhu wrote:only 1 area of spells to each hero(2 different areas was meaningless, because your 1. choice would be much more upgraded). nature and order magic are outbalancing. death and chaos have just damage and average enchant spells(useful, but dont try to compare them to summon 5 mantises every turn or berserk or town gate or any that stuff).


Not true.I always mix spells.Chaos is not useless(bloodlust and cat reflex are exelent),and neither is death(poison is reeeet for siging AI :D )
hand of death is kinda nice against demons and angels, gotta admit that. but chaos still doesnt get anywhere near. cat reflexes is weaker than dragon strength(lvl 5 nature). bloodlust-i hate bloodlust. with bless and curse its right clear how much bonus you get, not with bloodlust.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 18 2006, 17:17

vhilhu wrote:choices? to get grandmaster in magic skill you had to have 2 other as grandmaster if i still remember? you could only choose which you take first. because you want grandmaster main skill anyway.


Magic skills had a predefined path,true,but not might skills.

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Postby vhilhu » Aug 18 2006, 17:21

magic is better than might anyway. scouting might be fun, but you will have whole army with you soon enough, scouting doesnt hide it all. or does it? correct me if im wrong.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 18 2006, 17:25

Scouting doesnt hide you,stealth does(just the hero).But scouting is much better to have because of the pathfinding,which affects the whole army.So usually youll have a scouting hero in your army.

And magic is not always better then might.First,combat is an essential skill if you want your hero to live.Tactics makes your units superstrong.Scouting reveales more of the map,and lets your army travel further.Nobility boosts resources and enables bigger armies.

Most skills are very balanced(even more so with equi)and very useful.So a mix of heroes is always better than a single superhero,mage or fighter.

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Postby vhilhu » Aug 18 2006, 17:37

ok im not going to argue about homm4 balance, i got tired of it before i could become a professor.

but nobility makes sense only on secondary hero.

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Postby Akul » Aug 18 2006, 18:46

Great! I was alredy started to feel bored. Time to argue again :-D

tactics disappeared, so did grid. line of sight was nice but hard to find out where it goes exactly(no grid), so its more like a minus.


You should have read the post that were made before.

but the skill system! with homm3 skill system, i would have rated it about 6 or 7. i liked skill choices, but here in homm4 you just didnt get any, only when you found some school.


HOMM3 is (IMO) the worst skill system ever. The only usable skill was Wisdom and others give very little bonuses.
And don't let us forget the advanced classes which is a huge +

only 1 area of spells to each hero(2 different areas was meaningless, because your 1. choice would be much more upgraded). nature and order magic are outbalancing. death and chaos have just damage and average enchant spells(useful, but dont try to compare them to summon 5 mantises every turn or berserk or town gate or any that stuff).


IMO, H4 spell system is better then the H3 one and way much, much better then the H5 one. In fact, it is one of the best magic systems ever.
5 magic scholls make you need to choose which two (or more) would you like to mix.

grail map went when-you-discover-ALL-pieces-you-get-the-map-but-before-that-you-dont-see-anything.


And the bad thing is...?

campaigns were not tied to each other, most were boring too(compared to homm3),death camp the was the only great.


The campaigns are tied but you need to read what is writen in texts. H4 stories (not expansions, they are s***t) feel like short novels which is again a big PLUS. Tied campaigns don't make a good story.

AND no fortress faction, that was a big minus for me too.


I bet you hate H5 too then. Join in Ethric flaming club :devil:

choices? to get grandmaster in magic skill you had to have 2 other as grandmaster if i still remember? you could only choose which you take first. because you want grandmaster main skill anyway.


You need to choose advanced class for bonuses and you would wish to get those skills to grandmaster too. Later in the game the choice becomes critical.

hand of death is kinda nice against demons and angels, gotta admit that. but chaos still doesnt get anywhere near. cat reflexes is weaker than dragon strength(lvl 5 nature). bloodlust-i hate bloodlust. with bless and curse its right clear how much bonus you get, not with bloodlust.


Every magic school requires gameplay of different type. But most of theme know to use only one of theme.

magic is better than might anyway. scouting might be fun, but you will have whole army with you soon enough, scouting doesnt hide it all. or does it? correct me if im wrong.


Combat - good for keeping your hero alive and a high ranking combat hero is a killing machine.
Scouting - great skill for hit-and-run tactics
Nobility - makes you rich B-)
Tactic - great choice for small armies.

but nobility makes sense only on secondary hero.


You need to use more then 2 heores in harder games.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 18 2006, 18:54

Sauron wrote:Tied campaigns don't make a good story.


Not true.Look at _crafts.They all have tied campaigns,and are excelent.


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