Heroes IV: Rate it!

The old Heroes games developed by New World Computing. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Rate HoMM IV

10 - love it!
19
18%
9
30
28%
8
13
12%
7
13
12%
7
13
12%
6
4
4%
5
2
2%
4
1
1%
3
7
6%
2
1
1%
1 - loathe it!
5
5%
 
Total votes: 108

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Metathron
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Postby Metathron » Jul 9 2006, 23:30

The two 'loathe it' votes. Come out of the closet you guys, we won't hurt you.

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Postby djtc » Jul 10 2006, 3:06

9/10. Nearly a 10/10, but I would only give a 10 to my favorite game, and that is still HommIII.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Jul 11 2006, 19:44

Heroes IV is a brilliant game. I gave it a 10.

The sheer flow of the combat is what I like about the game most and the introduction of heroes as combat units is good aswell.

I don't think heroes are unbanced at all, there are plenty of units available to every faction that can drop heroes like flies and the AI is cunning in bringing down heroes, expecially spell casters with it's units. If you (or the AI) are dumb your heroes die, but if you are smart the heroes don't die.

You usually don't have access to god-like heroes except in campaigns and they are usually balanced so that you can't really win without those heroes. Sometimes the campaign missions are too balanced as regards to creatures and you don't need to rely on the heroes to win and the addition of those heroes is a total massacre for the enemy.

The AI usually has high level heroes of it's own in these cases, but it really can't use them to their full potential and your heroes are beefed up with gems of various kinds over the many campaign missions so they aren't really balanced (gems of defense and offense are the main unbalancer as regards heroes). The AI seems to be unable to gather it's forces around these key heroes effectively, but I wonder whether that is due to any inherant flaw or in my own capacity for decisive use of suprise catching the AI 'with it's pants down'.
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Postby HodgePodge » Jul 12 2006, 0:05

I love Heroes IV, so I also gave the game a 10/10. I really appreciate Heroes IV with all the expansions and the Equilibris mod … especially after playing Heroes V.
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Postby Yurian Stonebow » Jul 17 2006, 11:59

As much as I tried to get used to the rather annoying shortcomings of Heroes IV, I just can not rate the game higher than 6. In heroes IV we have an obvious failure in both terms of quality and replayability. Let's have a cynical look at some features of the game:

AI: Much of the adventure map AI needs to be completely re-worked.
What we have at the moment (even with patch 3,0 installed) is a
product of sloppy coding mixed hastily tried bad ideas. When one
would expect at least some good moves on the AI's part every now
and then, all you get is seeing the computer player(s) going after
wild goose chase or just staying still doing nothing.

Also the other important part of the game, the battle AI aka the
tactical AI could use some new tricks up his sleeve especially when
confronting the player in a castle siege. In his current condition, the AI
can be easily fooled to perform very stupid maneuvers. All this is, of
course, something that makes the player swear and curse. Why would
you want to spend hours playing a game that offers no decent
challenge? :(

Spells: the new spell system is sadly left unbalanced with particular spells
ruining the feeble faction balance even more. What we have is a
tendence to overpower Order spells and underestimate the need
for non-wizard factions to wield a vast variety of good spells. My
humble opinion is that Heroes III styled element-aligned magic with
the power of spells attached to player's power skill was superb
compared to Heroes IV's system. I mean, where's the balance?

Faction Balance: as noted before, some factions are overpowered and
more difficult to beat than others. Order has taken the
Conflux's place as the most unbalanced faction in H4.
The near-perfect balance of Heroes III is gone. Now the
two perhaps most balanced factions are Haven and
Might (barbarians). Nature has its good sides but the
faction relies heavily on Summoning which can also be a
weakness. (balance issues, magic it requires etc)

Heroes on battlefield: While I do know that this is HEROES of might and
magic, the idea of a single Hero beating 100 or
more Black Dragons is quite absurd. This isn't
GODS of might and magic, is it? One possible
solution would be to remove potions of Immortality
from the game. Of course it would require testing.

Equilibris: with Equilibris the fan made mod, I reward Heroes IV with the rating of 7,5/10. It adresses some well-known bugs and balance issues and hopefully can even enchance the AI in the feature. I hereby promise publically that if I find Equilibris 3,6 even more enjoyable (in my opinion) and more carefully balanced and making the AI less stupid, I will personally send the development team 50 €uros.

Units: what I sorely regret ever seeing in Homm IV is the mark of unbalance left in various units. You can see what happens when you have to release a game before it's been tested and the balance thoroughly worked out in accordance with the general standard of the Homm-series.



Like I said, these are just some examples that make Heroes IV likely to
face oblivion after 10 or less futile hours of playing (or banging your head against a wall). Note: I can only speak for myself and no-one else. Therefore you can all feel free to contradict my opinions.


Best regards,



Yurian
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Postby Ya5MieL » Jul 17 2006, 12:42

3 is as high as it can get, equilibris might raise that to 3,5 but i find the game overall boring.
h2/3 would get 8
h1 would get like 4
kb would get 5
h5 ..... still cant tell, but not above 7 ATM

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Postby Supa_Dogy_Dragon » Jul 24 2006, 11:33

Sauron wrote:I am loving it! H4 made me a fan of the series and I thats why I'll never forget it.
When I bought H3RoE and played it, I put it on a shelf because it was boring. It needed 3 months until I played it again and tought it wasn't that bad. Still, it was never as good as H4.


Hmmmm....... See I played heroes I when I was a child . It was good. I played Heroes II later , it was better , I played (and am playing WOG) Heroes III now and its realy good. I played Heroes IV and i thought That this is a good game , but see it has bad things , and those bad things making him bad for become true member of heroes family. I can't say , I enjoyed it , but heroes need more than that what it gaved for players. Perhaps it is that because there is no 3DO anymore and game was created by diffrent men and women who thought that it (HoMM4) should be good, but all gamers who i know don't held that game as part of family.

Yes its interesting that hero can atack and stuff , but that units can walk alone . Wot a piece of ... Lets say poo. Ofcourse the only thing why he is normal to other strategies is that he didn't went too far from original games. If you want a good game , than buy lets say V part and you can say - wot a good game dude!

But ofcourse this is what you think and i respect it , but i say what i think about HoMM IV.

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Postby Torur » Jul 24 2006, 13:36

I gave it a 3, because it lacks so many great features and kvalities which both H2 and H3 had. + it featured a new world and left the old M&M world, which was kinda sad...

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Postby Akul » Jul 24 2006, 17:14

Torur wrote:I gave it a 3, because it lacks so many great features and kvalities which both H2 and H3 had. + it featured a new world and left the old M&M world, which was kinda sad...


No, the universe is the same. The planet has just changed.

@Supa_Dogy_Dragon
What do you think that 3D0 and NWC didn't make H4? It was made by theme.

Yes its interesting that hero can atack and stuff , but that units can walk alone . Wot a piece of ... Lets say poo.


IMO, it is a great feature. You finally get scouts in the game which increases the strategy element.
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Torur
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Postby Torur » Jul 24 2006, 19:54

You know what I mean, the eniter setting changes. The old envirement just was not there...

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Postby Akul » Jul 25 2006, 8:52

Torur wrote:You know what I mean, the eniter setting changes. The old envirement just was not there...


And as I alredy told, when I started playing H3, I stoped playing for 3 months because there are no good features as in H4. And I like many H4 features like:

-caravans
-magic system (best in serial IMO)
-Advanced classes
-no faction is similiar to one another (besides in look)
-you can choose one of 6 sides in campaign
-you can play campaign in multiplayer
-you can carryover heroes from one camp to another
-more then 100 spells (and no spell is useless)
-spellcasting creatures (thnx God that H5 took it)
-great hero biographies from which every deserves a campaign
-great campaign stories in original (you feel as if you read a book)
-FoW + creatures = scouts (a big + to strategy)
-etc.

H3 good features:
-many factions (tough ll are similiar to one another)
-creature upgrades (H2, not H3)
-good stories
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Torur
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Postby Torur » Jul 25 2006, 9:24

H3 great features.
The chesslike battle field, making battles very tactical.
No FoG
Fantastic envirement
Creatures stand still
No super heroes
Superb Campaig history, tied with old Griffen hearth and other.
The creatures are superb looking and well balanced.
The general overview of the map is great.
... ect.

I belive you played H3 after H4? am i right?

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 25 2006, 10:33

Torur wrote:H3 great features.
The chesslike battle field, making battles very tactical.
No FoG
Fantastic envirement
Creatures stand still
No super heroes
Superb Campaig history, tied with old Griffen hearth and other.
The creatures are superb looking and well balanced.
The general overview of the map is great.


About the bold ones,how are those two great features,please tell me?Whats so nice and tactical about you knowing what your enemy does miles into his teritory just because you entered there 5 months ago with some level one hero and a pixie?And whats so great about being able to dance around neutrals,flipping them off,and saying "Cant catch me! :tongue: "??Thats illogical,unstrategical,and dumb.Sure,it was nice when HIII came out,but its not anymore.

About the other things,HIV BF was way better.If the camera was better(made 3D,like it is now),it would be the best BF ever.It has LoS,it has small tiles,it is big,it is marvelous.HIV has the best story ever(the original one,not the expansions).

The creatures in HIII are balanced?Lets see,why is the inferno so weak then?And creatures arent superb,because there are too much of them.If you want superb creatures,then play HII.No dumb upgrades like zombie -> plague zombie.

Lets not forget other great features of HIV like sim retal and choosing creatures(which beats upgrades big time).

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Postby Meandor » Jul 25 2006, 11:48

The creatures are superb looking and well balanced.


I don`t see how creatures were better balanced. In both games there are creatures which are above avarage and below avarage.
...

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Postby Ethric » Jul 25 2006, 11:53

DaemianLucifer wrote:If you want superb creatures,then play HII.No dumb upgrades like zombie -> plague zombie.


Very, very bad example... the mutant zombie is perhaps the dumbest upgrade ever in HoMM, putting the plague zombie in good tradition. Now I love H2 and it's upgrade-system, it's the best, but fair's fair ;)
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Torur
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Postby Torur » Jul 25 2006, 14:04

@Meandor

You'll always have creatures that are better than another. That's why you have to use more then one unit type, so to balance your army.

@DL

No FoG
Creatures stand still

You where comparing H3 and H4, so I did to. Besides those are two things im happy about. No FoG, you dont have to have a dozen heroes just to make sure no one enters your land. A benefit in my mind. Creatures stand still. There job is to protect the mine not run around like little children.

The balance. There is no castle in H3 that has a clear upper hand. And inferno have heavy mid-lvl creatures, Pit lord and Demon. The HP is a drawback, but all faction do have a draw back, so...

Sim retal is a nice feature, but it is not enough to drag the game above H3.

The H4 BF, is very stupid designed. Fighting diagonal makes the battle field wide, but short. And the graphics are very annoying and makes it hard to get a good overview when fighting.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 25 2006, 17:25

Torur wrote:You where comparing H3 and H4, so I did to. Besides those are two things im happy about. No FoG, you dont have to have a dozen heroes just to make sure no one enters your land. A benefit in my mind. Creatures stand still. There job is to protect the mine not run around like little children.


No FoW means you need to focuss less on defending your borders,and can prance all you want,which means less strategy.You dont have to be prepared for sudden skirmishes,youll see them coming miles away.And that is bad.

About creatures,its obvious you havent played HIV a lot.First,mobile guards doesnt mean that all creatures will wander.It depends on what radius the mapmaker gives them.But creatures guarding mines still have ZoC,so you cannot just walk freely around them.Theyll stand there,guarding the mine,and if you come to close,theyll attack you.After that,they return to their guarding spot.Which is good.In HIII you can just walz and take the resources in front of the guards noses,and leave the mines behind them.

Torur wrote:The H4 BF, is very stupid designed. Fighting diagonal makes the battle field wide, but short. And the graphics are very annoying and makes it hard to get a good overview when fighting.


Thats the camera,which I said is bad.If they have chosen a normal view,the BF couldve been perfectly rectangular,with no diagonals,and still large enough.And you would see it perfectly.

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Postby pepak » Jul 25 2006, 17:46

DaemianLucifer wrote:Thats the camera,which I said is bad.

I for one LOVE isometric view! Of course, I grew up on Knight Lore, Great Escape and similar games...

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Meandor
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Postby Meandor » Jul 25 2006, 19:16

You'll always have creatures that are better than another. That's why you have to use more then one unit type, so to balance your army.


What i meant was that in both games there are units which are stronger/weaker than most other units of the same level.

The balance. There is no castle in H3 that has a clear upper hand.


Yes, that`s why conflux and necropolis are usualy banned from tournaments.

Besides those are two things im happy about. No FoG, you dont have to have a dozen heroes just to make sure no one enters your land.


I aggre. You`ll already have dozens of heroes runing around and collecting units and resources so another dozen would be overkill. But in H4 you don`t have dozens of heroes collecting units from dwelings and you can make heroless armies, so fog of war is great there.

There job is to protect the mine not run around like little children.


They are guarding mines fine, and there "children" can be called bandits.
...

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Postby Milla aka. the Slayer » Jul 25 2006, 19:47

ThunderTitan wrote:
Milla aka. the Slayer wrote:I gave it a 10. I really enjoy playing H4 and hopefully I always will. There are of course a few things that could be improved but I still love the game


And that's why you should have voted 9. If it has flaws it shouldn't get a 10 no matter how much you love it.


Don't be so anal, please :disagree:
Sure it can get a 10 anyway..
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