Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

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Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby cjleeagain » Jan 27 2022, 13:11

This just came out? Anybody has any ideas?



The download link is here.

http://heroes3wog.net/heroes-4-ultimate ... rerelease/

The list of changes is here:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/heroes-iv-ul ... ltimate-v5

Note that they call it a prerelease version, so possibly some of us (including me) are going to be guinea pigs first.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Jan 27 2022, 16:18

It's just the same thing as Ultimate but instead of Lich he switched it to a "Succubus", which uses a hero's model and some different abilities.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby Pol » Jan 27 2022, 19:53

That Succubus animation is so funny. Yay! Reminds me the Pit Lords!

So, she can charm and summon troglodytes. Quite nice :D
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Jan 27 2022, 21:00

Pol wrote: Jan 27 2022, 19:53So, she can charm and summon troglodytes. Quite nice :D

I believe that was the Devils summoning the Troglodytes, lol :)

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby Pol » Jan 27 2022, 21:05

iLiVeInAbOx05 wrote: Jan 27 2022, 21:00
Pol wrote: Jan 27 2022, 19:53So, she can charm and summon troglodytes and cast weakness. Quite nice :D

I believe that was the Devils summoning the Troglodytes, lol :)
You are right, Infernal Troglodytes were summoned by Devils. They are both in the army.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby cjleeagain » Jan 28 2022, 9:32

I played it a little, and like what I see so far. The animations and graphics are quite well done and it looks stable.

I am not completely sure if all the changes are for the better.

For instance, I don't see why initiative needs to be renamed Drive.

Then there is the question of Gold Golems - now called Copper - but being able to resurrect themselves. Inanimate objects resurrecting themselves is plain stupid. I don't think these exist in any fantasy game scenario at all.

Evil Sorceresses have been made even more powerful by adding 15 points to their health and some changes to their spells.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby cjleeagain » Jan 31 2022, 15:47

I've tried playing one of the Masters campaigns starring Tarnum. Couldn't get past halfway the first mission.

Almost every map that I play with a wizard, I've really wanted to play a pure spellcaster. Not possible. No combat skills gets you killed everytime, and you can't afford to lose Tarnum.

It's mainly the presence of Evil Sorceresses (Toxic Sorceresses in this version) that upset the balance.

Is a campaign supposed to be designed with these creatures in mind? As Academy/ Order/ Wizard, it is ok if I have such creatures. But why does the Nature/ Conflux enemy have them too? How does that help the storyline?

Once you have a teleporter who can do Strike and Return, the balance is lost. Every battle features my Toxic Sorceresses and the enemy's hitting each other, because otherwise the enemy will be making a beeline for my heroes everytime.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby Pol » Jan 31 2022, 15:58

@cjleeagain
I'm pretty sure that Tarnum's Campaign are not meant to be played under Heroes IV Ultimate but only under Heroes IV and accidentally they might work under Equilibris. But that's to be discovered.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Jan 31 2022, 16:07

cjleeagain wrote: Jan 31 2022, 15:47 I've tried playing one of the Masters campaigns starring Tarnum. Couldn't get past halfway the first mission.

Almost every map that I play with a wizard, I've really wanted to play a pure spellcaster. Not possible. No combat skills gets you killed everytime, and you can't afford to lose Tarnum.

It's mainly the presence of Evil Sorceresses (Toxic Sorceresses in this version) that upset the balance.

Is a campaign supposed to be designed with these creatures in mind? As Academy/ Order/ Wizard, it is ok if I have such creatures. But why does the Nature/ Conflux enemy have them too? How does that help the storyline?

Once you have a teleporter who can do Strike and Return, the balance is lost. Every battle features my Toxic Sorceresses and the enemy's hitting each other, because otherwise the enemy will be making a beeline for my heroes everytime.

ByteBandit and I are the ones converting the Heroes Chronicles campaigns over to H4. Nimostar has "updated" those campaigns how he sees fit to work with Ultimate, but these campaigns are intended for WoW version right now, and will get their own mini-mod version after we complete them.

At the moment we are working on balancing Warlords of the Wasteland.

If you're interested in H4 Chronicles, head over to the "H4 The Restoration of Axeoth" thread. We'd love any feedback, but especially yours. We've found that the first two maps of the Warlords campaign are reasonable in difficulty as far as the neutral stacks, but after that we're going to have to increase stack numbers since heroes will be pretty strong. AI will likely need a boost in all maps :D

But the feedback doesn't need to be for Warlords, any thoughts on Masters of the Elements (played on WoW version) would be super helpful :D

The campaigns should also be fine under Equilibris (but not the mini-mod version).

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby cjleeagain » Feb 2 2022, 18:39

Thanks for replying iliveinabox05!

I should tweak my comments. Although I have not finished the first maps on the Tarnum knight (underworld conquest) nor Tarnum wizard campaigns, it's not necessarily because they are hard. In fact, most neutral battles are easy.

However, a few battles proved to be powerful bottlenecks.

One problem with scenario design is when you are facing a teleporting opponent. Tarnum knight was up against devils and Tarnum wizard was up against toxic/ Evil sorceresses.

Heroes Ultimate allows these sorceresses to do strike and return teleportation. That's really incredibly overpowered. Imagine 115hp harpies that have magic mirror and can teleport across the entire battlefield to your back row to hammer your heroes and then fly back to safety in their own back row. When enemies like that are on the battlefield, you don't have many choices for hero development - everyone has got to get up to at least Expert Combat to even have slight hope of survival.

Now that you have alerted me to the Heroes Chronicles being for WoW, I am going to try replaying them again!
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby ByteBandit » Feb 2 2022, 18:48

You may want to go back and download the current fixed versions first. They are in the same place where you got the ones you have now. We've fixed a lot of things already compared to the ones you've had for a week or so. They should be playing somewhat better now. But that's for the WoW versions. I don't know how they play with Ultimate or anything along those lines.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Feb 2 2022, 19:07

cjleeagain wrote: Feb 2 2022, 18:39 Thanks for replying iliveinabox05!

I should tweak my comments. Although I have not finished the first maps on the Tarnum knight (underworld conquest) nor Tarnum wizard campaigns, it's not necessarily because they are hard. In fact, most neutral battles are easy.

However, a few battles proved to be powerful bottlenecks.

One problem with scenario design is when you are facing a teleporting opponent. Tarnum knight was up against devils and Tarnum wizard was up against toxic/ Evil sorceresses.

Heroes Ultimate allows these sorceresses to do strike and return teleportation. That's really incredibly overpowered. Imagine 115hp harpies that have magic mirror and can teleport across the entire battlefield to your back row to hammer your heroes and then fly back to safety in their own back row. When enemies like that are on the battlefield, you don't have many choices for hero development - everyone has got to get up to at least Expert Combat to even have slight hope of survival.

Now that you have alerted me to the Heroes Chronicles being for WoW, I am going to try replaying them again!

No problem of course! And yeah, from what you described in your post, it definitely seemed like it was the new abilities on those creatures that was causing issues, haha :)

The campaigns will still be pretty easy, as we've tried to keep them as close to their H3 counterparts as possible, but we are planning to make some updates so that normal is at least a little challenging, and then the higher difficulty settings scale appropriately.

I'm actually going to be working through the final Warlords of the Wasteland map tonight. I've been playing the H3 version first, followed by the H4 version, map by map to make sure they are as close as possible. I've been fixing things as I go, and after this first play through I will go back and work on the difficulty settings.

Definitely let us know in the H4 The Restoration of Axeoth thread what you think about them! Any feedback, whether good or bad, will help us make these even better ports for H4.

One thing you did ask which we can answer, was why the Preserve towns also had access to Evil Sorceresses. This is because, in the first two maps, you are going against the Plane of Air. We didn't have too many choices for units that fit under the Air element, but felt Evil Sorceresses could fit the bill for one of the higher level units. The reason you as the player also have access to them here and there throughout the campaign is because we needed a replacement for Enchanters, and here again Evil Sorceresses felt like the best fit, haha :D

Your feedback on these things would also be very helpful if you have better suggestions for units we could use instead, especially in the Masters of the Elements campaign. We do have reasoning for the chosen units, so definitely let us know and we can lay out our thoughts and see what we can all come up with.
ByteBandit wrote: Feb 2 2022, 18:48 You may want to go back and download the current fixed versions first. They are in the same place where you got the ones you have now. We've fixed a lot of things already compared to the ones you've had for a week or so. They should be playing somewhat better now. But that's for the WoW versions. I don't know how they play with Ultimate or anything along those lines.

Actually, the ones he probably got were packaged up with Ultimate by Nimostar (as well as updated by Nimostar), so He'll definitely want to grab updated copies from our thread here in the H4 forum.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby cjleeagain » Feb 6 2022, 17:46

Hi iliveinabox05


I have been playing the first two maps featuring Tarnum as a knight (underworld conquest). I played using Winds of War after you told me the scenarios are not designed for

Map 1 was not difficult. I am only an average player, so I should think that good players would find it boringly easy. However I think you have to be cautious about increasing the difficulty setting. This is because so many battles, especially the last battle that is the map objective, feature Devils. Since Devils teleport and like to make a beeline for your heroes, it is extremely difficult to keep your heroes alive.

No game breaking issues found on Map 1.



Map 2 had some issues that prevented me continuing the campaign.

To go through in the order in which I found problems with the map:

Treasure chest at 80, 24 practically next to your starting heroes. Treasure not defined (I believe?). So the chest can give a low level reward. This results in me getting Cloak of Warding literally before 10am in the morning of the first day of this scenario.

IE, within a few steps, my heroes had inadvertently picked up the Cloak of Warding, which is required to pass this mission.

(The Cloak is also obtained via quest hut, but that quest is very boring).

Game hung three times in the course of playing this map. I don't know if it is the map at fault; just mentioning.

Garrison at 25,91 is superfluous. Because the square at 22,84 is not passable. So if you defeat the garrison, you just enter a blank area that doesn't contain anything apart from two resources. (Is it supposed to contain something important, or is it supposed to grant access to Green's area?)

Demon dwelling is guarded by a quest guard at 126,59. However, it is accessible from the square at 126,58, so that has to be blocked off.

the 50-EvilEye quest takes too long. Even though I liberated my first Evil Eye dwelling pretty fast, at the growth rate of evil eyes, come on! This scenario is easy enough that my secondary heroes defeated the enemy so quickly that I almost didn't have enough xp left on the map for getting my heroes to level 10!

This map is so low in creatures and experience, that I almost couldn't get my three main heroes (Tarnum's party) from level 6 to 10. The problem was that the mapmakers sent me messages that I should hire more heroes to defend the castle from attack, so I was expecting portal invasions and what not. I quickly hired two other heroes and leveled them up to 7 and 8 respectively to defend my home area. This resulted in a lot of difficulty in getting Tarnum's party all to level 10.

I also notice I started with an ally, Purple. I am not sure what Purple is doing and the storyline never referred to them. Possibly it is a mistake to ally with them. It makes a lot more sense having them as enemies.

Because I wasn't sure if mapmakers really wanted me to ally with Purple, at first I didn't do some of the things I could have easily done:

1) I had picked up the Cloak of Warding earlier from a treasure chest, so I could easily have used my Town Gate to teleport to purple's castle, and from there use the Cloak of Warding to open access to the Red Keymaster's tent.

2) I could take out Green pretty early on once I got hold of the Town Gate spell and teleported to Purple's castle. Green is very weak.

In the the second month, with not even 30 Evil Eyes in two dwellings, I decided not to wait anymore. I used the Cloak of Warding that I got from a treasure chest, unlocked the Red Keymaster's tent, and finished this map.

Near the end of this mission, when I unlocked the quest guard at (60,133) (the Archangel quest), they reference a red orb supposed to be just after the quest guard. But I can't see that anywhere.

And then I got into a fight with a level 10 Fireguard. But by that point I had given up my Shackles of War to fulfill a quest. So how can I fight the enemy? He fled to Scythe. Which as the cheat code nwcprometheus tells us, is an inaccessible town. I tried winning it with nwcares so that he didn't have time to run. And yes, he is holding the Scarab.

So from my experience, Map 2 has a bunch of bugs that need to be addressed.
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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Feb 7 2022, 0:13

cjleeagain wrote: Feb 6 2022, 17:46 Hi iliveinabox05


I have been playing the first two maps featuring Tarnum as a knight (underworld conquest). I played using Winds of War after you told me the scenarios are not designed for

Hello again CJLee! Great feedback, much appreciated.

I responded to all of your findings over in our thread here.

The download links for the current versions of these campaigns are all in the original post in the same thread here.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby Pyroxene » Feb 7 2022, 3:07

I'm currently playing the Gathering Storm campaign on the newly-released Ultimate mod. The mod has shaken up things and made gameplay interesting, though I wouldn't necessarily agree with some of the thematic changes (why is Ghastly Fate - a spell that reanimates Poltergeists aka Ghosts - a GM Order and not Death spell?).

PS I tried the Masters of the Elements campaign but the game crashes in the 4th or 5th map, while playing on Ultimate. I didn't actually play, but rather skipped through the scenarios using the win scenario cheat (was doing this to ensure the campaign was bug-free, which it apparently wasn't). This problem didn't occur in the Warlords of the Wasteland campaign though.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby Pyroxene » Feb 7 2022, 3:37

Just tested the Masters of the Elements campaign on Equilibrius mod and the scenarios worked perfectly fine there. So its an issue with the Ultimate mod.

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby iLiVeInAbOx05 » Feb 7 2022, 6:46

Pyroxene wrote: Feb 7 2022, 3:37 Just tested the Masters of the Elements campaign on Equilibrius mod and the scenarios worked perfectly fine there. So its an issue with the Ultimate mod.

Hey there! Thanks for taking a look at the h4 Chronicles campaigns. If you get the chance to do an actual play through, please let us know any feedback you may have! They were created for WoW or Equilibris, and will be getting a mini mod version once we complete them all and get them tested to clear out any bugs :)

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Re: Heroes IV Ultimate edition v5 with Succubi, etc.

Postby NimoStar » Feb 24 2022, 0:01

Masters of the Elements campaign has been fixed for upcoming V6 of the ULTIMATE edition, so all campaigns should be playable.

And stop crying about sorceress ;) these campaigns are actually quite easy.

Sorceress are the lvl4 unit with least weekly HP by far and don't have very effective defenses either (no magic immunity, resistance, nor block).

Even if Ultimate Sorceress attacks you in melee, you have retaliation before they return. Basically they suicide.


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